Do you guys support Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens in their lastest dispute over Israel and Gaza?

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Do you support Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens in this dispute?


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Wrangler

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I don't see anything wrong in what Candace said. One can be absolutely and unequivocally against Hamas and what they did, while at the same time be 100% against genocide. Secondly, she never accused Israel of genocide, she simply stated her opposition to genocide in any form.

I agree with that, don't you?
Context. Context. Context. This is what Candace said is wrong.

In context of Israel fighting a 4-front war, she made this comment obviously implying it applies to Israel. Here are the battlegrounds of this war:
  1. Gaza against Hamas
  2. Lebonan against Hezbollah
  3. West Bank against Shiite Muslims from Iran, Syria and Lebonan
  4. Islamic Jihadi propaganda

Candace Owens comments should be directed to Hamas as they have the unilateral power to stop the casualties of war (aka "genocide") by unconditionally surrendering. To couch Israel's war as "genocide" is to sucummb to Islamic Jihadi propaganda and explains why you did not answer my question in post # 3.

The goal of war is victory. This means unconditional surrender.
There was no moral pressure on America to stop until that goal was reached in WWII. Why is there this burden on Israel?
 

Wrangler

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He seems unhinged and angry,
Being attacked 50x worse than 911 and then attacked for responding tends to cause unpleasant responses.

Odd how some expect always and only cool, dispassionate analysis when the situation calls for unhinged anger. Don't blame the mama bear going berserk when you get between her and her cubs!
 
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Mr E

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Context. Context. Context. This is what Candace said is wrong.

In context of Israel fighting a 4-front war, she made this comment obviously implying it applies to Israel. Here are the battlegrounds of this war:
  1. Gaza against Hamas
  2. Lebonan against Hezbollah
  3. West Bank against Shiite Muslims from Iran, Syria and Lebonan
  4. Islamic Jihadi propaganda

Candace Owens comments should be directed to Hamas as they have the unilateral power to stop the casualties of war (aka "genocide") by unconditionally surrendering. To couch Israel's war as "genocide" is to sucummb to Islamic Jihadi propaganda and explains why you did not answer my question in post # 3.

The goal of war is victory. This means unconditional surrender.
There was no moral pressure on America to stop until that goal was reached in WWII. Why is there this burden on Israel?

She did not imply that. You inferred that. You should realize the difference.

She didn't mention Israel at all. She specifically said-- "No Government" -- which replies to ALL Governments.
 

Mr E

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Being attacked 50x worse than 911 and then attacked for responding tends to cause unpleasant responses.

Odd how some expect always and only cool, dispassionate analysis when the situation calls for unhinged anger. Don't blame the mama bear going berserk when you get between her and her cubs!

She responds with "Blessed are the peacemakers" and he snaps back with "by all means quit."

He's butt hurt.
 

Mr E

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I don't know who Candace Owens is. I used to like Ben Shapiro's content before he changed into a "reacts" channel.

Modern Israel may not be God-fearing, but it's still a high-quality nation that's been on friendly terms with most of the Western world for the last 70 years.

And Palestine... isn't any of those things. Honestly, the Palestinian culture is toxic.

I'm not in favor of genocide, but if there's a way to erase the worst parts of that culture (i.e. through education), I'd be for it.

This response is what Ben Shapiro would now classify as "faux sophistication." (What he accused Candace of). According to Ben, not being in favor of genocide is not acceptable in the context of Israel. According to Ben, carte blanche is the only acceptable position. In other words, you can't include Israel, when you say things like "I'm not in favor of genocide."
 

Wrangler

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She responds with "Blessed are the peacemakers" and he snaps back with "by all means quit."

He's butt hurt.
<sigh> Wrong again.

She implied that support for Israel is only submitting to the master of money rather than God. It is in response to this that he suggested that if money is separating her from God, by all means, she should quit.

No butt hurt. And how could he be but hurt if her comments IN CONTEXT had nothing to do with him and the war against Israel?
 

Mr E

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Yes, she most certainly did imply that. The context of the conversation was the war against Hamas. You know better than this!

No, the context was genocide. She didn't qualify it at all with respect to Israel, and in Ben's mind-- that's her unpardonable sin.

