Do you really know Jesus and our Father?

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amadeus

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Well I do apologize then Helen. I get too serious for my own good. I get too straight laced...ignore my very wrong take in my last post.

Wow Helen you are pretty firery at times...give me a heads up next time....I guess I ignored the animation below

Friends still then!! ;)

Bless you,

APAK

You have some of the same problem I often have. Just a little obtuse or naïve or unobservant about some of the seemingly [to the world] simplest things. But that's OK. God loves us anyway..
 
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Taken

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Not confusing at all...ONE God Almighty, Lord God or YWHW who has the holy spirit, and ONE son of God, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

There are TWO and these two are not equal.

Bless you,

APAK

Perhaps not confusing to you, however it is to me, and I am the one trying to understand you.

Please be more specific on your standing.

Three IN question.

Father
Son
Holy Spirit

In one respect it appears as though you say they are all ONE God,

Then it appears as though you say they are NOT equal.

Does not compute with me.
If they are ALL ONE God, how or why are they not ALL Equal?

Please elaborate. Thanks.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Off topic -

Happy Independance Day!

(To bad so many celebrating, are not independent or even know what that means)

God Bless,
Taken
 

APAK

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It is an illusion....content sheep in a veiled pen.......freedom in the spirit is real and independent from the world
 
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APAK

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@Taken

1. Names of our God: God Almighty = our Father = Jesus' Father = Lord God = Our creator = YWHW = Holy Spirit (God is spirit) etc.

2. Names of our Jesus = The Christ (anointed one or Messiah) = our Lord = our Savior (when used in specific context) = son of man (when used in specific context) = spirit of Christ = first of the new creation, first begotten etc.

3. There is NO extra spirit or holy spirit hanging around. All spirit originates with and from God Almighty.

There is NO three people (personalities) and all co-equal in one God. There is NO two people and both co-equal in one God.

There is ONLY ONE superior God. There is ONLY ONE Jesus, our Lord and savior who is today immortal and inferior to his Father.

Crystal clear right?

Bless you,

APAK
 
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Taken

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@Taken

1. Names of our God: God Almighty = our Father = Jesus' Father = Lord God = Our creator = YWHW = Holy Spirit (God is spirit) etc.

2. Names of our Jesus = The Christ (anointed one or Messiah) = our Lord = our Savior (when used in specific context) = son of man (when used in specific context) = spirit of Christ = first of the new creation, first begotten etc.

3. There is NO extra spirit or holy spirit hanging around. All spirit originates with and from God Almighty.

There is NO three people (personalities) and all co-equal in one God. There is NO two people and both co-equal in one God.

There is ONLY ONE superior God. There is ONLY ONE Jesus, our Lord and savior who is today immortal and inferior to his Father.

Crystal clear right?

That is clear according to the Knowledge presented in Scripture, that any reader can understand.

However God IS Mysterious.
His Understanding IS not the same as what a mans MIND can logically conclude regarding Spiritual things.

It is Gods Understanding that He desires a man to have.

Who can have or give Gods Understanding but God Himself?

It is Christ the Lord who gives mankind Gods Understanding.

Luke 24:45

God Bless,
Taken
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Correct. And the first obstacle which needs to be removed in unbelief about who Jesus is.

If Jesus is not God the Son, He could not possible have taken away the sin of the world. In any event there are an overwhelming number of Scripture passages which UNEQUIVOCALLY assert that Jesus is God -- the great I AM.[/QUOTE/]


late Anglican bishop John Robinson gave a thought-provoking answer to this question in his best-selling book Honest to God. He wrote:

“In practice popular preaching and teaching presents a supranaturalistic view of Christ which cannot be substantiated from the New Testament. It says simply that Jesus was God, in such a way that terms 'Christ' and 'God' are interchangeable. But nowhere in Biblical usage is this so. The New Testament says that Jesus was the Word of God, it says that God was in Christ, it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God, simply like that.”

