Does God love burning people in hell?

[St. SteVen]

But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

Thanks. Are you done beating me up? It's been most encouraging.

 

[PinSeeker]

It could equally be understood as, I am saying to you today...

Nope. Not without changing what He said into something very different than what it was/is. The Greek is what it is.

...for the comma want invented until a very long time after the conversation was first recorded, and was inserted according to the preconceived ideas of the translators.

Some of them, yes.

What must guide our understanding is the context and the plain reading of the rest of scripture.

Agreed.

First, the context.

Right, we disagree on the context. Maybe you can explain what you mean by this.

Jesus did not ascend into paradise that day.

Or maybe this is your "explanation," but this is just a statement, an assertion. Regarding His actual physical ascension, I agree; His physical ascension was more than a month after His crucifixion. Physically, he was in the grave for three days, just as He said would be the case, and I'm sure you agree. But His spirit, which He offered up to the Father at His death, was not.

Let me ask you, Brakelite, where is Jesus right now? In heaven, right? Seated at the right hand of God. And one great day, He will return physically; we are waiting for that day. So how is it that He is with us now, and even unto the end of the age, as He told His disciples ~ and by extension us ~ in Matthew 28:20?

. Physically, He was in the grave for three days, just as He said He would be, but His spiritual lo...but this is nothing but a statement from you. He physically ascended, as documented in Acts 2, but His spirit was separated from a time from His physical body (three days). He committed His Sp, but John's gospel is very different than the other three, Luke's included, and Luke was the author of Acts.

Second, there is no other event or experience in scripture that would harmonize with the idea that someone could go to heaven spiritually, outside of his body.

Throughout its history, the church has struggled with the concept of what is called the “intermediate state” ~ our position between the time we die and the time Christ consummates His kingdom and fulfills the promises that we confess. We believe in the resurrection of the body. We believe there will be a time when God reunites our soul and our body, and that we will have a glorified body even as Christ came out of the tomb as the “firstborn from the dead.” In the meantime, the most common view has been that, at death, the soul immediately goes to be with God and there is a continuity of personal existence. There is no interruption of life at the end of this life, but we continue to be alive in our personal souls upon death. The overall teaching of Scripture, even in the Old Testament, where the bosom of Abraham was seen as the place of the afterlife, there is this persistent notion of continuity. Paul put it this way: To live in this world is good; the greatest thing that can ever happen is to be participating in the final resurrection. But the intermediate state is even better; Paul said that he was caught between two things. On the one hand, his desire was to depart and be with Christ, which is far better, and on the other hand, he had a desire to remain alive and continue his ministry on this earth. But the apostle’s judgment that the passing beyond the veil of death to that intermediate state is far better than this one gives us a clue, along with a host of other passages. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise.” And too, Jesus's parable in Luke 16 also indicates that there is a continuity of life and of consciousness in that intermediate state.

The spirit of man as a separate living conscious entity with the ability to communicate, think, and act independent of the body is an idea of occult paganism and does not belong in Christian doctrine.

Agreed. I would never suggest such a thing. Right now, your spirit and your physical body are united and one entity, and one day, they will be reunited.

If God is Spirit, and God only is immortal, then He is the only immortal Spirit.

Ah, the inability to distinguish between the physical and the spiritual. You're not alone. How do you reconcile what you say here with the following?

"...to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life..." (Romans 2:7)

"For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.'” (1 Corinthians 15:53-54)

Glad to hear you're not a Jehovah's Witness.

Grace and peace to you, Brakelite.

 

[Brakelite]

@PinSeeker
We are given many truths throughout scripture, on many different topics, and I'm sure you would agree with me that we cannot use a random interpretation of a scriptural teaching, say in the NT, that is contrary to that which is given us in the OT. The first time any teaching is given in scripture, must remain the truth throughout all time. It doesn't change. So when Moses wrote in Genesis, that when man was created and God (Jesus) formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him the breath of life, (the spirit), man became a living soul. Later teachings expand on this a little, when scripture says when man returns to dust, and the breath of life returns to God, the consciousness of man ceases. He truly dies, or as Jesus explained to Mary when raising Lazarus, he sleeps, at least until he is woken up. Daniel 12:2 concurs with this, as do numerous other scriptures throughout the OT. The NT does not change these facts, notwithstanding

