Does God know

[n2thelight]

Question,does God know beforehand who will be saved and who will not?My opinion is that He does not.

 

[pointer]

(n2thelight;5582)
Question,does God know beforehand who will be saved and who will not?My opinion is that He does not.
Why is that your opinion?

 

[Pop James]

n2.............."GOD hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation"...2 thes 2:13.... election makes salvation sure.............Pop

 

[Carer]

If you believe that God knows everything, then it seems to follow that he would know beforehand who will or won't be saved. The Bible has many instances of Jesus 'foretelling' events as well as being able to tell people things about themselves that they didn't realise he knew.It seems to make sense that Jesus would not have been able to do this if God did not know everything.However, whether you believe that God's foreknowledge about who will or won't be saved is based on the fact that he himself made those choices, or whether you believe it simply comes down to him 'knowing our hearts' and the choices we ourselves will make, that is another matter.

 

[SilentFlight]

That is a good point ut God gave us free will, and sometimes even if our heart tells us to do something we may go against it. Perhaps God is all knowing bout all the thins wecould choose, so if you chose to be a beautician or a actress or a secutary god has a chain of evets for eac of these options of course we have choice to choose only there will be some things tht will be out of control. being made redundant for example yet it seems God is more certain at these points when you are low. Athiests wold likely put it to a sad mind but you could think of it as breaking the old and building t new. If you had a wall and t was the persons slf n a way things they value as success and care about if some of it is built wrong then you can continue the wall but it could fall over or break, the best thing you coulddo would be to knock it out with a hammer. Truth is no one lkes it when things go wrong they loose a partner a job, it is ufair to say every bad thing happens tbecause of a bad brick in the wall, everything happens for a reason youmay not see that reason at the time you may even look back and not notice it. Only sometimes a basd ting is all you need to take a step up change a litle for the better be a little more careful. per he does not know our hearts most of the time we know in our heart what is right when it is not distorted by guilt or fear. Although we have free choice and our choices will reflect with things that come to pass later, you will reap the harvest of your seed. If God does not know everything it is good that when things do go wrong he helps but then if you do not ask him for help he will not step in if you ask him to help he does. Your view is a good one, when you are preached to you are told differnrt things i think you would have to do some major study of as much of the bible as you could to make sure the view is definate,even if it is not this could be differet views applied to different situations. When dffernt people read the bible they find it means different things the words connecting with your life that maybe completely different if someone else was reading.

 

[pointer]

(SilentFlight;5637)
if you chose to be a beautician or a actress
I wonder if any Christians have chosen to be beauticians or actresses.

 

[servant_of_the_end]

Yes He does. This is one of those questions that is hard to bear and answer, but we must remember that God has called us before we were born. I have in the past said this often. When we appear before the Throne we will be as He is, seeing Him as He is and will at that time understand His righteous judgments. My brother Paul wrote of this in his letter to the Romans. It will be at that time only when we will gain understanding of how this question can be answered and we will not be perplexed, as many are now, when the only answer is yes with no understanding of how it can be so.We are bound in our understanding with only a reference of the finite for our being and the yes answer can only be understood when we pass from the finite to the infinate.

 

[HammerStone]

Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.That single verse answers it for me. God's given us the blueprint to what is going to happen. If he can give us the events of what is to come, surely he knows what will come? Consider what the titles given to him imply - he that was, that is, and is to come (roughly stated). Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.Ephesians 1:5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,Ephesians 1:11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[n2thelight]

Let me see if I can explain my position,let me start by saying,it is my belief that had satan not rebelled we would not now be in flesh bodies.We were made flesh in order to choose who we would follow(God or satan)those who followed satan in his overthrow attempt,could have at that time along with satan,been sentenced to death(satan was)instead God gave us this time in the flesh.I say all that to say this, if He knew who would be saved He could have at that time carried out the judgment of death to the soul,instead of us going through this age of flesh.In understanding my position do know that I feel we were with the Father before we were born,and as I said at the top it is because of satan that we are now in flesh.Hope that all made sense

 

[pointer]

(n2thelight;5655)
In understanding my position do know that I feel we were with the Father before we were born
How can anyone know that you feel that? There is no way that anyone can prove themselves Christian, not even by martyrdom.

 

[n2thelight]

PointerQuote"How can anyone know that you feel that? There is no way that anyone can prove themselves Christian, not even by martyrdom"ReplyI think its what I just said,but anyway do know that this will be my last response to you,as I stated in an earlier post,your responses are pointless

 

[pointer]

(n2thelight;5659)
PointerQuote"How can anyone know that you feel that? There is no way that anyone can prove themselves Christian, not even by martyrdom"ReplyI think its what I just said
I can't see where you wrote that, but if you agree that no-one can prove themselves Christian, it is pointless of you to make the claim. In fact, a true and mature church leader does not make the claim in an anonymous situation, because to do so would appear to validate mere verbal claim as sufficient grounds for accepting an individual as a Christian. Christians are known by their fruits, but fruits can be difficult enough to assess even in a church situation, where people's lives are (or should be) open to all, and thus under constant scrutiny. The internet is open to all, without any check of personal behaviour, so no assumptions should be made about anyone, and no appeals to personal authority even attempted. Scripture is the only authority agreed by Christians, and the only one appealed to, other than objective history or current events.