The phrase 'God the Son is a erroneous translation of monogenes Theo's. It's hard to see how translaters translate monogenes huios as only begotten Son and monogenes Theo's as God only begotten.

John1:14 says that “the Word became flesh and resided among us.” For that reason he could call himself “the Son of man.” (Joh 1:51; 3:14, 15) Some draw attention to the expression “resided [literally, “tented”] among us” and claim this shows Jesus was, not a true human, but an incarnation. However, the apostle Peter uses a similar expression about himself, and Peter was obviously not an incarnation.—2Pe 1:13, 14

In regard to the phrase 'I AM' at John 8 :58 Professor E. J. Goodspeed was a member of the American Standard Bible Committee, and his translation renders John 8:58 as follows: “Jesus said to them, ‘I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born!’”

Note other translations:

Chas. Williams’ The New Testament: “Then Jesus said to them, ‘I most solemnly say to you, I existed before Abraham was born.’”

A. S. Lewis’ “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest: “He said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have been.”

The Twentieth Century New Testament: “‘Believe me,’ Jesus replied, ‘before Abraham was born I was already what I am.’”

G. M. Lamsa’s The Modern New Testament: “Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I was.”

Jas. Murdock’s The Syriac New Testament: “Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say to you, That before Abraham existed, I was.”

F. Pfaefflin’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus: ‘Before there was an Abraham, I was already there [war ich schon da]!’”

C. Stage’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus said to them: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you: Before Abraham was born, I was [war ich].’”

Nácar Colunga’s Nuevo Testamento (Spanish): “Jesus answered: ‘In truth, in truth, I say to you: Before Abraham was born, I was [era yo].’”

F. Delitzsch’s Hebrew New Testament and that by Salkinson-Ginsburg both have the verb in the perfect form “I have been” (haiithi) instead of in the imperfect form.

From the above it is to be seen that the New World Translation is consistent with rendering John 8:58 with other translaters as “I have been” instead of “I am.” Since Jesus was here referring to an existence from before Abraham and continuing down till he spoke, the New World Translation rendered egoʹ eimiʹ as “I have been” instead of “I was.”

When any clerical critic tries to claim inaccuracy for the New World Translation at John 8:58, then he is indicting not only it but also all these other scholars, English and foreign language, of inaccuracy. He is entitled to take and accept the version that he prefers because of bias toward a religious doctrine, in this case the trinity, but yet it should be recognized that the New World Translation has plenty of support by acknowledged, widely known translators for its rendering at John 8:58.
 
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Taken

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Thanks for sharing.

Scripture is clear...

Scripture Uncovers the Truth.
And in revealing the Truth...
Some will hear but will not understand.
Because they do not understand, they can not
Believe ALL things they hear.
Because they can not Believe ALL things they hear....

They make themselves subject to the results of the "parts" they can not Believe.

It's becomes their conundrum.

Believe IN Jesus...but can't quite TRUST "ALL" He reveals.

He is THEE "Word" of God....but not God?

He is THEE "Power" of God...but not the Almighty?

He Came Forth OUT from God....and Something "Other" than God Comes forth OUT FROM HIM?

Men begging TO SEE the FATHER, being told Looking AT JESUS, WAS them SEEING the Father?

There are MANY revelations IN Scripture that REVEAL Christ the Lord Jesus IS God revealing Himself to EARTHLY EYES, fulfilling mans begging from OT days, and God promising to REVEAL Himself and Walk Among Men, FOR THEIR NATURAL EYES TO SEE Him, "in a Fashion", "their Earthly natural Eyes Were "Capable" of Seeing",And and "their natural Ears Were "Capable" of Hearing".

Additionally, He SHOWED mankind HOW TO Become Converted, So their "Spiritual" EARS would be Quickened, made PRIVY TO Spiritual Hearing of His Voice, and His Understanding.