the most common view

The Jews throughout the OT had their misunderstandings also, which Jesus went to great pains to correct. Israel's dalliance with the occult throughout their existence helped to inculcate into their psyche much error. The Christian church is no less a victim of the same, particularly in the Roman church which has adopted numerous pagan concepts and practices, baptized them in order to make them appear to be of Godly origin, and then bequeathed them to a protestant church too lazy, blind, proud or stubborn maybe to carefully study scripture and discover truth. I could discuss many examples of this, some of which some churches of the protestant paradigm have changed, but some important ones they cleave to with all their might.
But for this present discussion, the duel nature of man is pagan. The natural immortality of man is pagan. The idea of an afterlife without a physical resurrection is pagan. And all of this beliefs have contributed to the idea that Christians can pray to and for the dead, and speak to and interact with dead relatives. Christians who accept these pagan ideas have no scriptural defense against the deluding and deceiving lies of demonic powers who can and do impressively and accurately impersonate loved ones in visions, near death experiences, and dreams, even in real apparitions,. Including those of "Mary". Because Christians believe that men and women continue to live in a spiritual realm after death, they have no biblical basis to fight back against being utterly deceived by Satan and his agents counterfeiting their late mum and grandma.

 

[MatthewG]

Sounds like gas lighting being done here!

Please remember to never believe what anyone says about the bible.

Be encouraged to read and ask questions to your Father in heaven, and see if he leads you the right way over men!


Be weary and careful, and may we all be able to love even if one may not agree to the tenants or principles another person may have their mind set towards.

People are free to believe but be encouraged to seek and search for truth and talk to your Father in heaven in jesus name.


God bless.0

 

[St. SteVen]

Good post, thanks. I have a few comments. (ask God if they are true or false, thanks)

Please remember to never believe what anyone says about the bible.

Perhaps that is going too far?
I understand what you are saying, but our Pastors and leaders, and other
Christian brothers and sisters are a great source for understanding.

My best advice: "Eat the meat, spit out the bones."

Our spirit of discernment should resonate with spiritual truth.
Questions should be researched with divine guidance. (as you suggested)

Be encouraged to read and ask questions to your Father in heaven, and see if he leads you the right way over men!

I agree.
However, we also have a responsibility that comes with what we learn in that practice.
Just because God reveals something to us, doesn't mean it is to be broadcast to the world as "God's Word".
And it certainly is not intended to use as a weapon to chastise others.

I see posters on the forum playing "the God Card" to win a debate.

Be weary and careful, and may we all be able to love even if one may not agree to the tenants or principles another person may have their mind set towards.

Right.
Build bridges, not walls.

People are free to believe but be encouraged to seek and search for truth and talk to your Father in heaven in jesus name.

AMEN!

 

[Jack]

Could God save everyone if He wanted to? Of course He could. Alas:

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be who find it.

 

[MatthewG]

Good post, thanks. I have a few comments. (ask God if they are true or false, thanks)

Perhaps that is going too far?
I understand what you are saying, but our Pastors and leaders, and other
Christian brothers and sisters are a great source for understanding.

I do not think, going to God, and if an able body person is able to read it. To study it, they can take in advice and insights from others, but they should not just accept what maybe what one persons says; only to be persented with another possibility.

To me, its good to study and know the bible on your own, asking God to help you understand, with perhaps helps with a Thompson Chain Scripture study bible.

So many different topics and subjects and information on places in the bible, so while im not opposed to bring in new information? That information needs to be tested by the spirit if it is indeed true or not, and does it cause someone to love more, or love less.

My best advice: "Eat the meat, spit out the bones."

Sure. Interesting phrase.

Our spirit of discernment should resonate with spiritual truth.

Yes; love.

Questions should be researched with divine guidance. (as you suggested)

I agree.
However, we also have a responsibility that comes with what we learn in that practice.

That is important to keep in mind.

Just because God reveals something to us, doesn't mean it is to be broadcast to the world as "God's Word".

People who learn things should help other willing people who wanna learn about the bible, out. To let them know what you believe is true which can happen through a period of time and not all at once.

And it certainly is not intended to use as a weapon to chastise others.

Yes, people can use the bible as a knife and cut them to shreds ; some even leave the faith. My hope is that one day we leave here and go to be with God because of the Lord Jesus, and to love is what is told to be done.

I see posters on the forum playing "the God Card" to win a debate.

Most of the time people as of lately have been seeing me talk about the church, and period and time which jesus and the apostles were in, and his coming to them.

Its not to take hope away from people; its to reassure them they to will go on the same way after death.

Right.
Build bridges, not walls.

AMEN!

 

[St. SteVen]

Another good post, thanks.

I do not think, going to God, and if an able body person is able to read it. To study it, they can take in advice and insights from others, but they should not just accept what maybe what one persons says; only to be persented with another possibility.

Right.
You may get a variety of different biblical opinions.
Then you need to sort through what you learned and make your own conclusion.

To me, its good to study and know the bible on your own, asking God to help you understand, with perhaps helps with a Thompson Chain Scripture study bible.

Yes. That's primary.
Not everyone is willing, or able, to do that.
We need to discern whether the person we are talking to has done that.
Many just spout what they have heard, with no consideration for real honest study.

