Does death come before the mark of the beast?

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rockytopva

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15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13

Does death come before the mark of the beast? Scripture indicates that "as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." It looks like we will be martyred away before having opportunity to receive the mark of the beast.
 

BlackManINC

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rockytopva said:
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13

Does death come before the mark of the beast? Scripture indicates that "as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." It looks like we will be martyred away before having opportunity to receive the mark of the beast.
Well that's obvious, but "we" doesn't mean every saint on planet earth.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, BlackManINC and rockytopva.

BlackManINC said:
Well that's obvious, but "we" doesn't mean every saint on planet earth.
No, indeed! In fact, the passage does NOT say that everyone on earth will be given the “do or die” alternative. It will probably only extend to the beast’s kingdom. While that may be quite large, it will NOT be all-encompassing!
 

michaelvpardo

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I've been meditating upon two verses from Isaiah for a month or two now. I'd read them many times before, but never really considered the full implications:
1. The righteous perishes, and no man takes it to heart; merciful men are taken away, while no one considers that the righteous is taken away from evil.
2. He shall enter into peace; they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. Isaiah 57:1-2
Considered in the broader context of scripture, both Old and New testaments including other passages in Isaiah, which tell us that there are none righteous, I had thought that this somehow referred prophetically to our Lord and His sacrifice prior to the judgment of Jerusalem and the nation of Israel, but while studying eschatological events my understanding has been changing. The Lord taught me that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine was a deception designed to weaken the church and attack the faith of those who find themselves in ever worsening conditions as "the day" approaches. So the question arises as to how the Lord keeps His word about keeping the "faithful church":

"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Revelation 3:10

The obvious answer to that question is found in Isaiah 57:1-2. The Complete Jewish Bible translates the passage more directly with regard to its meaning: "The righteous person perishes, and nobody gives it a thought. Godly men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous person is taken away from the evil yet to come."
Verse 2 of the CJB version reads: "Yes, those who live uprightly will have peace as they rest on their couches." making the entire verse about the righteous in the previous verse, but the KJV actually gives a contrast between those God has called righteous and those that are self righteous, who are later called the children of the sorceress, the spawn of adulterers and whores. The KJV version (which generally is closer to commonly used translations) is closer doctrinally to what we see throughout scripture:
11. There is a generation that curses its father, and does not bless its mother.
12. There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes, yet is not washed from its filthiness.
13. There is a generation oh, how lofty are their eyes! And their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, and whose fangs are like knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. Proverbs 30:11-14

The kingdom of the antichrist is set up as a religious kingdom under a world wide false religion and all false religion is based upon self-righteousness or a works based theology.
The Apostle Paul tells us in his letter 2 Timothy that in the last days false teachers will be teaching such religion:
1. But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3. unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4. traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5. having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 2 Timothy 3:1-5

It was men like these among the scribes, Pharisees and religious leaders of Jerusalem that Jesus upbraided for their hypocrisy: 13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. Matthew 23:13-14
And it was this kind of hypocrisy that Jesus gave clear warning to His disciples about:
11. "How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? but you should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.''
12. Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Matthew 16:11-12
We immediately understand from the text that Jesus warned His disciples about the teaching of the Pharisees and their hypocrisy, but how would we define their guilt? Jesus displayed it for all to see:
39. But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness.
40. "Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?
41. "But rather give alms of such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you.
42. "But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Luke 11:39-42
The Pharisees and Sadducees were among those who put on a show of righteousness, who did works according to God's law and more so of their own laws to show to men their loftier standing with God. They did superficial things to impress others while remaining unloving and unjust and avoiding "the weightier matters of the law." They may have had some fear of God, but they were confident in their own works, self righteous, and not recognizing their own sin and need for a savior. They believed themselves "holy" by their works and God held them as holy but for destruction:
49. "Therefore the wisdom of God also said, `I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,'
50. "that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
51. "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
52. "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.'' Luke 11:49-52
"God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.''

Is there a modern equivalent to this doctrine? I wouldn't argue against our attempts to be holy as God is holy, as we have this commandment from scripture, but there has always been movements within the visible church to live out righteousness by our own strength, to demonstrate our holiness by our works in the same way as the Pharisees and Sadducees. The Holiness of God doesn't come to us by works, but by His presence:
17. "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
18. "And, `Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'
19. "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?
20. "Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it.
21. "He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
22. "And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it. Matthew 23:17-22

And the righteous works that we may do we are to do in Him, by His power and according to His will:
4. "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5. "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
7. "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
8. "By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. John 15:4-8

This is all the difference, we can do our works for God, or He can do His works through us. The first is deception because it is born of our own will, the latter is truth because it is born in His will.

