Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Johann]

Yes and the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life.

Correct.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In what sense was Rahab justified?

She was justified eternally the same way abraham was. By faith

she later showed her faith by what she did.

she is not going to be in heaven because she did a work..

she will be in heaven because she had faith

her work was a product of that faith

 

[Johann]

Yes and the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life.

CONTEXTUAL INSIGHTS INTO JAMES 2:14-26

This section of James has caused major theological controversy. This comes not so much from the passage, contextually understood, but from our theological presuppositions and dogmatic systems of proof-texted, western theology.

James and Paul do not contradict, but complement one another. The seeming contradiction comes from a misunderstanding of (1) the purpose; (2) the recipients; and (3) definitions of key words (i.e., faith, works) of the NT books of Romans and James.

Paul is writing to Jews who believe that they are right with God on the basis of (1) their race (nationality) and (2) their keeping the law of Moses (legalism).

Paul speaks of entering into the Christian life. He uses Abraham's life as an OT example of being declared right with God before circumcision and before the Mosaic Law (cf. Gen. 15:6), based solely on God's initiating grace and the appropriate faith response (cf. Rom. 4:3; Gal. 3:6).
James is writing to church people who are making Christianity a creed instead of a lifestyle (antinomians or intellectualists, Jewish Gnostics).

These folks are asserting orthodoxy as the basis for their assurance of salvation. The books of James and 1 John assert that daily love in action is not an option for Christians, but is the evidence of their being Christians. For James, "works" are not Jewish rules, but love in action (cf. 1 Corinthians 13).

Paul and James are not giving two ways of salvation, but two aspects of one salvation.

Paul speaks of the beginning of Abraham's walk of faith (cf. Genesis 15), and James speaks of its ongoing characteristics (birth of Isaac versus offering of Isaac, cf. Genesis 22).

It is not "faith or works" but "faith and works."

Not only is faith without works dead, but works without faith is also dead (cf. Matt. 7:21-23; John 15:1-6). Being a carnal, weak, baby Christian is possible (cf. 1 Cor. 3:1-3, 10-15; Heb. 5:11-14), but it is the exception, not the norm.
John Calvin said "faith alone justifies but the faith which justifies is not alone."

This section functions as an encouragement to active faith. In a sense it is a passage on assurance— not assurance as a doctrine, but as a lifestyle. Assurance is surely a biblical truth, but only in connection with daily Christlikeness, not systematic theology! We are saved to serve. Service is the evidence of salvation. It is never the means, but it is the goal, the fruit (cf. Eph. 2:8-9 and 10). This truth is much needed in our day of
easy believism
assurance as a denominational theological tenet (usually given as a dogmatic statement at the beginning of the Christian life)

The entire book of James deals with the practical issue of how believers use their resources (physical and spiritual) on behalf of the Kingdom. Allocation of physical resources reveals the heart!

This is an important theological summary statement (cf. vv. 20 and 26). In his Study Guide Commentary on James, Curtis Vaughan sees these three summary statements as constituting the main outline:
=genuine faith is not an empty claim (vv. 14-17)
=genuine faith is not mere acceptance of a creed (vv. 18-20)
=genuine faith is faith that produces an obedient life (vv. 21-26, p. 56)

Utley.

I think you, and @Titus are thinking biblically since Christianity is not a mere mental intellectual gnosis, but epignosis-in the heart/Lev-in the sphere of the Holy Spirit-where it really matters.

Everything else-void of the Spirit-is intellectualism and Gnosticism.
Shalom.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To all those who erroneously claim baptism is a "work". A work of what? Is teaching others a work? Is/was preaching a "work"? Was the laying on of the apostle's hands a "work"? Is believing with the fleshly mind or confessing with the mouth a "work"? Is praying a "work"?

Everything done with the physical body requires effort, a "work" of some kind. God left his "work" on earth to be done by man and all these "works" so-called are necessary and required.

a work is done to earn a wage (see romans 4)

if we do the work of being baptized to earn salvation

we are trying to earn salvation.

salvation is by grace through faith. not of works..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Doing good works when they are in accordance with Gods commandments like obedience to parents or telling the truth is a good work.
But doing good works never can save a person, Ephesians 2:8-9.
The only works that are involved in ones salvation is when one does those good works as their motive of belief in Jesus and a desire to submit to Gods will, Matthew 7:21-23.

