Do you fast?

[Matthias]

“Then John’s disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples don’t fast?’ Jesus said to them, ‘The wedding guests cannot mourn while the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days are coming when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and then they will fast.’”

(Matthew 9:14-15, NET)

For those who self-identify as disciples of Jesus, do you fast?

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Not everyone can fast. You have to study whether you can fast before attempting to. If you cannot, then someone else who can fast, should fast. I heard that fasting doesn't have to be with food. It can be fasting from anything you really like/want but not having it for a certain amount of time like 2 weeks or a month or several months.

 

[Matthias]

Not everyone can fast. You have to study whether you can fast before attempting to. If you cannot, then someone else who can fast, should fast.

Someone can fast in your place if you can’t?

I heard that fasting doesn't have to be with food. It can be fasting from anything you really like/want but not having it for a certain amount of time like 2 weeks or a month or several months.

Do you think John’s disciples were talking about food? Do you think Jesus was talking about food when he responded to them?

 

[Matthias]

“Then John’s disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples don’t fast?’ Jesus said to them, ‘The wedding guests cannot mourn while the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days are coming when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and then they will fast.’”

(Matthew 9:14-15, NET)

Thinking about the sentence I bolded, fasting appears to be connected with Jesus being taken from them.

That was then. This is now.

Death happened. (Jesus was taken from the disciples.) Resurrection happened. (Jesus is reunited with the disciples.)

Is Jesus taken from his disciples today?

”teaching them to obey everything I commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

(Matthew 28:20, NET)

What bearing, if any, does this have on the question of fasting?

 

[Matthias]

Hi Matthias,

That is no one's business.

It’s everyone‘s business who self-identifies as a disciple of Jesus.

What an individual disciple does personally may be business the disciple chooses to share with others or not.

 

[Matthias]

Not if you keep it between yourself and God, no it's not anyones business.

If you want to keep it between yourself and God then, by all means, please do.

I’m interested in discussing the topic of fasting with those who are interested in discussing it.

The question arose in my mind from an OT passage of scripture that was included in my daily Bible reading plan this morning. I’ll eventually introduce that into the discussion.

 

[Matthias]

Oh, why not go ahead and share it then Matthias? It's always good to do good and share with others, Yahava, is pleased with such sacrifices.

It’s a large subject. I’m taking it one step at a time.

It’s a conversation; not a lecture.

Here, let me share with you,

Fasting​

16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Thanks.

 

[Matthias]

What do you like to fast off, @Matthias since we are on the subject? Do you do it seasonally? Do you it per week with so many days?

Was Jesus speaking about food? If so, was he speaking only about food?

Food is, or can be, an important element in fasting but it isn’t the element in the OT passage I alluded to in post #9.

 

[Matthias]

Hello thelord's_pearl,

Would agree to that.

Does Jesus? Maybe he does but it sounds like a tradition.

“Jesus says do x, but if you can’t do x Jesus understands. Do y.“

An example of this is found in the Didache, in regard to baptism.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Someone can fast in your place if you can’t?



Do you think John’s disciples were talking about food? Do you think Jesus was talking about food when he responded to them?

Someone can fast for you, if you, for some reason, can't fast for yourself. I'm not sure if Jesus was talking about food. I don't think it was specific. Jesus fasted without food for 40 days but we're not Jesus. I think I saw a book though and how fasting works.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus always spoke primarily what the Father told him to say, and a lot of information came by and through the Old Testament, as that was the history which the Jewish people know. When Yeshua shows up on the scene, they did not desire this man (who came from God) to rule over them. They were so hard in their heart they hated him and desired to kill him, and denied him being the Son of God.

I dont understand your question by the way.

A scenario was introduced in which someone cannot do what Jesus commanded. The question concerns providing a substitute which might (or might not) be acceptable to Jesus.

I used the example of baptism. A specific method is spelled out in the Didache. A substitute is provided for those who physically are unable to be bodily immersed in running water. Does Jesus understand and approve?

Another example is communion. Some use grape juice rather than wine. Some use wine and dilute it with water. I counseled with an alcoholic who said she absolutely could not drink even a drop of wine. A substitute was offered. Does Jesus understand? Does Jesus approve?

 

[Matthias]

Someone can fast for you, if you, for some reason, can't fast for yourself.

Thank you for the clarification. This strikes me as a tradition. An ecclesiastical determination / decision, which might vary from denomination to denomination. Do you see it that way too?

I'm not sure if Jesus was talking about food. I don't think it was specific. Jesus fasted without food for 40 days but we're not Jesus. I think I saw a book though and how fasting works.

Do you think John’s disciples were?

 

[Matthias]

Matthias,

From my perspective, Jesus doesn't mind if people take communion, and he doesn't mind if people wanna get baptized by water.

