Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[theefaith]

Mary believed God!

Lk 1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

why does it not include “and it was counted To her as righteous”?

 

[theefaith]

There is only "one baptism" Ephesians 4:5 (nothing to replace).

Water baptism is only practice symbolizing being crucified and raised from the dead with Christ, and a way of spreading the good news of salvation through Christ Jesus.

where does the Bible say this nonsense? Not gal 3:27

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So your idea that sin is forever taken away is merely an illusion or fiction.

Legally, the believer's sin guilt is removed.
If that were not true then it WOULD be required that a person take a whole bath and not just wash their feet every single time they sin. John 13:10

 

[theefaith]

I believe Ephesians 4:5 is referring to the one baptism we need to be concerned with because it is our responsibility to partake of, and to do so upon others (if God grants us such opportunities) (Which is a part of the faith). Spirit baptism is something GOD does upon all believers when we first are saved by Jesus Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 12:13).

who is saved?

justified in Gods grace from the sacraments not saved until the hour of death

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!

 

[theefaith]

Slow down and just read very slowly 1 Corinthians 1:17 several times in prayer.

Paul like all apostles was sent to teach and to baptize Matt 28:19

simply says he was sent primarily to preach

Jn 3:5 what’s the water for?

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

they did not go about preaching “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior”!

baptismal regeneration is the initiation into the new covenant church the kingdom of God!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[theefaith]

Slow down and just read very slowly 1 Corinthians 1:17 several times in prayer.

Read 1 cor 13:2 very slowly several times

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

And also

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Legally, the believer's sin guilt is removed.
If that were not true then it WOULD be required that a person take a whole bath and not just wash their feet every single time they sin. John 13:10

Using one verse at the expense of others is what I call “Laser Beam Theology.” You are focusing a laser beam on a spot in the Bible that appears to be true all on it's own (from our own perspective or thinking), but when we examine our interpretation of a verse in light of other Scripture verses, and those other verses contradict that interpretation, then we simply must let that false interpretation go. For example: I have talked with self professing Christians who claim God literally creates evil directly based on Isaiah 45:7 (Based on our modern understanding of the word evil). This again is Laser Beam Theology. They are reading this verse out of context to the rest of the Bible about how God is good, fair in His justice, and how God did not directly create the devil, and or forces of evil. This word is an archaic or older word from the King James Bible. It's still a true word, it just had a different meaning. The evil mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 would be accurately understand as misfortune.

King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Evil

But the point ultimately here is that we cannot ignore other verses that appear to contradict your theology. I provided many verses that appears to contradict your view of things here.

Anyways, Jesus also said for them that they need to continue to wash their feet. Why? Because that represents our walk with God.
We need to partake of the Spirit and cleanse ourselves via the Spirit by the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). This is a part of our eternal life (See: Romans 8:13, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

 

[Marymog]

William Tyndale - Wikipedia

Before the time of the Gutenberg press William Tyndale was smuggling hand written copies of the New Testament all around Europe.
He was killed for his efforts.
The whole story about the Bible and Catholics goes south pretty quick.
Since back in the day Church and state were bed fellows so sometimes it is hard to put a finger on the guilty party.
But the Church or the Catholic heads of state killed people by the tens of thousands and that is not counting the witch hunts and inquisitions or the Thirty Year War. There is no question about the Church killing people, the only question was the topic of the day.

Catholic Bibles were written in Latin so most could not read them and they were definitely not distributed to the Public. It was the Protestants that made the first effort to get the Word of God to the people. Here is a list of the more well known Protestant martyrs associated with the Protestant Reformation.

List of Protestant martyrs of the English Reformation - Wikipedia.

Oh geez.....Tyndale was killed for heresy and not for smuggling bibles or translating them to English. I am not saying he should have been killed for that but you got your facts wrong and even the link you provided does not say that he was killed for smuggling hand written copies of the New Testament. Did you even read the link YOU provided as PROOF? Tyndale not only departed from the teachings of The Church but he departed from the teachings of some of the original Reformers. He was not liked by many because of his CLEAR heresies.