The wicked or lost alien sinners do good works sometimes but doing good cannot get one to heaven.

This also is a false gospel known as meriting salvation by doing more good in this life than wrong(sin).

Many also believe that if they just live a "good enough" life that God will allow them into heaven.

That would be earning your salvation by doing God works.

Only when one completely chooses to submit his life to God by forsaking all willfull sin.
And give His life to Christ by believing in all that Jesus is and taught in His gospel can then recieve Gods grace and mercy.

Doing good works can be for yourself or others and have nothing to do with giving God glory, serving God. The Bible never teaches one can be saved by faith alone nor does the Bible teach one can be saved by good works alone.

An atheist can do good works but his good works cannot earn him Gods saving grace.

The Bible teaches Gods plan for saving man is as follows,

Ephesians 2:8-9,
- For by grace(Gods part) you have been saved through faith(mans part) and NOT of yourselves(cannot be earned through good works) it is the gift(cannot be earned) of God,
not of works(meritorious works) lest anyone should boast(men when boast of their works if they earned themselves salvation)

Grace is conditional based upon an OBEDIENT faith!!! James 2:24, Acts 10:35, 1John 2:2-5

- now by this we know God IF we keep His commandments, he who says I know God and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him
but whoever obeys His word truly the love of God is perfected in him, by this(doing good works) we know that we are in God

Therefore no amount of good works without belief in Jesus can be effective in receiving Gods grace.
Likewise no amount of belief apart from obedience to Gods commandments can be effective in receiving Gods grace.

God requires both in His plan of saving mankind.

I have never taught or believed that my obedience to God saved me by merit.
The Bible teaches against this.
That is just another false gospel from the devil!

Scripture calls our works filthy rags.

what does this mean?

 

[Johann]

She was justified eternally the same way abraham was. By faith

she later showed her faith by what she did.

she is not going to be in heaven because she did a work..

she will be in heaven because she had faith

her work was a product of that faith

So it was with Rahab. She was already a believer-was she?

(but we are not sure when this happened in time) when she risked her life when she protected the two spies. Here actions at this time were a demonstration of her faith.

When did she come to faith? I'm not so sure about that. By her own words, it was not just Rahab, but many of those of her people who had heard of the exodus — the parting the Red Sea, the defeat of Israel's enemies — were terrified by the arrival of the Israelites. But they did not believe. They were like the demons in James 2, who knew the truth and shuddered, but did not trust in God.

Rahab went further. She knew that the God of Israel was great, and she entrusted herself to Him, through these Israelites. The long and the short of it is that her actions in protecting the spies demonstrated her faith, but we are told little more. It is clear, however, that she is one of the household of faith.
J.

 

[Johann]

Scripture calls our works filthy rags.

what does this mean?

Prior to regeneration. It should not be like that AFTER regeneration.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So it was with Rahab. She was already a believer-was she?

(but we are not sure when this happened in time) when she risked her life when she protected the two spies. Here actions at this time were a demonstration of her faith.

When did she come to faith? I'm not so sure about that. By her own words, it was not just Rahab, but many of those of her people who had heard of the exodus — the parting the Red Sea, the defeat of Israel's enemies — were terrified by the arrival of the Israelites. But they did not believe. They were like the demons in James 2, who knew the truth and shuddered, but did not trust in God.

Rahab went further. She knew that the God of Israel was great, and she entrusted herself to Him, through these Israelites. The long and the short of it is that her actions in protecting the spies demonstrated her faith, but we are told little more. It is clear, however, that she is one of the household of faith.
J.

yes, amen.

but she did not receive the justification of her sins based on that work..

we can ot misinterpret James as saying this is what happened.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Prior to regeneration. It should not be like that AFTER regeneration.
J.

yes

but I believe we can do works of filthy rags even after.

what is our motivation.

 

[St. SteVen]

ditto faith without works is an oxymoron and its a dead faith not a living faith. Paul agrees since we are saved by grace through faith with the purpose of good works which God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10.

Exactly.
Good works, or good fruit, is the EVIDENCE, not the substance of saving faith.

