Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?

[Arthur81]

So, you began with "world" doesn't mean world.
Now you have moved on to "all" doesn't mean all?
Terrific. Any other common words you would like to UNdefine for us? (don't bother)

The Merriam-Webster

the world
noun
1
: the earth and all the people and things on it
He is famous throughout the world.
They sailed around the world.
The product is shipped halfway around/across the world.
The island was cut off from the rest of the world.
They want to see/travel the world.
2
: the people in the world
She felt that the world was against her.
They announced their discovery to the world.
The world watched as he attempted to break the Olympic record.
She felt the eyes of the world watching her.
3
: all that is important : everything
I would give my children the world if I could.

The Oxford Learner's Dictionary

all

(used with plural nouns. The noun may have the, this, that, my, her, his, etc. in front of it, or a number.)
the whole number of
- All horses are animals, but not all animals are horses.
- Cars were coming from all directions (= every direction).
-All the people you invited are coming.
-All my plants have died.
-All five men are hard workers.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is the act of those to whom God gave the gift of faith.

Seems that your view of John 3:16 looks something like this...

God so hated the whole world that he decided to incinerate anyone that
didn't receive his free gift, thus proving the gift wasn't free after all.

Does that sound about right?

 

[St. SteVen]

The Merriam-Webster

the world
noun
1
: the earth and all the people and things on it
He is famous throughout the world.
They sailed around the world.
The product is shipped halfway around/across the world.
The island was cut off from the rest of the world.
They want to see/travel the world.
2
: the people in the world
She felt that the world was against her.
They announced their discovery to the world.
The world watched as he attempted to break the Olympic record.
She felt the eyes of the world watching her.
3
: all that is important : everything
I would give my children the world if I could.

The Oxford Learner's Dictionary

all

(used with plural nouns. The noun may have the, this, that, my, her, his, etc. in front of it, or a number.)
the whole number of
- All horses are animals, but not all animals are horses.
- Cars were coming from all directions (= every direction).
-All the people you invited are coming.
-All my plants have died.
-All five men are hard workers.

Is that supposed to prove that "world" doesn't mean world and "all" doesn't mean all?

 

[St. SteVen]

I see it like this...

(a) God has sovereignly ordained that one man (Abraham) and his descendants shall be saved. (Rom 11:26)
(b) As part of that covenant, God has declared that Abraham shall be made a "father of Gentiles." (Gen 17:4)

If some Gentiles go out and join themselves to Israel via adoption, they have upheld (b), and this does not negate (a).

-Jarrod

Have you converted to Judaism?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Steven,

I believe that Yahava cares for all people, and is constantly calling out to people by the spirit, and the bride. And Yahava, to me personally calls out to those who outside the kingdom, in the heavenly realm who have passed away. Yahava, is a consuming fire, according to Hebrews 12:29, and also from Moses it is noted he is a jealous God. While people are afraid of the fire, the fire is exceptional and part of Yahava who is spirit, and while I do not know how spiritual bodies feel flames of fire - my idea is that the love of God, hurts to experience cause it comes from a personal rejection of your own will and ways and that is part of suffering.

There was a promise though, that the LORD would destroy and divorce his once-married people because of their constant idolatry. And that the Messiah would come and marry the new bride which was made for him, the new bride of Christ and establish the spiritual kingdom back in that day in age and generation which Jesus even spoke about would witness in their life. Having been warned for 1,500 years. God destroyed them, by the use of the Roman Army in my opinion anyway. While some say, oh God using something to destroy people is not a good God. Well, Yahava is the life giver, and the life taker, just read 1 Samuel, and note out what the LORD told samuel, about Eli and he was going to kill off his family line.

 

[St. SteVen]

Saving faith is not inherently within sinful man. It is God's gift to the elect.

Therefore, God predestined some to life, and everyone else to destruction, right?
If so, that's a pathetic view of our loving heavenly Father. (for shame)

 

[Stumpmaster]

Therefore, God predestined some to life, and everyone else to destruction, right?