You are right that The Church and the State were involved in killing people for heresy. It should not have happened. Protestants killed other Protestants for heresy also. It shouldn't have happened.

Bibles were not written in Latin in an effort to keep people from reading them. Very few people could read at the time. Latin was only widely spoken in the west. The Bible was translated into Latin in late antiquity because, at that time, Latin was the common tongue of the western Roman Empire.

Get your facts right instead of giving your opinions.

 

[Marymog]

It would be great if everybody received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in power at water baptism, but that's just not what happens. We don't teach that anymore so there is no faith present to solicit that outpouring of the Spirit. Now the Spirit in you is just a head knowledge thing. You know it's there, and that's all.

The men that taught you that not everyone receives the Holy Spirit at water baptism did not tell you about Mark 1:10 and Acts 2:38. You should read the bible for yourself sometime and stop relying on the elders of your church

Run from those men that are your teachers.....

 

[ScottA]

where does the Bible say this nonsense? Not gal 3:27

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2:11-12​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible teaches that repentance is necessary for salvation.
For Jesus says, “I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3) (NKJV).

A Biblical Case For Repentance

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" or the Sinner’s Prayer (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).


Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follows true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

I believe repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (of which is shown in the verses I quoted from my previous post here). We are to call upon the name of the Lord (Whereby our past sins will be washed away).

 

[theefaith]

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2:11-12​

changed you’re tune
Baptism is symbolic to
Now baptism is real?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

Some Christians hold to the belief that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism. I recently held to this belief but I reverted back to my old position that we are to water baptize others and be water baptized.

Spirit baptism happens the moment one places their trust in Jesus and His death and physical resurrection. One cannot be a believer unless they have been baptized into the body of Christ by the Spirit.

Water baptism comes afterward and is also called believers baptism. It is simple obedience to jesus and is a public declaration of our commitment to follow HIm.

 

[ScottA]

changed you’re tune
Baptism is symbolic to
Now baptism is real?

I am not sure what you mean, that's not very clear.

I have not changed my tune, nor will I against what is true. Water baptism simply points to the baptism of Christ which is with the Holy Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

Spirit baptism happens the moment one places their trust in Jesus and His death and physical resurrection. One cannot be a believer unless they have been baptized into the body of Christ by the Spirit.

Water baptism comes afterward and is also called believers baptism. It is simple obedience to jesus and is a public declaration of our commitment to follow HIm.

so “water baptism” the Christian sacrament of baptism ain’t real???

 

[theefaith]

I am not sure what you mean, that's not very clear.

I have not changed my tune, nor will I against what is true. Water baptism simply points to the baptism of Christ which is with the Holy Spirit.

then you’re back to baptism again is not real!

explain gal 3:27

 

[Ronald Nolette]

so “water baptism” the Christian sacrament of baptism ain’t real???

Of course it is real. I never said otherwise!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ah, I found it on my Google documents.
Praise the Lord!

The Catholic church forbidden the regular people from reading or studying the Holy Bible on their own. This rule within the Catholic church only increased into the Middle Ages and after, which also included the restriction on a person translating the Holy Scriptures into their native tongue. This later turned out to having them become burned if they possessed the Scriptures.

Proof?

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned..."

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to "...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence." For this "heresy" Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council's decree "Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River."

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Catholic church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

I do have another source for how the Bible was restricted by the Catholic Church involving others.
In this forum source, they provide Catholic source quotes, as well.

Source:
Was Bible possesion banned by the Catholic Church
This restriction of the Bible all plays into why they wanted to stop the translation of the King James Bible (Which was the first Bible that was to go out to the common man on a massive scale).

This post is filled with so much ignorant nonsense and historical revisionism, it’s difficult to know just where to begin.
Here goes . . .

The Catholic Church never “banned” the reading of Scripture. What you fail to understand is that during the centuries that YOU listed – up to EIGHTY-FIVE PER CENT (85%) of the general population was functionally illiterate. This is WHY there were so many works of religious art commissioned by the Church during this time – to help TEACH the masses that couldn’t read.