 

[atpollard]

Scripture calls our works filthy rags.

what does this mean?

this (pronoun):

1. the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned
2. what is stated in the following phrase, clause, or discourse
3. this time or place
4. the one nearer or more immediately under observation or discussion
5. the one more recently referred to

filthy rags (וּכְבֶגֶד עִדִּים): H899 & H5708

• [H899] beged, behg'-ed; from H898; a covering, i.e. clothing; also treachery or pillage:—apparel, cloth(-es, ing), garment, lap, rag, raiment, robe
• [H5708] ʻêd, ayd; from an unused root meaning to set a period (compare H5710, H5749); the menstrual flux (as periodical); by implication (in plural) soiling:—filthy.
• [Isaiah 64:6 NKJV] "But we are all like an unclean [thing], And all our righteousnesses [are] like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."
• “Filthy rags is ‘a garment of menstruation’; bodily discharges were considered a defilement because they were the ‘outflow’ of a sinful, fallen human nature. So, even what we might consider to be in our favour, righteous acts, partake of the defilement of fallenness.” (Motyer)
• “If preachers knew properly the meaning of this word, would they make such a liberal use of it in their public ministry?” (Clarke)
• “The expression, ‘filthy rags,’ in the Hebrew, is one which we could not with propriety explain in the present assembly. As the confession must be made privately and alone before God, so the full meaning of the comparison is not meant for human ear.” (Spurgeon)
• “Sirs, there is sin in our prayers; they need to be prayed over again. There is filth in the very tears that we shed in penitence; there is sin in our very holiness; there is unbelief in our faith; there is hatred in our very love; there is the slime of the serpent upon the fairest flower of our garden.” (Spurgeon)
• “Those that seek to be saved by their works, Luther fitly calleth the devil’s martyrs; they suffer much, and take great pains to go to hell.... We must do all righteousnesses, rest in none but Christ’s, disclaiming our own best as spotted and imperfect.” (Trapp)

 

[St. SteVen]

Amen. better become a monk and live in a cave lol. But that must also be a work too.

Right.
Not to be confused with monk fruit.

 

[Johann]

this (pronoun):

1. the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned
2. what is stated in the following phrase, clause, or discourse
3. this time or place
4. the one nearer or more immediately under observation or discussion
5. the one more recently referred to

filthy rags (וּכְבֶגֶד עִדִּים): H899 & H5708

• [H899] beged, behg'-ed; from H898; a covering, i.e. clothing; also treachery or pillage:—apparel, cloth(-es, ing), garment, lap, rag, raiment, robe
• [H5708] ʻêd, ayd; from an unused root meaning to set a period (compare H5710, H5749); the menstrual flux (as periodical); by implication (in plural) soiling:—filthy.
• [Isaiah 64:6 NKJV] "But we are all like an unclean [thing], And all our righteousnesses [are] like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."
• “Filthy rags is ‘a garment of menstruation’; bodily discharges were considered a defilement because they were the ‘outflow’ of a sinful, fallen human nature. So, even what we might consider to be in our favour, righteous acts, partake of the defilement of fallenness.” (Motyer)
• “If preachers knew properly the meaning of this word, would they make such a liberal use of it in their public ministry?” (Clarke)
• “The expression, ‘filthy rags,’ in the Hebrew, is one which we could not with propriety explain in the present assembly. As the confession must be made privately and alone before God, so the full meaning of the comparison is not meant for human ear.” (Spurgeon)
• “Sirs, there is sin in our prayers; they need to be prayed over again. There is filth in the very tears that we shed in penitence; there is sin in our very holiness; there is unbelief in our faith; there is hatred in our very love; there is the slime of the serpent upon the fairest flower of our garden.” (Spurgeon)
• “Those that seek to be saved by their works, Luther fitly calleth the devil’s martyrs; they suffer much, and take great pains to go to hell.... We must do all righteousnesses, rest in none but Christ’s, disclaiming our own best as spotted and imperfect.” (Trapp)

Excellent source.
J.

 

[Titus]

Scripture calls our works filthy rags.

what does this mean?

Scripture calls our works filthy rags.

what does this mean?

Isaiah 64:6
When you obey Jesus' commandments in His gospel do you really think God thinks those are filthy rags used from menstruation?
This teaching comes out of churches that deny good works please God.
Good works that are required by God are the commandments in the new testament NOT the works of the old Mosiacal law.