The order is Divine Foreknowledge then Divine Predestination.

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. (29) For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. (30) And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

Eph 1:11 In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Wick Stick]

Have you converted to Judaism?

No? at least not in the way I think you're asking.

But in one sense, all of Christianity is an extension of Israel. Abraham's children are those who believe like Abraham. (Rom 4, Jas 3)

 

[St. SteVen]

No? at least not in the way I think you're asking.

But in one sense, all of Christianity is an extension of Israel. Abraham's children are those who believe like Abraham. (Rom 4, Jas 3)

I assume you mean grafted in?
Abraham is the father of faith. But he is not part of Israel. He is BEFORE Israel.
Not sure what you are claiming. Please explain. Thanks.

 

[Wick Stick]

I assume you mean grafted in?

Yes. Grafted. Adopted. Same thing.

Abraham is the father of faith. But he is not part of Israel. He is BEFORE Israel.

Yes, but we need a word for that group. Israel is the word the Bible uses, so...

 

[quietthinker]

Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?​

Seems that was the attempted charge in the Wilderness temptations of Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Abraham is the father of faith. But he is not part of Israel. He is BEFORE Israel.

Yes, but we need a word for that group. Israel is the word the Bible uses, so...

Not that I'm aware of. Do you see that in scripture?
Or did you mean in discussion only?
In my POV Israel came later.

In fact the new covenant came before the old covenant.

Romans 4:16 NIV
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace
and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—
not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have
the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

 

[Wick Stick]

Not that I'm aware of. Do you see that in scripture?

Yes. I think you are looking backwards in time to the period of Abraham? Yeah, it's not there. It's later.

So, the Assyrians came and destroyed the "House of Israel" - the northern half of the country - in the 8th century BC. But the prophets go right on prophesying about the House of Israel. Even though they acknowledge that Ephraim is "cut off" and "divorced" and "no people" and "dry bones" they uniformly predict that it will become a people again, be re-united with Judah, and restored.

And the fulfillment of that happens in the New Testament. Jesus focused His ministry on the areas outside/around Judah - in Galilee, Perea, the Decapolis - to "the lost sheep of the House of Israel." He causes the country to exist again by adopting many people into it.

Or did you mean in discussion only?
In my POV Israel came later.

I guess I'm just saying that the converts in New Testament times are viewed as an extension of "Israel." They are referred to under that name both by the Old Testament prophets, and by Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament.

 

[Arthur81]

Therefore, God predestined some to life, and everyone else to destruction, right?
If so, that's a pathetic view of our loving heavenly Father. (for shame)

St SteVen, you can presume to be more righteous than how God has described himself and his acts in the scriptures he gave us, but I'll stick with what the word of God clearly states. You would do well to study the attributes of God. He indeed loves his elect with an everlasting love; but he also is said to hate sin and certain sinners. The attribute of "love" cannot be expanded to coverup other attributes.

"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." (Jer 31:3 KJV)

So, the immutable God loves with an everlasting love, and then sends some to an eternal hell. That does not sound like everlasting love to me.

You bring to mind a statement Elihu made to Job -

"Elihu spake moreover, and said, Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?" (Job 35:1-2 KJV)

The error of Elihu is not in knowing that for a mere mortal to claim "My righteousness is more than God's? is sin."

The error of Job's friends was in judging and accusing Job wrongly. It certainly is sin to consider oneself more righteous than God! So I'll stay with what he states about himself.

 

[St. SteVen]

The attribute of "love" cannot be expanded to coverup other attributes.

You misspelled atrocities.

 

[St. SteVen]

So, the immutable God loves with an everlasting love, and then sends some to an eternal hell. That does not sound like everlasting love to me.

I agree.
That does not sound like everlasting love to me either.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well there are some obvious principles if one can look past their theological bias.

