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Featured Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by ReChoired, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. ReChoired

    ReChoired Active Member

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    The problem is with your "thinks", not myself. Your aprioric is quite unfounded, and undemonstrable, which is why you gave no evidence for it, and just asserted it.
     
  2. Mike Waters

    Mike Waters Well-Known Member

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    I spent a few weeks in fellowship (to the degree that I was permitted) with our local 'Church of God' (Needed Truth Brethren).
    Like others their denomination claims to be the only true Church.
    But eventually I had to face up to the fact that, if after 70 odd years of Christian commitment, I still wasn't sufficiently 'worthy' to fully share in their bread and wine remembrance service unless I joined their denomination, then there was little point in me sharing in the other 'crumbs that fell from their table'.
    Otherwise theirs was the style of worship that suited me ..... except for the fact that they were all soooo very old; and with no likelihood of attracting young converts will pass out of existence in the next decade.
     
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  3. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Just because you identify the whore in (Rev. 17) and Babylon in (Rev. 18) as the Roman Church, doesn't mean it is.

    'God's people' doesn't specifically identify them as the Church of Jesus Christ. Just like in the Old Testament, 'the church in the wilderness' is not the Church of Jesus Christ. Those people of God in the wilderness were Israel.

    The Church of Jesus Christ started in (Acts 2) with the coming of the Holy Spirit. She will continue until taken out of the way with the Holy Spirit. (2 Thess. 2:7) (Rev. 3:10) The Church is not on the earth from (Rev. 4:1-21:9).

    On the earth at that time is an apostate religious system consisting of all denominations of the former Church. And probably many that were never identified as the Church. You see apostasy in all churches today.

    In other words, the Roman Church today is full of believers in Christ. It has things in it that lead to apostasy of course. As do the Protestant churches. The Roman Church is not the harlot in (Revelation). Though she at that time will contribute to it as does the Protestant church.

    Stranger
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  4. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that mystical Body of Christ. Our Head is in Heaven and we His Body here on earth composed of every born-again believer on earth. The Church of Jesus Christ.

    Stranger
     
  5. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Amen and Amen
     
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  6. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    A pointless exercise. No where are we told to find the 'true church' because All Christians are the Church.

    As for membership, Jesus knows who are his. Membership of this local church or of that denomination etc is a means of identifying with those Christians and for working with them.
     
  7. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I am told I belong to the true church by the church I belong to. I believe history backs up this claim. Frankly, I have ceased to care because I am focused on loving my neighbor. At this point, I leave this area of semantics and apologies to the Vatican apologists. I consider it a war and myself, a pacifist.
     
  8. ReChoired

    ReChoired Active Member

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    You are quite mistaken. Jesus said, by the Holy Ghost through the Prophet:

    Jer_29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.​

    Jesus, is the "Head" of the True Church.

    Eph_5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

    Col_1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​

    Therefore, you are quite in error, and have not understood the first thing needed to be done. Most do not even understand where Jesus is, or even what he is now doing. They are wandering, and in much gross darkness.

    Again, you seek to try to promote 'the nebulous everywhere and nowhere church'. A gross and wicked idea of 'catholicism'.

    The True Church is visible upon the earth, with specific doctrine (David is dead asleep in the grave awaiting his resurrection, etc), specific structure (with Council, Elders, Deacons, etc) as we have already seen. The True Church has specific gifts given unto it, such as "the testimony of Jesus, which is the Spirit of Prophecy", which most do not even claim to have. The True Church as identified in Revelation 12, "keep(s) the commandments of God", unlike most of the false churches which have cast aside God's own character, clinging to their own self-righteousness or lawlessness (two sides of the same disobedient coin). The True Church as seen is called "the remnant" and as the other prophet said, comes after the sun and moon events (May 19, 1780). The True Church is the third phase in the Sanctuary as shown already, from Adam to Moses/Israel being the Outer Court (with animal sacrifices), with the Disciples/Apostles being the Holy Place (spiritual sacrifices), and the third group would be seen as the final movement, given a special name as John the Baptist was, not of the previous names before.

    True, but that says nothing about the structure of the True Church as mentioned previously. Just as there was a True Church in the days of Moses, and in the days of the Apostles, so too in these the final moments of earth's history. There is a True Church visible to the world, as it was in Jesus day, even if there are Judas' in it at present. There was a calling out of the false religious system (of Pharisees, Saducees, a generation of vipers) of Jesus day, and so too today.

    That is the false idea and wickedness of 'catholicism'. The 'nebulous everywhere and nowhere church'. Each of the denominations that carry false doctrine, a false structural system, false gifts, etc are not God's True Church, but are the harlots of their Great Whore mother, Roman Catholicism, as they teach what she tells them to speak (immortal soul/spirit theology, eternal conscious torment, sunday sacredness, consumption of alcohol, etc., etc).

    Again, there is only "One Faith", not many.

    Again, there is only "One Fold", not many.

    That which is taught by the True Church is to be "the same" throughout:

    1Co_1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    Php_3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
    Therefore, your errors are not merely little, but gross.

    The only reason that you refuse, is because you do not desire to give up your error and would have no one identify those errors, and to have each to live in error as you do, but thanks be to God, there is indeed The True Church.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The Orthodox churches would say that history backs up their claim.
     
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  10. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Then they must be ignoring the Copts
     
  11. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    The two sides of the body, united in the heart and in the Head...