The Conundrum is....Faith IS a BEGINNING gift for a man....It is the INCREASE of Faith and TRUST that SOLVES the Conundrum.

Many Hear Jesus speak....
Some BELIEVED....Many Walked away in Disbelief.

Those Who continued Hearing, Believing....ARE those Who continued Receiving INCREASED Faith.

Nothing stops them from Walking AWAY, to Stop believing. Lose Faith. Lose receiving faith.

Judas a prime example.

And the other disciples...believed, denied, wondered, etc.......Their difference?

They continued Hearing.
They Continued receiving the Gift of Faith Increase.
Their Faith Increased Prepared them TO give their Life TO the Lord, Believe "WITHOUT" question, Without reseveration;
Which is TRUST.

How does a man Commit to ANYTHING, "with" TRUST "reservations"?

Commit and HOPE, "they can" TRUST ?

Be Content with the PARTS they "DO" Trust, and LEAN ON MINDFUL Conclusions to satisfy the PARTS they do not TRUST?

Scripture is Clear....A man is NOT 'SORT of' "IN" the Lord, and He 'SORT of" "IN" a man.

It is "ALL" or nothing.
Heartfelt Belief, Submission, Trust.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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OP ~ Yes ONE IN the same.

God Bless,
Taken
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Thanks for sharing.

Scripture is clear...

Scripture Uncovers the Truth.
And in revealing the Truth...
Some will hear but will not understand.
Because they do not understand, they can not
Believe ALL things they hear.
Because they can not Believe ALL things they hear....

They make themselves subject to the results of the "parts" they can not Believe.

It's becomes their conundrum.

Believe IN Jesus...but can't quite TRUST "ALL" He reveals.

He is THEE "Word" of God....but not God?

He is THEE "Power" of God...but not the Almighty?

He Came Forth OUT from God....and Something "Other" than God Comes forth OUT FROM HIM?

Men begging TO SEE the FATHER, being told Looking AT JESUS, WAS them SEEING the Father?

There are MANY revelations IN Scripture that REVEAL Christ the Lord Jesus IS God revealing Himself to EARTHLY EYES, fulfilling mans begging from OT days, and God promising to REVEAL Himself and Walk Among Men, FOR THEIR NATURAL EYES TO SEE Him, "in a Fashion", "their Earthly natural Eyes Were "Capable" of Seeing",And and "their natural Ears Were "Capable" of Hearing".

Additionally, He SHOWED mankind HOW TO Become Converted, So their "Spiritual" EARS would be Quickened, made PRIVY TO Spiritual Hearing of His Voice, and His Understanding.

The Conundrum is....Faith IS a BEGINNING gift for a man....It is the INCREASE of Faith and TRUST that SOLVES the Conundrum.

Many Hear Jesus speak....
Some BELIEVED....Many Walked away in Disbelief.

Those Who continued Hearing, Believing....ARE those Who continued Receiving INCREASED Faith.

Nothing stops them from Walking AWAY, to Stop believing. Lose Faith. Lose receiving faith.

Judas a prime example.

And the other disciples...believed, denied, wondered, etc.......Their difference?

They continued Hearing.
They Continued receiving the Gift of Faith Increase.
Their Faith Increased Prepared them TO give their Life TO the Lord, Believe "WITHOUT" question, Without reseveration;
Which is TRUST.

How does a man Commit to ANYTHING, "with" TRUST "reservations"?

Commit and HOPE, "they can" TRUST ?

Be Content with the PARTS they "DO" Trust, and LEAN ON MINDFUL Conclusions to satisfy the PARTS they do not TRUST?

Scripture is Clear....A man is NOT 'SORT of' "IN" the Lord, and He 'SORT of" "IN" a man.

It is "ALL" or nothing.
Heartfelt Belief, Submission, Trust.