What my thoughts go to is that Jesus Christ cares about the heart of man, and desires for them to come into the newness of life by and through his life, death, burial, and resurrection, which Yahava, his Father brings forth the Holy Spirit sent into the hearts of those who believe on him, and to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself.

John the baptized said - it's really the baptism of Jesus that people should look for as his baptizes in the holy spirit and fire.


Paul says, that they carry around the death of Christ always in their body, so this his life may be manifest (the Spirit of Christ).

There is a significant difference between “Jesus commands” and “Jesus doesn’t mind”.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias, why do you say that for? Do you think Jesus will be mad at you if you don't do something he says?

Disobeying a command of Jesus isn’t a matter to be taken lightly.

If Jesus commands something, what right do his disciples have to say no?

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias your profile says other faith …

Yes, with the knowledge and agreement of a Board Administrator. I’m a conscientious objector; a Christian who cannot with a clear conscience affirm the Christianity Board Statement of Faith. There are members of the board who insist that failure to make that affirmation of faith places such a person outside of the bounds of Christianity. I changed my registration from “Christian” to “Other Faith” out of consideration for them.

..l are you someone who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ? Are you also someone who can tell the difference between who Jesus is speaking to, be it the crowds or his own disciples at the time, or do you read it more like a book that is a fairy tale? Or do you believe you need to submit to everything that JEsus may have simply stated to his apostles, and disciples at the time? Or is it subjective between the individual and God?

I believe it is imperative for a disciple to obey a command given by the Messiah. To do otherwise is, in my view, to be a rebel; not a disciple.

 

[Matthias]

So you are a lawyer. Understandable, thank you for the conversation about fasting.

I’m many things (an engineer, a college professor, a disciple of Jesus, an elder and a pastor, etc.) but a lawyer isn’t one of them.

If you really want to try to understand me, Luke 6:40 is bedrock for me.

You didn't answer the other questions though, and that is fine as you believe subjectively what one should do, does everyone in the group need to follow what one says is the question?

How can you justify something that must be done - when you have writings like this

The Ministry of the Twelve
(Matthew 10:5–15; Mark 6:7–13)

1Then Jesus called the Twelvea together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and power to cure diseases. 2And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. 3“Take nothing for the journey,” He told them, “no staff, no bag, no bread, no money,b no second tunic. 4Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that area. 5If anyone does not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that town, as a testimony against them.”

6So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.

That is a commandment, and so is

Many Disciples Desert Jesus​

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

I was responding specifically to your question on my view about obeying Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

Anyway, I don't really wanna continue to talk about these things really

Then you probably shouldn’t. I respect that.

@Matthias, you seem like a very strict person,

Because I believe disciples should obey Jesus?

, but love you anyway and keep on asking the good questions out there.

See you and peace of Yahava be with you,
Matthew

Thank you.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias cool, I am uninterested as the way you decided to go just killed it for me.

I don't think you are not a Christian.

Whether anyone thinks I‘m a Christian or not isn’t of great importance to me. That’s what allowed me to come up with a creative solution to a problem which was causing an uproar in the “Christians Only” forums. It satisfied the Administrator and allows me to post with a clear conscience. The disciples of Jesus weren’t called Christians during the earthly ministry of Jesus, nor for a number of years afterward. Absence of the appellation didn’t in any way alter the fact that they were his followers.

Your personal life is subjective between God and you, and I just a man coming by to answer some questions about fasting.

Fasting is good.

It doesn't always pertain to food though as Jesus Christ came to bring forth the spirit.

Jesus was always focused on the lost, and that they would have a change of heart.

Mark 7:17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

--- Which only comes by - the Holy Spirit

You already know that, though.

Take care,
Yahava of comfort be with,
Matthew

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 34989

Later bro, can't get caught in a snare, or a spiders web. See ya.

Those who disobey the Messiah - I suggest to our readers - are caught in a snare, or a spider’s web.

 

[Matthias]

The question arose in my mind from an OT passage of scripture that was included in my daily Bible reading plan this morning. I’ll eventually introduce that into the discussion.

”They love to make a show of coming to me and asking me to take action on their behalf. ‘We have fasted before you!’ they say. ‘Why aren’t you impressed? We have done much penance, and you don’t even notice it!‘ I will tell you why! It’s because you are living for yourselves even while you are fasting. You keep right on oppressing your workers. What good is fasting when you keep fighting and quarreling? This kind of fasting will never get you anywhere with me. You humble yourselves by going through the motions of penance, bowing your heads like a blade of grass in the wind. You dress in sackcloth and cover yourselves with ashes. Is that what you call fasting? Do you really think this will please the LORD? No, the kind of fasting I want calls you to free those who are wrongly imprisoned and to stop oppressing those who work for you. Treat them fairly and give them what they earn. I want you to share your food with the hungry and to welcome poor wanderers into your homes. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need help.”

(Isaiah 58:2-7, NLT)