I used to teach Adult Sunday School and other Bible studies.
Some show up with a cereal bowl (wanted to be fed), and others show up with a shovel. (ready to dig in/participate)

So many different topics and subjects and information on places in the bible, so while im not opposed to bring in new information? That information needs to be tested by the spirit if it is indeed true or not, and does it cause someone to love more, or love less.

Situations in life may drive us to deeper study as well.

A sister-in-law who declared that she "couldn't believe in a God that would send people to hell", sent me on a deep dive to study the issue. And a respected Christian brother that said he didn't believe in a forever burning hell caught my attention. (a word in season)

Anyway, I think you and I are pretty much on the same page here. Thanks for such a great topic.

 

[Taken]

Does God love burning people in hell?​

Op^

God loves Righteousness.
1) Are there any PEOPLE in hell? No
2) Shall there ever be PEOPLE in hell? Yes
3)Shall God EVER BE THE CAUSE of an ALIVE Person to be burned to DEATH…instantly? Yes.


Elaborating…examples.
1) A Person is an alive body with a living soul in the body. Currently in hell are unsaved (separated from God) living souls departed out of physically dead body’s.

2) Dead body’s (of unsaved living souls) shall be raised from their grave, to Hell, and their souls returned to their risen body’s. They shall then SEE the Son of man, and THEN believe He is the Son of God, and bow down and Worship Him. (Which will fulfill scriptural Prophecy.) Thereafter they receive their judgement and sentence According to the Evidence in the BOOKS. Their NAME will not appear in the BOOKS as being SAVED. Their LIFE in their soul (Gods Breath) shall depart their body, and return to God. Their DEAD LIFELESS BODY and DEAD LIFELESS SOUL, shall be burned and forgotten.

3) After Christ’s 1,000 year reign. Satan is loosed from Hell, to influence the Worlds Nations, which are ALL and HAVE been for 1,000 years mortals BELIEVING IN JESUS.
A mortal man who would LOOK at God would instantly be destroyed by His Brightness.
And a mortal man (as has occured for centuries) has and can quickly be tricked and fooled to STOP BELIEVING in Jesus, and fall for Satans ear-tickling words.

Anciently, (First Tribulations from Heaven upon the Earth and its inhabitants ) …. Has a Second and Last REPEAT of Destruction, in similitude to the First.

Anciently, God Expressly revealed He would Destroy the Earth WITH THE EARTH. The First was with WATER, via effects of Weather which God Controls and releases at His WILL. The Last is destruction with FIRE, via effect of Weather which God Controls and releases at His WILL. Maybe think LIGHTENING BOLTS, which are a powerful weather energy source, Controlled by God, which CAN and DO instantly destroy by burning.

 

[MatthewG]

Be mindful and think for yourself.

 

[St. SteVen]

Be mindful and think for yourself.

I just launched a new topic on this subject. Please join in. Thanks.

Skepticism versus gullibility

Just heard a sermon that came down pretty hard on skepticism. Trying to process how I feel about that. Thanks for listening. (send help) It appears that there is no room for healthy skepticism in the church. But for some reason the skeptics weren't called gullible. No one was, actually. We are...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[PinSeeker]

We are given many truths throughout scripture, on many different topics, and I'm sure you would agree with me that we cannot use a random interpretation of a scriptural teaching, say in the NT, that is contrary to that which is given us in the OT.

Well, Brakelite, I would submit to you that there is no Scriptural teaching in the New Testament that is contrary to... "that which is given us"... in the Old Testament.

The first time any teaching is given in scripture, must remain the truth throughout all time. It doesn't change. So when Moses wrote in Genesis, that when man was created and God (Jesus) formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him the breath of life, (the spirit), man became a living soul. Later teachings expand on this a little, when scripture says when man returns to dust, and the breath of life returns to God, the consciousness of man ceases. He truly dies, or as Jesus explained to Mary when raising Lazarus, he sleeps, at least until he is woken up. Daniel 12:2 concurs with this, as do numerous other scriptures throughout the OT. The NT does not change these facts, notwithstanding

The Jews throughout the OT had their misunderstandings also, which Jesus went to great pains to correct. Israel's dalliance with the occult throughout their existence helped to inculcate into their psyche much error. The Christian church is no less a victim of the same, particularly in the Roman church which has adopted numerous pagan concepts and practices, baptized them in order to make them appear to be of Godly origin, and then bequeathed them to a protestant church too lazy, blind, proud or stubborn maybe to carefully study scripture and discover truth. I could discuss many examples of this, some of which some churches of the protestant paradigm have changed, but some important ones they cleave to with all their might.

But for this present discussion, the duel nature of man is pagan.

Excuse the correction, please, but the word is 'dual.' And as I said, No one is advocating in any way what we might call dualism. Even as you quote above from Genesis, yes, man is a living soul.