A false teacher taught you Isaiah 64:6, he twisted the context to fit a modern day false gospel known as faith apart from works salvation.

The Jews works here were not pleasing to God because the Bible teaches all kinds of works!

There are works of the devil,
Works of men,
Works of merit
Works of righteousness
Works of God
Works of the unrighteous
Etc.

The Jews works in Isaiah,

Look at the context!
The Jews were doing their own works not Gods works!
They were no longer living in submission to Gods authority but living in rebellious sin!
Their works were evil! They were lost!

Isaiah 64:5-6,
- you meet him who rejoices and does righteousness
Who remembers God in Your ways
God is indeed angry for we(jews) have  sinned IN THESE WAYS WE CONTINUE
AND WE NEED TO BE SAVED

But we are all like an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousness(self righteousness) are like filthy rags to God

we all fade as a leaf and our SINS(THEIR WORKS) like the wind have taken us away

The context is wicked works of iniquity is like filthy rags to God.


Do you really believe that when you obey Jesus by doing His commandments like loving your enemies that God sees your works and love for others as filthy rags of menstruation?

Faith only doctrine perverts the book of Isaiah to promote their false teaching.

 

[Johann]

yes

but I believe we can do works of filthy rags even after.

what is our motivation.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

this (pronoun):

1. the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned
2. what is stated in the following phrase, clause, or discourse
3. this time or place
4. the one nearer or more immediately under observation or discussion
5. the one more recently referred to

filthy rags (וּכְבֶגֶד עִדִּים): H899 & H5708

• [H899] beged, behg'-ed; from H898; a covering, i.e. clothing; also treachery or pillage:—apparel, cloth(-es, ing), garment, lap, rag, raiment, robe
• [H5708] ʻêd, ayd; from an unused root meaning to set a period (compare H5710, H5749); the menstrual flux (as periodical); by implication (in plural) soiling:—filthy.
• [Isaiah 64:6 NKJV] "But we are all like an unclean [thing], And all our righteousnesses [are] like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."
• “Filthy rags is ‘a garment of menstruation’; bodily discharges were considered a defilement because they were the ‘outflow’ of a sinful, fallen human nature. So, even what we might consider to be in our favour, righteous acts, partake of the defilement of fallenness.” (Motyer)
• “If preachers knew properly the meaning of this word, would they make such a liberal use of it in their public ministry?” (Clarke)
• “The expression, ‘filthy rags,’ in the Hebrew, is one which we could not with propriety explain in the present assembly. As the confession must be made privately and alone before God, so the full meaning of the comparison is not meant for human ear.” (Spurgeon)
• “Sirs, there is sin in our prayers; they need to be prayed over again. There is filth in the very tears that we shed in penitence; there is sin in our very holiness; there is unbelief in our faith; there is hatred in our very love; there is the slime of the serpent upon the fairest flower of our garden.” (Spurgeon)
• “Those that seek to be saved by their works, Luther fitly calleth the devil’s martyrs; they suffer much, and take great pains to go to hell.... We must do all righteousnesses, rest in none but Christ’s, disclaiming our own best as spotted and imperfect.” (Trapp)

Yes

A better interpretation would be our works are as bloody rags, or as menstral rags.

this is what God thinks of our human good.

 

[Johann]

Yes

A better interpretation would be our works are as bloody rags, or as menstral rags.

this is what God thinks of our human good.

I don't think so-not after being regenerated and sealed with the Holy Spirit.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't think so-not after being regenerated and sealed with the Holy Spirit.
J.

we can still do human good after we are saved.

Human good vs divine good. there is a dividing line..

 

[Johann]

we can still do human good after we are saved.

Human good vs divine good. there is a dividing line..

And those who are evil can do good to their families etc.

A believer in Christ is radically different-do you want to engage upon human logic and reasoning or are you going to use Scriptures to make your point?
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And those who are evil can do good to their families etc.

That is human good. and God calls them bloody rags

A believer in Christ is radically different-do you want to engage upon human logic and reasoning or are you going to use Scriptures to make your point?
J.

yes they are radically different, that does not mean they can do good deeds out of a false pretense. or human good.

we do it all the time..

even knowing to do good and not doing it is sin.

anything not down out of love is sin.

This is not human logic. this is the simple truth

not every child of God is perfect..