God Bless,
Taken


I've known that when it comes to the 1st Adam since Satan was able to cause him to fall into sin he has always believed he could cause any one among mankind to fall into sin, including God's only begotten Son. You see I believe it's people who believe in the Trinity who don't have Faith. These People can't believe or have faith that God can create a flesh and blood 100% perfect man who can remain faithful to him without sinning because they have seen from scripture that Satan caused the 1st Adam who was the 1st 100% perfect man to fall into sin. In the Bible it says at PS.10:4;14:1 that there will be a people on the world that will be saying,"there is no God." I don't think it means they will be actually believing there is no God but instead because they don't study God word or live their lives according to God's word, "they are saying there is no God." Well when it comes to the people who believe in the Trinity I believe that these people believe that Satan can cause every 100% perfect man to fall into sin, not literally saying that,but instead saying that by how they believe, meaning the Trinity doctrine. See such people believe that Jesus is God-Man they believe in incarnation, which means they believe Jesus to be more than 100% perfect man when he was on the world.They don't believe that the only begotten Son of God was in Heaven originally, that God transferred this powerful spiritual person into the womb of Mary and when was born he became a 100% perfect human growing up to be a 100% perfect man. They believe it takes more than a 100% perfect man to save us. I believe They therefore are saying that Satan is right, that if God's only begotten Son of God had come as a 100% perfect man instead of a God-Man he could have caused him to fall into sin just like he caused the 1st 100% perfect man to sin. Why else would the people who believe in the Trinity believe that someone more than a 100% perfect man must come to save us. It's not what was lost when Satan caused Adam to sin. It wasn't a God-Man or an incarnation of God that was lost. Instead it was a 100% perfect man that was lost. Jesus sacrifice was a corresponding Ransom sacrifice for everyone. Meaning a 100% perfect man was what was lost when Adam sinned so who God sent to the world was a 100% perfect human, only Jesus remained perfect, was without sin when he was put to death. Jesus sacrifice his 100% perfect human life for us so that we could attain eternal life if we exercise faith in this loving act of love Jehovah God and his Only Begotten Son showed to mankind.
 
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Taken

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I've known that when it comes to the 1st Adam since Satan was able to cause him to fall into sin he has always believed he could cause any one among mankind to fall into sin, including God's only begotten Son. You see I believe it's people who believe in the Trinity who don't have Faith. These People can't believe or have faith that God can create a flesh and blood 100% perfect man who can remain faithful to him without sinning because they have seen from scripture that Satan caused the 1st Adam who was the 1st 100% perfect man to fall into sin. In the Bible it says at PS.10:4;14:1 that there will be a people on the world that will be saying,"there is no God." I don't think it means they will be actually believing there is no God but instead because they don't study God word or live their lives according to God's word, "they are saying there is no God." Well when it comes to the people who believe in the Trinity I believe that these people believe that Satan can cause every 100% perfect man to fall into sin, not literally saying that,but instead saying that by how they believe, meaning the Trinity doctrine. See such people believe that Jesus is God-Man they believe in incarnation, which means they believe Jesus to be more than 100% perfect man when he was on the world.They don't believe that the only begotten Son of God was in Heaven originally, that God transferred this powerful spiritual person into the womb of Mary and when was born he became a 100% perfect human growing up to be a 100% perfect man. They believe it takes more than a 100% perfect man to save us. I believe They therefore are saying that Satan is right, that if God's only begotten Son of God had come as a 100% perfect man instead of a God-Man he could have caused him to fall into sin just like he caused the 1st 100% perfect man to sin. Why else would the people who believe in the Trinity believe that someone more than a 100% perfect man must come to save us. It's not what was lost when Satan caused Adam to sin. It wasn't a God-Man or an incarnation of God that was lost. Instead it was a 100% perfect man that was lost. Jesus sacrifice was a corresponding Ransom sacrifice for everyone. Meaning a 100% perfect man was what was lost when Adam sinned so who God sent to the world was a 100% perfect human, only Jesus remained perfect, was without sin when he was put to death. Jesus sacrifice his 100% perfect human life for us so that we could attain eternal life if we exercise faith in this loving act of love Jehovah God and his Only Begotten Son showed to mankind.