1- God loves sinners, God loves the world meaning all people, everyone.
2- So when its says God hates we must examine what/who is the recipient of the hate and why. Why God would detest something/someone vs love less.
3- We use the lexicons to help us determine how the word is being used in various contexts/passages.
4- We use other scriptures to compare the word/verse with to get an idea how its used
5- We for example can learn about the " idioms" from the original people, places and times
6- With hate we learn it is an Jewish idiom being used in conjunction with love as a comparison.

This is interesting. Thanks.
Kind of gets lost at the bottom of a long post. Worth repeating. (pasted below)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Well there are some obvious principles if one can look past their theological bias.

1- God loves sinners, God loves the world meaning all people, everyone.
2- So when its says God hates we must examine what/who is the recipient of the hate and why.
Why God would detest something/someone vs love less.
3- We use the lexicons to help us determine how the word is being used in various contexts/passages.
4- We use other scriptures to compare the word/verse with to get an idea how its used
5- We for example can learn about the " idioms" from the original people, places and times
6- With hate we learn it is an Jewish idiom being used in conjunction with love as a comparison."

 

[Arthur81]

You misspelled atrocities.

Apparently you know nothing about the many attributes of God. I wrote "attributes" and that is what I meant.

 

[St. SteVen]

Apparently you know nothing about the many attributes of God. I wrote "attributes" and that is what I meant.

Perhaps what I do know about attributes of God tells me that our theology is wrong. ???

God is omniscient, which means he knows everything.
In reference to time from our perspective, that means our past, present, and future.

In the beginning was the Logos/logic/reason/meaning/intentions/plan/means/and anticipated outcome.
And the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.

This means that for what it is worth to us, God knew the end at the beginning.
And we have the ability to frame that as good or bad, as we understand it. Was the Logos good, or bad?
Good logic, good reason, good meaning, good intentions, good plan, good means, and good anticipated outcome.
Or bad... intentions, and bad anticipated outcome. (the conclusion of bad theology)

So, the topic title question is valid. IMHO

Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?​

Does theology tell us that God did all this for himself, or for us?

Theology tells us that God created man (humankind) for His own glory.
And that the chief end of man (humankind) is to glorify (worship) God.

What does theology tell us? That God cares more for himself than he cares for us.
That He made us for his own benefit. Ultimately, He is all important. We don't matter.
And if we dare to have that backwards, eternal fire awaits to incinerate us. (feel the love)
Further confirming his utter disgust with us.

What happens if we flip the script?
What if God had a Logos that meant He had ... good logic, good reason, good meaning,
good intentions, good plan, good means, and good anticipated outcome?

Would that look like love? Would that mean that God cares more for us than Himself?
Seems so?

Can you live with that? Or will you stick with the bad theology?

Would that be a bad thing?
Bad theology says, "Yes, that would be a bad thing."
Bad theology says, "God cares more for himself than he cares for us."

 

[beyondyours11]

ChatQuote:

The character of God, as described in His Word, is multifaceted and awe-inspiring. Here are a couple of aspects that highlight His nature:

1. Infinite: God is self-existing and without origin1. He is beyond human comprehension, and our words fall short in describing His greatness1. The name Jehovah, used extensively in the Bible, signifies God’s self-existence and sovereignty1.
2. Loving and Good: God’s love extends to all generations, and His kindness knows no bounds2. He is righteous, holy, just, and watches over His creation with constant awareness and care2.

These are just a glimpse of the many attributes of God described in His Word. Exploring the Bible further will reveal more about our Creator, Provider, Protector, Great Shepherd, Righteous Judge, and Friend3.
Please note that these descriptions are not exhaustive, as God’s character is beyond complete human comprehension.

God is amazing. He is the ultimate embodiment of love, compassion, and mercy. He is the epitome of justice, righteousness, and holiness. His character is characterized by infinite wisdom, perfect sovereignty, and unending grace. God is the source of all goodness, the giver of life, and the provider of every need. He is faithful, patient, and unfailing in His promises. His character is unchangeable, constant, and unfathomable. God is the perfect example of love and goodness, worthy of our trust, adoration, and worship. God is so good to us.