Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?

[Helen]

I am told I belong to the true church by the church I belong to. I believe history backs up this claim.

So then Ron...Do you not believe that the whole collective company of believers are not The Church?

If so you have surprised me for the first time!! LOL

 

[amadeus]

You are talking about a Local functioning Body of believers.
I am talking about the whole Church of Jesus Christ. The whole company of believers.

Indeed, Helen, but even in the Local functioning Body of believers not everyone is where they need to be. For example when four meet together regularly but only 3 of them are always "in His name" so where then is Jesus?

Then again in that small select group of 12 hand picked so to speak by Jesus, there was a Judas. That was only 1/12 [8.33%] that were out of it. I would be surprised that any of our local churches groups numbering 12 or more commonly have as much a 8.33% "in His name" throughout even a single one of their services. It would not be an easy thing to measure. Trying to do so might be comparable to David provoked to number Israel without God's blessing [II Sam 24:1/I Chron 21:1]. But... how can anyone who is not regularly "in His name" be a part of His Body?

I would guess that our OP would say here that they, his church group, are still the one that is correct, even though they like others also have some distracted members. What would Jesus say?
What does he mean here?

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12

 

[ReChoired]

The Orthodox churches would say that history backs up their claim.

I am not interested in someone's opinion of history. I am asking if they can prove if they are The True Church, as identified by the scripture. And if they would read their own history, and even Truth Triumphant by B. G. Wilkinson, they would know that they are not the true church, but merely a faction of catholicism that broke away.

 

[ReChoired]

You are talking about a Local functioning Body of believers.
I am talking about the whole Church of Jesus Christ. The whole company of believers.

The Council of Acts 1-2 and 15 was not merely "local". If you think that it is, you have misread the scripture. For from there, were instruction given, even by the Holy Ghost, to all the local 'churches' in every area where Christians were. Again, this is a visible church, not a 'nebulous everywhere and nowhere church'.

Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

A 'local' church would be like those at "Colossae", or "Laodicea" -

Col_4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

 

[ReChoired]

How can a person know which religion is right?

(1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men? (2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7) Ask, for example: Where does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity? ...

That is starting from a doctrine. That is not the way the OP is asking. We do not start with a doctrine and work our way back to scripture. We start with scripture, and see if what we believe is in harmony with it. Please do not turn this thread into a WTS/JW "trin" debate.

 

[mjrhealth]

How can a person know which religion is right?

Simple, there is no "right" religion, God is not a religion, thats all man made,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is starting from a doctrine. That is not the way the OP is asking. We do not start with a doctrine and work our way back to scripture. We start with scripture, and see if what we believe is in harmony with it. Please do not turn this thread into a WTS/JW "trin" debate.

I stated what I believe the scriptures has to say what the true congregation(church) would be. I'm not trying to debate. I simply believe that the True congregation most certainly would be obedient to what Jesus taught his disciples.The True congregation would most certainly follow Jesus example and I left many scriptures that I believe to be evidence of what the true congregation would be like.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Simple, there is no "right" religion, God is not a religion, thats all man made,

The definition of religion is, a way or belief in how we worship the True God isn't it?

 

[mjrhealth]

Where talking about religions, sda catholic etc etc has noting to do with God. Cept in name only. And Moses said to Pharaoh, let my people go so they can serve me. But the people love egypt.

 

[ReChoired]

Where talking about religions ...

Not the OP. The OP is concerned specifically and only with "the True Church" (1 Timothy 3:15).

 

[mjrhealth]

Not the OP. The OP is concerned specifically and only with "the True Church" (1 Timothy 3:13).

I know what the OP is speaking of, where did you think this was going to go, when the world is filled with religions doing there own thing and claiming they are the one true church. Go ask a catholic or an SDA which is the one true church they will fight you tooth and nail and claim every scripture under the sun to make it so, even the JWs when you talk to them make that exact claim, so Jesus must of left a church. . really where did you think this was going to go.

You will never convince them they will even die for their religions just like some other religions do.

 

[Marymog]

Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?

This is the theme for this Thread.

For instance, I personally, would begin with the scriptures (KJB) and attempt to identify the true church from clear descriptions given about it, and see whether that which I belonged to was a match for what was written in biblical description.