    "One Body"

    790 Believers who respond to God's word and become members of Christ's Body, become intimately united with him: "In that body the life of Christ is communicated to those who believe, and who, through the sacraments, are united in a hidden and real way to Christ in his Passion and glorification."220 This is especially true of Baptism, which unites us to Christ's death and Resurrection, and the Eucharist, by which "really sharing in the body of the Lord, . . . we are taken up into communion with him and with one another."221

    Peace be with you!
     
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  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    "Among the lapsed from the Catholic Church in the turbulent post-conciliar period are those Catholics who became so disenchanted with the liturgical disarray and doctrinal unrest evident in Western Catholicism that they became converts to Eastern Orthodoxy. They found themselves influenced by the Eastern Orthodox claim to preserve the doctrinal, sacramental, and liturgical heritage of the ancient Church, and in fact, to be the historical continuation of the true Church of Jesus Christ. Those defecting from the Catholic Church found comforting Eastern Orthodoxy’s professing the doctrine of the first seven ecumenical Councils, its possession of the seven sacraments, and its sacramental and liturgical system revolving around a splendid and beautiful celebration of the Holy Divine Liturgy. Eastern Orthodoxy’s ancient hierarchical fabric of rule by patriarchs and Bishops, and its principles of the religious and monastic life characterized by ancient asceticism appeared to be further evidence of its identity with the ancient Church of the first Millennium..."
    Confronting the Claim of Eastern Orthodoxy to be the True Church - Homiletic & Pastoral Review
     
  13. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    unfortunately, Eastern Orthodox doctrine is underlined with resentment of Roman Catholicism - like fundamentalist Protestants, they bolster their claims to the Keys by the degree of distance between themselves and Catholicism

    I considered Orthodoxy, until I discovered this resentment and the fact that The many branches cannot agree with each other and that they are more in agreement with their secular government than the scriptures or tradition
     
  14. Grams

    Grams Well-Known Member

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    Well if you really read the bible, you can learn things have changed in these days.

    Jesus went to the cross for our sins,,,, and if we are sorry about them, and believe in GOD and JESUS we are
    saved.........

    There is a past ,,,, but now .......... and ages to come.........
     
  15. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Nothing new about this message
     
  16. BARNEY BRIGHT

    BARNEY BRIGHT Well-Known Member

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    How can a person know which religion is right?

    (1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men? (2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7) Ask, for example: Where does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity? Where does it say that the human soul is immortal?

    (2) Consider whether it is making known the name of God. Jesus said in prayer to God: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world.” (John 17:6) He declared: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matt. 4:10) Has your religion taught you that ‘it is Jehovah you must worship’? Have you come to know the Person identified by that name—his purposes, his activities, his qualities—so that you feel you can confidently draw close to him?

    (3) Is true faith in Jesus Christ being demonstrated? This involves appreciation of the value of the sacrifice of Jesus’ human life and of his position today as heavenly King. (John 3:36;Ps. 2:6-8) Such appreciation is shown by obeying Jesus—sharing personally and zealously in the work that he assigned to his followers. True religion has such faith that is accompanied by works.—Jas. 2:26.

    (4) Is it largely ritualistic, a formality, or is it a way of life? God strongly disapproves of religion that is merely a formalism. (Isa. 1:15-17) True religion upholds the Bible’s standard of morality and clean speech instead of weakly going along with popular trends. (1 Cor. 5:9-13; Eph. 5:3-5) Its members reflect the fruits of God’s spirit in their lives. (Gal. 5:22, 23) So, those who adhere to true worship can be identified because they sincerely endeavor to apply Bible standards in their lives not only at their places of meeting but in their family life, at their secular work, in school, and in recreation.

    (5) Do its members truly love one another? Jesus said: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) Such love reaches across racial, social, and national boundaries, drawing people together in genuine brotherhood. So strong is this love that it sets them apart as being truly different. When the nations go to war, who have enough love for their Christian brothers in other lands that they refuse to take up arms and kill them? That is what early Christians did.

    (6) Is it truly separate from the world? Jesus said that his true followers would be “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) To worship God in a manner that he approves requires that we keep ourselves “without spot from the world.” (Jas. 1:27) Can that be said of those whose clergy and other members are involved in politics, or whose lives are largely built around materialistic and fleshly desires?—1 John 2:15-17.

    (7) Are its members active witnesses concerning God’s Kingdom? Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matt. 24:14) What religion is really proclaiming God’s Kingdom as the hope of mankind instead of encouraging people to look to human rulership to solve their problems? Has your religion equipped you to share in this activity, and to do it from house to house as Jesus taught his apostles to do?—Matt. 10:7, 11-13; Acts 5:42;20:20.
     
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  17. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    The big problem with this question is that it tends to lead to proving your Church is right in the eyes of men. Not necessarily a bad thing... But the only one you have to convince is God.

    I can see no other option but to point to the Bible and EVERY verse in it. Churches tend to latch on to one truth found in a verse, but fail to see the whole story. Some point to Peter being given the keys, some point to speaking in tongues, some point God is Love... No. You have to hear the conclusion of the whole matter (that actually is in the Bible too).
     
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  18. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Active Member

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    A very simple solution, no need to get bogged down, the ekklesia is the correct term for the called out one's who gather together in the name of Christ.
    King James Bible
    For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
     
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  19. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about a Local functioning Body of believers.
    I am talking about the whole Church of Jesus Christ. The whole company of believers.
     
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  20. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    @ReChoired

    SUBJECT:-Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?


    Really, why don't you just ask-
    Do you belong to the right religious sect or denomination.
    Because that is what you appear to be saying here.

    Do you NOT believe that the whole company of believers are the Church?
     
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