BY you post before this last port it appeared we were in agreement.

BY your further testimony I can conclude we are not in agreement.

Have a blessed day,
Taken
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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BY you post before this last port it appeared we were in agreement.

BY your further testimony I can conclude we are not in agreement.

Have a blessed day,
Taken

That's the reason I clarified things, I didn't want you to be led into believing something that I didn't believe. I try to be honest. I understand their are those who disagree with me and that's ok. Nothing wrong in disagreeing with someone.
 

Taken

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That's the reason I clarified things, I didn't want you to be led into believing something that I didn't believe. I try to be honest. I understand their are those who disagree with me and that's ok. Nothing wrong in disagreeing with someone.

Thanks for the clarification.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Guestman

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Thanks for letting Christians know that the heretical Jehovah's Witness NWT translation is MORE ACCURATE than the KJB!

I already debunked this absurd and nonsensical idea that Christ will sit on God the Father and treat Him as an inanimate throne. Such foolishness and blasphemy from those who call Jesus "a god" (NWT John 1:1).

All these lengthy posts trying to prove that the God the Father does not call Jesus "GOD" (THEOS) are based upon a deliberate distortion of the Scriptures, which were corrupted by heretics to attack the deity of Christ.

Both the Critical and the Recieved texts as well as all English translations other than the NWT support the KJB.

RECEIVED TEXT
πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν, Ὁ θρόνος σου, ὁ Θεός, εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, ῥάβδος εὐθύτητος ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.

CRITICAL TEXT
πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ

KING JAMES BIBLE
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

The King James Bible has been proven to be archaic and inaccurate, for do you say "From whence cometh thou" (Job 2:2, KJV) or "canst not tell whence it cometh" ?(John 3:8, KJV) Rather, do you not say: "Where have you come from ?" (Job 2:2, New World Translation) if you want to know where a person has been or "you do not know where it comes from" if you can see that a person does not know something.(John 3:8, New World Translation)

Since when does archaic English trump over modern English ? Would you use medical techniques from 400 years ago, such bloodletting to solve a sore throat ? Well, just over 200 years ago, on December 14,1799, consider what physicians did for George Washington when he woke up (at about 2 AM) with a seriously inflamed throat, having shortness of breath.

The doctors took out about 80 ounces of blood over 12 hours through bloodletting, which is about 40 percent of an adult's total volume, causing his condition to rapidly deteriorate, so that by 11:30 that night, he was dead. Was their medical knowledge accurate ? What did it do George Washington ? Hastened his death.

Hence, the King James Bible has played a damaging role in people's viewpoints, causing them to come to wrong conclusions, such as Jesus is God. For instance, at John 8:58, the King James Bible reads: "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (Greek ego eimi)".

Is this accurate ? No. The context alone clearly points out what is being discussed, that of how old Jesus is ("said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham", KJV), not who he was.

If I ask how old you are, do start by telling me what job you have or how big a family you may have ? I asked how old you are, not who you are. So, Jesus answered with the words: "Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been".(John 8:58, New World Translation)

Greek scholar Jason BeDuhn, professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University (USA), with a Ph. D. degree from Indiana University in Comparative Study of Religion, an M.T.S. from Harvard Divinity School and a B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Illinois, stated that "because Greek idioms are different from English idioms, translators do not translate these expressions word-for-word, but rather convey the meaning of the Greek idiom in proper, comprehensible English. It is ungrammatical English for something referred to with a present "am" to occur earlier in time than something described with a past "came to be".......In John 8:58, since Jesus existence is not completed past action, but ongoing, we must use some sort of imperfect verbal form to convey that: "I have been (since) before Abraham came to be". That's as close as we can get to what the Greek says in our own language if we pay attention to all parts of the sentence. The NW (New World Translation) coordinate the two verbs in John 8:58 according to proper English syntax, and that accurately reflect the meaning of the Greek idiom. The other translations fail to do so", such as the King James Bible.(Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, pub. in 2003)

Or for example, at John 10:33, according to the King James Bible, it reads: "The Jews answered him saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God". Is this accurate ? No. Why ?