As another example, here is how another person went about it -

Library Of Sermons 21 – The Search For The True Church – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)


What are the clear identifying marks of the true church as they are found in scripture?

1. Does the church have ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus (John 20:21-23)?

2. Does the church have a healing rite for the dying that forgives the sins of the person who is dying (James 5:14-15)?

3. Does the church meet daily for the breaking of the bread ( Matthew 6:11, Acts 2:42-46)?

4. Does the church teach that you must physically eat the flesh of Jesus and drink His blood to have life in you (John 6:53)?

5. Does the church history date back to the time of the Apostles (Acts 1:20-26)?

6. Does the church teach that individuals can suffer for the sake of the church, because Christ’s sufferings were lacking (Colossians 1:24)?

7. Does the church teach that salvation isn't a sure thing (Matthew 10:22, 2 Peter 2:20)?

8. Does the church teach that prayers in heaven go through heavenly intercessors before reaching God (Revelation 5:8, Revelation 8:3)?

9. Does the church teach that saints in heaven are alive and can appear to humans? (Mark 9:4-5, Matthew 27:52-53)

10. Does the church teach that one must physically suffer to keep from losing one’s salvation (1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Peter 2:19-21)?

11. Does the Church preach Christian unity, or division (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)?

12. Are the church's decisions ratified in heaven as well as on earth (Matthew 18:18)?

13. Is the Mother of Jesus considered to be the most blessed Woman, and do they call her blessed (Luke 1:42-48)?

14. Does the church teach that the church itself (rather than the Bible) is the pillar and bulwark of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)

15. Does the church teach that the whore of Babylon is a "great city" where Jesus Christ was crucified? (Revelation 11:8 and Revelation 17:18).

16. Does the Church teach that celibacy is a good thing? (Matthew 9:12, Luke 18:29-30, 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27, 1 Corinthians 7:32-38, Revelation 14:3-5).

17. Does the Church teach that life begins at conception? (Deuteronomy 30:19, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13, Luke 1:43-44,Luke 23: 2).

18. Does the Church teach that contraception is intrinsically evil? (Genesis 1:28, Psalm 127:3-5, Genesis 38:8-10).

19. Does the Church teach that divorce and remarriage is adulterous? (Matthew 5:3, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)

20. Does the Church teach that good works are a very necessary component of our faith? (Matthew 25:31-46, James 2:26, Colossians 1:10, Matthew 7:21, Revelation 20:12-13, Romans 2:6.

21. Does the Church teach that Jesus Christ established his earthly Kingdom on earth before He was crucified? (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 16:19).

22. Does the Church teach sexual sins are transgressions that will keep one from gaining entry into heaven, or do they now say that they are no longer sinful? (Romans 1:24-32, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Ephesians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5).

My two cents worth....Mary

 

[Marymog]

You see apostasy in all churches today.


Stranger

Hi,

Who decides what an apostasy is?

Curious Mary

 

[ReChoired]

...Go ask a catholic or an SDA which is the one true church they will fight you tooth and nail and claim every scripture under the sun to make it so, even the JWs when you talk to them make that exact claim ...

Though there be a million claimants,

... there is only one ("the"; definite article) "True Church", being "... the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15).

It is identified by scripture (Revelation 12).

It is called "the remnant" (Revelation 12:17), which is made known by the events in the earth (Acts 2:16-20), and of the heavens in Sun and Moon (Joel 2:28-32).

It is said to "keep the commandments of God" (Revelation 12:17, 14:12).

It keeps "the sabbath" (the 7th day) of the 4th commandment (Luke 23:54,56; Acts 1:2, 4:24, 13:14,27,42,44, 14:15-16, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2,24, 18:4; Hebrews 4:1-13; Revelation 1:10, 10:6, 14:7,12) in fulfillment of duty and prophecy (Isaiah 56:1-8; Acts 15:16-18; Amos 9:11-12).

It is said to have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:17), which is "the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10).

It is said to have "the faith of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 14:12).

It is visible (Colossians 1:16; 1 Corinthians 11:9; Ephesians 2:10).

It is knowable (2 Corinthians 3:2).

It is structural specific (Acts 15:22-23).

It is gift specific (Psalms 68:18; 1 Corinthians 12-14; Ephesians 4:8-16; Hebrews 5:1).