Jesus also warned of the consequence of the type of hypocrisy born of self righteousness:
48. "But if that evil servant says in his heart, `My master is delaying his coming,'
49. "and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,
50. "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,
51. "and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:48-51


The Lord also gave a parable about His return:
1. "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2. "Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3. "Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4. "but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5. "But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6. "And at midnight a cry was heard: `Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7. "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8. "And the foolish said to the wise, `Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9. "But the wise answered, saying, `No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11. "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, `Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12. "But he answered and said, `Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
13. "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming. Matthew 25:1-13
Some would argue that the oil of the parable is our good works, but when we compare what the Lord said with regard to Him being the vine and we being the branches, the works we do in Christ are the result of our relationship to Him, of abiding in Him which still remains in keeping His commandments and in obedience to His word, but what did He tell His disciples that the works should be?
28. Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?''
29. Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.'' John 6:28-29
When a church denies the deity of Jesus or says that its unimportant to believe Him or His word isn't that church foolish? Isn't that the definition of Apostasy? Should it be a surprise that the righteous should perish to be spared that which is to come against the false church, the congregation of the wicked? And if some must pass through that time to realize the truth and turn to God for mercy and grace, is that a surprise? The Lord said that the meek would inherit the earth and its also clear that those who will not humble themselves will be humbled. In the end, justice will be done and righteousness will prevail. The Lord will not allow those that are His own to be tempted beyond that which they are able and to those who cannot stand there is mercy and grace in death, for in dying "yet shall they live." For the rest there is mercy and grace to prevail, to overcome the world by the blood of the lamb and its all of Him, and by Him, and through Him and for His glory. Amen.
 

ezekiel

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No, the mark brings death if I understand you. See many I see are ready have this mark because I see it on them. Satan a master of flesh moreso biologly speaking he is complete as to say none more to learn about the body. Now Atheist are on this path and satan will be a hero to them. First off understand the number 666. This is two numbers 660 and 6 just as the bible states. 660 are the firery serpent and many understanding are about this now 6 mean past or of the past. This is the meaning of 666. The dragon of old is returning so to say. The firey serpent is related to the red star that many ancient text refer to. Hope this helps
 

michaelvpardo

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ezekiel said:
No, the mark brings death if I understand you. See many I see are ready have this mark because I see it on them. Satan a master of flesh moreso biologly speaking he is complete as to say none more to learn about the body. Now Atheist are on this path and satan will be a hero to them. First off understand the number 666. This is two numbers 660 and 6 just as the bible states. 660 are the firery serpent and many understanding are about this now 6 mean past or of the past. This is the meaning of 666. The dragon of old is returning so to say. The firey serpent is related to the red star that many ancient text refer to. Hope this helps
I don't know where you're getting your interpretation from but where do you find 660 meaning "firery serpent" or 6 meaning past? Conventional understanding is that 6 is the number of humanity (or something less than the complete number 7 which comes with the rest found in Jesus Christ, our completeness). In scripture, the Hebrew word translated as fiery serpent is actually the same word translated as "seraphim" which is a class of heavenly (or angelic) beings (and in the plural form). The text referring to taking the mark of the beast shows us a parallel in the false kingdom of God's commandment to Israel about Torah or His law:
4. "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might.
6. "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart;
7. "you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
8. "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
9. "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Deuteronomy 6:4-9
The devil imagines that he will take the place of God and this has been his goal upon the earth. Satan is the ruler of this world and has always tried to build his kingdom as an imitation of God's kingdom and in mockery, copying that which is holy and right and perverting it to self gratification and that which is profane. The antichrist spoken of in scripture is supposed to be a culmination of Satan's ambition in the form of a man who attains both to world power and to domination over the saints of God. Lawlessness is a dominant expression of human behavior in the end times (because of lack of faith and outright unbelief in the God of scripture), but the anti-Christ is one who will attempt to coral and control human behavior (at its worst) through force and coercion. In his kingdom the world is everything and all that there is and everything in it is vanity.
 

blessedhope

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I think the mark goes a little deeper then what you want to read, In the great white judgement all that rejected God Jesus will have their day in court, notice it state that ever man {In Gods Image} But in rev they do not have their day in court>> WHY?? they are not in the Image of God! This is very interesting > just like the Anti_Christ and the False Prophet do not have their day in court? >very interesting >>>Why is this? Are they not in the Image of God? some thing to think about what this mark will do to the human and the image of God Jesus.
 

blessedhope

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Does death come before the mark of the beast? Scripture indicates that "as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." It looks like we will be martyred away before having opportunity to receive the mark of the beast.> You don't read the bible very well do you >look up the Blessed Hope !
 

blessedhope

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[SIZE=14pt]“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.[/SIZE] In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SIZE=14pt]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]And where I go you know, and the way you know” (John 14:1-4). This will do![/SIZE]