 

[tomwebster]

(n2thelight;5655)
Let me see if I can explain my position,let me start by saying,it is my belief that had satan not rebelled we would not now be in flesh bodies.We were made flesh in order to choose who we would follow(God or satan)those who followed satan in his overthrow attempt,could have at that time along with satan,been sentenced to death(satan was)instead God gave us this time in the flesh.I say all that to say this, if He knew who would be saved He could have at that time carried out the judgment of death to the soul,instead of us going through this age of flesh.In understanding my position do know that I feel we were with the Father before we were born,and as I said at the top it is because of satan that we are now in flesh.Hope that all made sense
====================n2, I agree

 

[HammerStone]

How can anyone know that you feel that? There is no way that anyone can prove themselves Christian, not even by martyrdom.
There's no one that anyone should have to prove they are a Christian to other than Our Father. However, God provides the spiritual discernment to those who are His so that we'll know when something is not always right and the basic guidelines can be found right there in His Word.We're not to judge, of course, but you're not judging by keeping yourself away from known negative spiritual influences where the old enemy is at work.

 

[pointer]

(tomwebster;5666)
====================n2, I agree
There are not many who wish to be known as false Christians.

 

[servant_of_the_end]

(pointer;5658)
How can anyone know that you feel that? There is no way that anyone can prove themselves Christian, not even by martyrdom.
We confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts. Our outward confession doesn't prove much unless we know in our hearts and believe, so I can see your point knowing that only two can search our hearts to validate our confession; and those two are the searcher of hearts - the Almighty - and ourselves. However our inward faith and confession should display a character towards repentence and righteousness and a pursuit of holiness. Our brother John said as much when he said this:1 John 314 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. 16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence

 

[pointer]

(servant_of_the_end;5671)
We confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts. Our outward confession doesn't prove much unless we know in our hearts and believe, so I can see your point knowing that only two can search our hearts to validate our confession; and those two are the searcher of hearts - the Almighty - and ourselves. However our inward faith and confession should display a character towards repentence and righteousness and a pursuit of holiness.
Quite so. In a church situation, the members can and must assess how much any one member pursues holiness, and remove anyone who fails to meet their requirements. Outside the church, in discussion forums to which all and sundry can gain access, that is impossible. The only evidence that a Christian will furnish in a forum is that which is checkable from Scripture, historical documents, or other, similar sources. To allow feelings as evidence is to open the door to things taught by demons.
Our brother John
Can you prove that John is your brother, or mine? I'm not suggesting that you are not his brother, just that you should not assert things that cannot be known.
This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence
John knew those he wrote to.

 

[servant_of_the_end]

PointerGood points and I will not argue over simple truths; yet you suggest that faith cannot be proven even by martyrdom. Who is willing to die for anyone unless the one they serve is a higher power? We have have the servants of the Dragon aka Muslims who do so, yet they do it for service to thier master Allah- who is a minion of Satan and a Fallen One. Martyrdom occurs when one serves another and proves much and is born of faith, the only problem is that none can ultimately prove for which power or authority the martyr served- but it does demonstrate faith.Now as to your literate analysis of fact-checking faith over a digital medium- you are correct. Anyone with knowledge can assert anything and we have no witness or testimony to validate theirs or our own words.As to John, I clearly cited him as 'our brother' and since we cannot confirm our faith respectively it was meant to suggest that as confessors of the Lord Yeshua he would be and will always be our brother. For us who are are servants I can also claim his as a fellow servant, and do from time to time when the occasion warrants.

 

[pointer]

(servant_of_the_end;5677)
PointerGood points and I will not argue over simple truths; yet you suggest that faith cannot be proven even by martyrdom. Who is willing to die for anyone unless the one they serve is a higher power? We have have the servants of the Dragon aka Muslims who do so, yet they do it for service to thier master Allah- who is a minion of Satan and a Fallen One. Martyrdom occurs when one serves another and proves much and is born of faith, the only problem is that none can ultimately prove for which power or authority the martyr served- but it does demonstrate faith.Now as to your literate analysis of fact-checking faith over a digital medium- you are correct. Anyone with knowledge can assert anything and we have no witness or testimony to validate theirs or our own words.As to John, I clearly cited him as 'our brother' and since we cannot confirm our faith respectively it was meant to suggest that as confessors of the Lord Yeshua he would be and will always be our brother. For us who are are servants I can also claim his as a fellow servant, and do from time to time when the occasion warrants.
But you're assuming that I'm a servant, which I might not be. One can reasonably say that John is a brother to the saints, but it cannot even be proved that John died faithful to Christ.'The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.' Rom 8:19 NIV

 

[servant_of_the_end]

If I implied that you are also a servant then I erred in not being definative enough as to what I meant. When I wrote "For us who are servants", I was including any and all who might be and did not mean to include you. And you are correct, if I read you correctly and drawing some conclusions from what you write, that nothing can be proved and nothing, as to our faith, can be really be known about each other over the internet. We will have to wait until that day when we stand before the Throne and all is revealed.'The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.' Rom 8:19 NIVNow I haven't read this in quite a while and it has become new to me. The word of the Lord makes this quote of our brother Paul come to life- for me that is, since I haven't read this scripture since I started receiving the word of the Lord. If you like I can post it or send it to you. When I received this word I was a bit astonished to find that the sons of God, who witnessed creation, would be replaced before the Throne. There is another named Art Katz, who has received like revelation and has written of it. Here is his website and you will find some of the best writing to be had at this site.http://www.benisrael.org/index.html