It is doctrinal specific (Acts 2:42), and such example is that it believes that king David is dead, buried, and not in Heaven, but sleeps in the grave (Acts 2:29,34, 13:36), and not nebulous, warning of false doctrine (2 Peter 2:1; Revelation 2:15), and false practices (Revelation 2:6).

It is "one faith" (Ephesians 4:5), not 'many' (Matthew 7:13b).

It is "one fold" (John 10:16; Isaiah 56:8) to which persons are "called" into (Galatians 1:6; 1 Peter 2:9), not 'many', to which persons are called "out" of (Revelation 18:4).

It is present to this very day, as Jesus has said, "... my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

It "follows the Lamb withersoever he goeth" (Revelation 14:4), for his "way ... is in the sanctuary" (Psalms 77:13; Hebrews; Revelation).

 

[ReChoired]

...You see apostasy in all churches today. ...
Stranger

That is a confusion of two things. Apostasy (Cain, Korah, Dathan, Abiram, King Saul) does not negate the True Church from being the True Church. False members do not negate the True Church either (see Judas). The True Church is not identified by its apostates (which it will have until near the very end, when God shakes out the tares and brings the harvest to the whole wheat). Likewise the false church is not identified by the true members of Jesus Christ which are presently in it (Revelation 18:3). It (True Church) is identified by its unfaltering Truth (1 Timothy 3:15; Matthew 16:18), and so likewise the false Church/es by their Babylonian "wine" (Revelation 17). Do not confuse the True system (Church; Revelation 12) with the false systems (Churches; Revelation 17), for they are distinct, they are separate, as light is from darkness.

 

[ReChoired]

@ReChoired ...

Do you NOT believe that the whole company of believers are the Church?

You are confusing two things. The Church is Visible (Revelation 12), and also has members which are Invisible (in fallen churches; Revelation 18:4). Do not mix the two (Colossians 1:16).

So likewise for the false Church - es, it/they too is/are Visible (Revelation 17), and has/have members which are Invisible (presently inside of the True Church, soon to be shaken out; Hebrews 12:27).

You are talking about the "Invisible" which no man can rightly count or see until all are called into the "One Fold" (which exists as the Visible). You are therefore neglecting the Visible.

 

[ReChoired]

1. Does the church have ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus ..

My two cents worth....Mary

That is starting as the WTS/JW member did, meaning with doctrine and working backwards. It is the wrong way to approach the OP question. Your points have plenty of faulty aprioic in it, which is also not the point of the OP.

 

[ReChoired]

People are confusing the OP matter. The OP is asking about "the one True Church" and whether you believe you are in it at present and can prove it by scripture, and is not asking whether you are a Christian. Christians can be in "the" (singular) True Church, or even ignorantly in the false church/es (plural). That is not the OP. The OP is concerned only with the identity of the True Church, not whether you can individally show whether you are a Christian or not. The OP is not placing doubt upon anyone's present status as to their personal claim to be Christian. The matters of OP are only concerned with the identity of the True Church.

For instance, Christians of this board would all agree that the system of Islam is not the True Church. There might be true followers of God in that false system, but it doesn't make that false system true simply because a true follower of God (even in their ignorance) happens to presently be in it.

So, how did or do we know that Islam is not the True Church? The same way we test every other claim.

 

[Marymog]

That is starting as the WTS/JW member did, meaning with doctrine and working backwards. It is the wrong way to approach the OP question. Your points have plenty of faulty aprioic in it, which is also not the point of the OP.

Thank you.

My point was that if your church meets all the criteria I listed it could be the one true church.

My "points" are all backed up with Scripture sooooo how can they be faulty?

Curious Mary

 

[ReChoired]

Thank you.

My point was that if your church meets all the criteria I listed it could be the one true church.

My "points" are all backed up with Scripture sooooo how can they be faulty?

Curious Mary

No, 'your points' all had references cited to try to substantiate your apriori. It is in reverse. You did not actually cite scripture, except in the instance of "great city" which was placed in actual quotations. What you did was assume your positional points and merely attempt to attach scripture references to what you already believe. You did not substantiate any of the points, which are merely the Great Whore's (Revelation 17; Roman Catholicism's) wine.

Roman Catholicism is not the true Church as they (admittedly) do not "keep the commandments of God" (Revelation 12:17, 14:12).