Simply put because the word for "god" is not preceded by the definite Greek article "ton" that means "the", making the word "god" as indefinite so that it accurately reads "a god", not God or "the God". And anyone "worth their salt" can see that Jesus referred to Psalms 82 at John 10:34, whereby the apostate judges of Israel were called "gods".

Thus, he used the same wording for the wicked judges of Israel at Psalms 82:6. Have you not read John 10:35 even in the King James Bible that says: "If he (God) call them gods (the wicked judges of Israel), unto whom the word of (the definite Greek article ton is used here, so that it can rightly be rendered as "the God") God came, and the scripture cannot be broken".

Thence, Jesus is "a god", but not "the God" (John 1:1, 2 whereby the definite Greek article "ton" is used before "God" the first and third times, but not in the second instance, so that Jesus is "a god") and of which the Jews were angry at Jesus for calling himself "a god", not "the God". Just one verse down, Jesus says, as rendered by the King James Bible: "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified ("sanctified", Greek hagiazo meaning "to make holy, setting apart for use by God"), and sent into the world, Thou blasphemist; because I said, I am the ("the", Greek ton) Son of God ?"(John 10:36)

Question: How can Jesus be God and yet be sanctified by God, being made holy, since God is always holy ?
 
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Nancy

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Well, amen to this.
I do find a big problem with two theories, which I won't go into so that the thread is not derailed.

I agree that we are not saved by our doctrine, although we do love to argue about it, don't we?..."


"God must have a good chuckle every now and then (or maybe more often)"
Lol, true...I'm thinking "more often" :D
"although we do love to argue about it, don't we?" If it is done in truth and love, I would say we are passionate about what we believe. But, can't help it, I love watching debates on you tube :)
In Him Always!
-nancy
 
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Enoch111

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Hence, the King James Bible has played a damaging role in people's viewpoints, causing them to come to wrong conclusions, such as Jesus is God.
This is simply laughable. The King James Bible has been THE BIBLE of the English-speaking/English-reading world for over 400 years, and no one made such a ludicrous statement during all that time.

And you can turn to almost any modern English translation and confirm that they ALL contain the Scriptures which declare that Jesus is God. So let's stick with John 1:1, which UNEQUIVOCALLY states that Jesus (the Word) is God. Not one of them says "the Word was a god" (which is also ludicrous, but promoted by the New World Translation and the Jehovah's Witnesses). This one violation of the integrity of Scripture is sufficient to prove that the Watch Tower Society promotes a false gospel and a false Jesus. Hence it it accursed (Galatians 1).

New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
New American Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
International Standard Version
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NET Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jubilee Bible 2000
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
King James 2000 Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
American King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Darby Bible Translation
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
 
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tigger 2

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(1) Trinitarian Moffatt’s highly acclaimed New Translation of the Bible and (2) trinitarian Smith-Goodspeed’s An American Translation both say that the Word “was divine.” The translations by (3) Boehmer, (4) Stage, and (5) Menge all say the Word was “of divine being.” (6) John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible:

“Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.’” - p. 317, 1965, published with Catholic nihil obstat and imprimatur.

Why have these translators refused to make a more literal translation (“the Word was God”), as many other trinitarians have done? After all, if the original Greek of a scripture is written in such a manner that it can honestly be translated into English with several different meanings (as so frequently happens), an honest translator will invariably pick the meaning that is closest to his own beliefs and prejudices. And an honest trinitarian would, therefore, translate John 1:1c as “and the Word was God” If he felt he could honestly do so! So why have some trinitarian translators refused to so translate it?