The natural immortality of man is pagan.

Well, it's just... unhinged from reality.

The idea of an afterlife without a physical resurrection is pagan.

Are you suggesting that you think I am saying such? Surely not. Yes, when Jesus comes back, we will not be... ghosts...

And all of this beliefs have contributed to the idea that Christians can pray to and for the dead, and speak to and interact with dead relatives.

Okay, well, I'm totally with ya, Brakelite, that praying to and for the dead and speaking to and interacting with dead relatives are ridiculous notions. I have no idea how you have gone off into all this based somehow on anything I have said or insinuated.

Wow.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

"couldn't believe in a God that would send people to hell",

You're not thinking enough yet.
You still have time.

See, this idea that God sends.......people to hell, is a wrong understanding.

What God does is allows them to go where they chose to Go by not trusting in Christ.

Now....If you can wrap your head around this reality....

A.) Heaven and Hell are eternal destinations......the beginning.

There is a WAY to NOT Go to Hell, which is the WAY you go to Heaven.

Jesus is The WAY....... John 14:6

So, when a person will not believe in THE WAY to Heaven, then they chose to not go to heaven, and there is only one other place available.

A.) God honors their choice, also.


And....This might surprise you to learn, = that God is not going to have Christ Rejectors, and Born Again Believers in Christ, in the same Place, (Heaven).

Have you noticed that the Devil is down here?

 

[MatthewG]

everyone went to hell even Jesus


It was only hntil Jesus rose again by the spirit of God that the heavenly realm and the kingdom entry had just began.

Atleast that is what i believe by faith.


All people went to hell until Jesus having victory over death; and then eventually everyone in hell (souls) were dumped even of those who were at the beginning.

And hell is then done away with.




Leave for people to either be resurrected placed outside the city away from God (which would be hell to some - unless they wanted that idk how it would be hell then).


You also have those who go in the kingdom.

 

[Brakelite]

Well, Brakelite, I would submit to you that there is no Scriptural teaching in the New Testament that is contrary to... "that which is given us"... in the Old Testament.




Excuse the correction, please, but the word is 'dual.' And as I said, No one is advocating in any way what we might call dualism. Even as you quote above from Genesis, yes, man is a living soul.


Well, it's just... unhinged from reality.


Are you suggesting that you think I am saying such? Surely not. Yes, when Jesus comes back, we will not be... ghosts...


Okay, well, I'm totally with ya, Brakelite, that praying to and for the dead and speaking to and interacting with dead relatives are ridiculous notions. I have no idea how you have gone off into all this based somehow on anything I have said or insinuated.

Wow.

Grace and peace to you.

Not on what you have said or insinuated, but it is a natural progression, and common among Christian faiths to do just that. Even the lead actor in "The Chosen" , the equivalent to a33rd degree freemason, speaks to and receives responses from dead saints. Such abominations would not be so commonplace if people understood the truth regarding the state of the dead... That they know nothing. They don't praise God. They can neither see nor hear nor have anything more to do with anything on the earth.

 

[St. SteVen]

You're not thinking enough yet.
You still have time.

Wow. Thanks.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

 

[Keiw]

God is a righteous and good judge that burns human beings forever in a pit of fire to burn alive forever until they are dead?

Let me introduce you to the true God--The one you are not taught by the teachers of darkness who teach a literal Eternal suffering.
Deut 32:4--ALL of Gods ways are justice.--Do you understand justice? God taught all real justice= an eye for an eye.= Gods perfect justice.
So for 70-100 years of an unrepented life, God could not or would not punish one for trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering--Do you see an eye for an eye in that scenario? Its more like an eye for a gazillion eyes. Not the true Gods justice.
Symbolism taught in the NT about eternal suffering. Proof-it says the place where the worm dieth not--No worm in existence could survive more than 1 hour in a hot firey place=Reality--6 feet under is where the worm dieth not.
The symbolism isas follows--Those not allowed into Gods kingdom, traded 70-100years ofa sinful life and will miss out on trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years---As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, they miss each day, they miss each day of Gods love, it never ends them missing each day--likened to be an eternal suffering.
The true God set before all-Deut 30:19--LIFE or DEATH) both will be everlasting.--This is the true God--Run from those teaching the sadist who teaches what you are taught, they do not know him.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank God the true God still has a place for unbelievers to go outside the kingdom. Though they have a loss i dont think they die in the afterlife despite what some people may suggest due to Gods will.

 

[Brakelite]

Thank God the true God still has a place for unbelievers to go outside the kingdom. Though they have a loss i dont think they die in the afterlife despite what some people may suggest due to Gods will.

The gift of eternal life is for the redeemed. Everyone else dies. Everyone else is outside the city .. The liars, the murderers, the adulterers etc, and the wages of sin is death.

 

[MatthewG]

???