Are you in agreement with him, in suggesting that Israel is the one government that should be exempt when it comes to genocide?

Note--- I'm not accusing Israel of committing genocide, and neither did Candace. We are both saying that NO government should commit genocide. And like Candace, I'd ask-- why is that a controversial position?
 

Wick Stick

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Islamic Jihad is not a race with distinct genes to be killed off. It is a totalitarian, expansionist, supremacist ideology and it should be eliminated from the human experience.
Yes, but through education. Blowing up the Islamic University in the Gaza was actually a great step. Now re-build it, but as an institution that builds quality humans instead of turning out suicide bombers.
 
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Mr E

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Yes, but through education. Blowing up the Islamic University in the Gaza was actually a great step. Now re-build it, but as an institution that builds quality humans instead of turning out suicide bombers.

1700499906208.png
 

Mr E

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bluedragon

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Sigh, it's just so tiresome, this conflict, I read news about it almost every day, and it's become a bit depressing. Lots of the younger adults I've worked with have criticized everything that's going on though.

And both on Twitter AND in real life protests alike, lots of people are calling Biden "Genocide Joe":

Yawn .....you slept through Afghanistan? Viet Nam?

Let's draft those younger draft dodgers to see how they would react. When they have no dog in the fight ......nothing but a pedestrian .....
 
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LouisWilliams

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<sigh> Wrong again.

She implied that support for Israel is only submitting to the master of money rather than God. It is in response to this that he suggested that if money is separating her from God, by all means, she should quit.

No butt hurt. And how could he be but hurt if her comments IN CONTEXT had nothing to do with him and the war against Israel?
Well, read the article again, I think she meant something like, she was sticking by her personal opinions and beliefs was more important to her than staying in a cushy job and getting paid by him. That was what she meant by the peacemakers quote.

I also think that she might have meant the Arabs too, in their crimes against Israel, not just one side, or she was just criticizing everyone broadly. But Shapiro was the one who interpreted her initial comment as something it was not explicitly trying to say, and attacked her for it. And remember something else, she is actually a practicing Christian and a mother and a wife, while Shapiro is admittedly an Orthodox Jew who has repearedly refused to this day to believe in Christ. I respect both of them to some extent, and wish they would try to mend their differences.

According to this article, https://www.newsmax.com/politics/gaza-samaria-palestinians/2023/11/20/id/1142944/, 75% of the ‘peaceful’ Palestinians support the Oct 7 attack on Israel. Safe to say until this number is close to zero, the war will continue - even if you propagandize it by calling it genocide.
Yet if we want to talk about polls, Netanyahu is honestly not very popular at all either in Israel. If even his own people have turned against him, why should the rest of us be cheering him on? His legacy is already ruined in his country.

And most Americans do support a ceasefire right now, in fact only 32% of Americans say we should "support Israel". So some people are being less enthusiastic as time goes on, for better or worse. Both in both parties are so sick and tired of war, I'm not sure the average working-class guy struggling to raise a family wants us to send $14.5 billion over there when our own economy and education and everything else has so many problems.

Candace never said she liked the Arabs, or supported them, or whatever, I think her point was that we need to take care of ourselves and fix our complex problems first rather than police the world, she said this in a recent interview about Ukraine also.
 
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Wrangler

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she was just criticizing everyone broadly.
Hence, the conflict between the 2. President George W Bush famously said in response to 911 that "you are either for us or against us." And Oct 7 was 50x worse for Israel. What's this moral equivalence with choosing this time to criticize everyone broadly business?! :mad:
 
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Wrangler

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why should the rest of us be cheering him on?
See separate thread.
Christians against nationalism or accept the lie that America is not and never was a Christian nation are misguided. The term “Zionism” often seems to be used with a negative connotation. Here, I lay out the reasons why the civilized nations of the world, in general, and America, in particular, should be a radical supporter of Zionism:
  1. Foundation of Western Civilization
  2. Right of Conquest & Balfour Declaration
  3. UN Palestinian Mandate
  4. Islamic Jihad At Odds with Civilization Since Inception
  5. Only Democracy in Middle East
  6. Base of Operations in Middle East