Secondly – during this same time period – ALL BOOKS, including Bibles, were HAND-WRITTEN. They were extremely expensive to transcribe and took years to complete a single copy. For this reason, Bibles were chained to pulpits to keep them from being stolen.

Because of this, many UNAUTHORIZED copies and translations were transcribed and paid for by rich people who hired scribes who were NOT qualified Biblical scholars. The result was confusion caused by incorrect transcriptions and spurious translations that perverted the Gospel message. As the guardian of the Holy Deposit of the faith – the Church took action by banning the ownership of these spurious bibles.

In effect – the ONLY genuine copies came from authorized Church scribes. Since the MAJORITY of the general public was functionally illiterate anyway, this didn’t have much of an effect on MOST people since virtually the ENTIRE Bible is read aloud during Mass in a 3-year cycle.

With the advent of the printing press in the 15th century and the looming Protestant Revolt in the 16th century, the Bible would up taking a beating when Martin Luther, John Calvin and others took it upon themselves to EDIT the Scriptures and deleted 7 OT Books, along with parts of Daniel and Esther. Men like Luther also wanted to remove a few Books from the NT , including Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation because they did not conform with some of his teachings. Had it not been for the influence of some of his contemporaries like Philip Melanchton – YOUR Protestant Bible would be A LOT thinner . . .

Those are the historical FACTS.
I suggest you do some homework next time before you post . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh geez.....Tyndale was killed for heresy and not for smuggling bibles or translating them to English. I am not saying he should have been killed for that but you got your facts wrong and even the link you provided does not say that he was killed for smuggling hand written copies of the New Testament. Did you even read the link YOU provided as PROOF? Tyndale not only departed from the teachings of The Church but he departed from the teachings of some of the original Reformers. He was not liked by many because of his CLEAR heresies.

You are right that The Church and the State were involved in killing people for heresy. It should not have happened. Protestants killed other Protestants for heresy also. It shouldn't have happened.

Bibles were not written in Latin in an effort to keep people from reading them. Very few people could read at the time. Latin was only widely spoken in the west. The Bible was translated into Latin in late antiquity because, at that time, Latin was the common tongue of the western Roman Empire.

Get your facts right instead of giving your opinions.

No my facts are 100% true.
Heresy is a matter of perspective.
People can call each other heretics. And it does not matter if it is Catholics calling other religions heretical and even the Protestants call each other heretics. But they do not torture women, cut off parts their bodies and force feed them to their children. There was an evil in the Catholic Church that is unequaled in Christianity.
Did the Catholic Church make every mistake possible, from corruption to atrocities? Did not only the Catholic Church but those that followed learn from the horrors of the Catholic Church. I think they did. The Catholic Church as well as Catholics are a little different depending on what country they are in. But it does not matter what country the Catholic Church is in, it is better today than ever. But it makes no sense for a Catholic to bring up the past because it is going to go south very quickly.

They need to stop the celibacy requirement for the clergy because it has done nothing but bring disgrace to the Church. They need to drop the supremacy thing and focus on the future.

Tyndale not only departed from the teachings of The Church but he departed from the teachings of some of the original Reformers.

How much do you know about the reform? You have to know something. Martin Luther did not intend to start his own church, he intended to reform the Catholic Church. And for the lack of better words....it got away from him. As the Protestants fractured Christ's church it was typical for them not to agree with each other.

Bibles were not written in Latin in an effort to keep people from reading them. Very few people could read at the time. Latin was only widely spoken in the west. The Bible was translated into Latin in late antiquity because, at that time, Latin was the common tongue of the western Roman Empire.

You are funny! The Catholic Church was very much against the people having Bibles. They never handed out Latin Bibles. And how long did it take them to translate their Bible into English and offer it to the congregations.

The history of Tyndale smuggling Bibles into several countries is not hard to find.
Ever heard of the Tyndale Bible....

 

[ScottA]

then you’re back to baptism again is not real!

explain gal 3:27

With that response, we may have to pause and define "real" for those who think that "real" is limited to the things of this world.

Anyway...there is no mention of water here:

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
​

So, it is as I said, water baptism only points to the baptism of Christ (which is the only "real" baptism into the kingdom of God).