The Greek words, grammar, and context clues used here by John have convinced them something else was clearly intended at John 1:1c. Rather than make a highly probable error (with extremely serious consequences - John 17:3 and 2 Thess. 1:8), they have very carefully selected a word (“divine”) that has several meanings.

If they had honestly believed that John was saying that Jesus is God, they certainly would not have hesitated to say “the Word was God.” Why, then, did some trinitarian translators of Christendom, some of the best Bible scholars and translators in the world, choose the word “divine”? Well, what does “divine” mean? According to the best authority on word meanings it means - “1a: of or relating to God: proceeding from God...b: of or relating to a god; having the nature of a god; like a god or like that of a god.” - Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1962.

John 1:1c - Even the trinitarian NT Greek expert, W. E. Vine, (although, for obvious reasons, he chooses not to accept it as the proper interpretation) admits that it is literally translated “a god was the Word”.- p. 490, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Thomas Nelson, Inc., 1983 printing.

Noted Professor C. H. Dodd, director of the New English Bible project, also admits this is a proper literal translation:

“A possible translation [for John 1:1c] ... would be, ‘The Word was a god.’ As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted.” - Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, vol. 28, Jan. 1977.

The reason Prof. Dodd still rejects “a god” as the actual meaning intended by John is simply because it upsets his trinitarian interpretations of John’s Gospel! - "The reason why it is inacceptable [sic.] is that it runs counter to the current of Johannine thought, and indeed of Christian thought as a whole." - Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, vol. 28, Jan. 1977.

Trinitarian NT scholar Prof. Murray J. Harris also admits that grammatically John 1:1c may be properly translated, ‘the Word was a god,’ but his trinitarian bias makes him claim that “John’s monotheism” will not allow such an interpretation. - p. 60, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

And Dr. J. D. BeDuhn in his Truth in Translation states about John 1:1c:

“ ‘And the Word was a god.’ The preponderance of evidence from Greek grammar… supports this translation.” - p. 132, University Press of America, Inc., 2003.

My own personal studies of this verse which prove the grammatical probability of the intended meaning at John 1:1c as "a god":

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013/02/seven-lessons-for-john-11c-a.html ... (see the first five lessons)
or
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/john-11c-primer_21.html
 
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Enoch111

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“Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.’”...
I trust you are fully aware that there are many apostates passing themselves off as Christian theologians, scholars, professors, translators, pastors, teachers etc. But they have abandon Bible truth and Bible doctrine, and so we have this BOGUS translation pretending to be a *rigorous* translation. You should have immediately dismissed this as TOTAL RUBBISH, and here's the reason why:

CRITICAL TEXT
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

RECEIVED TEXT
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

Did you notice that the Critical and Received texts are identical in this case? Which means there is no ambiguity about the actual verse.

And THEOS has one and only one English equivalent which is G-O-D.

Therefore we have this translation (KJB): In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Therefore "divine being" is bogus, and has absolutely no basis in Scripture. It is as bogus as the JW translation "a god". According to Scripture there are no demi-gods, and all pagan false gods are demons.

However, since it is a direct attack on the deity of Christ, all the heretics are happy to promote this, and Satan is happier still, since he is really the one behind the falsification of Scripture. He hates the fact that Jesus is God, so he tries every trick in the book. And you have been tricked my friend.
 
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brakelite

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Although I was a very imperfect reproduction of my father, I did actually come out of my mother's womb human. Despite the odd argument to the contrary since.
With God there is no imperfection. What God produces of Himself is a prefect reproduction, thus of the Father is God, then so also is the Son. Jesus did not need to profess His divinity, all He needed to do, and did, was profess His Sonship. Not adopted such as we are...not created such as the angels, but the Father's only begotten Son. The Sonship of Jesus is the greatest evidence we have of His divinity. He can be nothing else but God.
 
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