Does "God" only Exist in our Brain?

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Fire-7

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Feb 8, 2011
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I appreciate all of the sincere feedback. And I am taking these things into account. But most of it is religious jargon to me. It makes no sense at all. And I simply cannot worship a God who requires that I sacrifies my brain (intelligence), in order to please him.

Can you watch the people in these clips http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyJI9xDUYV8 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDCWnclzKs&playnext=1&list=PLDCEF0436EE52F260 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50r0CnKq7_k&feature=related , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlK-9q10mkc (which is only the tip of the ice berg) and tell me that christianity is good for your mind?

I genuinely feel in my heart of hearts that this is where my sense of isolation comes from. I just don't think that any of you will ever understand where I'm coming from.

Thank you
 

Robbie

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Can you share with me you're #1 hardest struggle with believing in God. I don't care what some scientist said just like I'm sure you don't care what some pastor says (I don't care what pastor's say either) haha

But I'm interested... I have no interest in converting you because I don't believe I can.. but I am interested in why you feel the way you do.

Robbie...
 

IanLC

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Mar 22, 2011
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Why is there so much animosity towards churches, pastors, and the faith as a whole? Maybe its what I have learned, what I have been taught, the place I grown up in, my church etc. I dont know but I have never met so many people so hostile or openly hostile toward pastors? Robbie I know you probably have a good reason why you have those feelings could you explain to me?
 

Fire-7

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Feb 8, 2011
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Can you share with me you're #1 hardest struggle with believing in God. I don't care what some scientist said just like I'm sure you don't care what some pastor says (I don't care what pastor's say either) haha

But I'm interested... I have no interest in converting you because I don't believe I can.. but I am interested in why you feel the way you do.

Robbie...


I will try to narrow it down to one thing. But I'm not sure if I can. It's the issue of free will and predestination that I have the most trouble with. I don't understand why God "chooses" anyone. Why can't everyone be special? Why does God make some people more important than others? I've heard that "favor isn't fair", but why isn't it? Plus, despite what most christians say, there ARE a lot of contradictions in the bible, and I don't know how anyone could seriously read all of the bible and say that there is not. I've never understood why God would allow suffering, and I still don't understand.

These are all issues of equal importance, that I have trouble with. And I've heard every rebuttle argument in the book. And I'm not buying any of it. But trust me; it's not because I want to be a rebel. If God really is "good", then I never want to do anything wrong, anything that could hurt Him. But I don't see the biblical God as being "good." To me, He comes off as a great deceiver. And my biggest fear is being deceived.
 

Guestman

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I appreciate all of the sincere feedback. And I am taking these things into account. But most of it is religious jargon to me. It makes no sense at all. And I simply cannot worship a God who requires that I sacrifies my brain (intelligence), in order to please him.

Can you watch the people in these clips http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyJI9xDUYV8 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDCWnclzKs&playnext=1&list=PLDCEF0436EE52F260 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50r0CnKq7_k&feature=related , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlK-9q10mkc (which is only the tip of the ice berg) and tell me that christianity is good for your mind?

I genuinely feel in my heart of hearts that this is where my sense of isolation comes from. I just don't think that any of you will ever understand where I'm coming from.

Thank you

God wants individuals to use their brain, to use it to reason with, not just randomly accept the religious teachings of the churches as de facto. The apostle Paul wrote: "Consequently I entreat you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason."(Rom 12:1) He further wrote that it is necessary for them "be transformed by making your mind over, that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God."(Rom 12:2)

The man who coined the term “agnostic” was a zoologist by the name of Thomas Huxley. Born in 1825, Huxley was a contemporary of Charles Darwin and a champion of the teaching of evolution. In 1863, Huxley wrote that he could see no evidence that there was a God who “loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts.”

There is, however, overwhelming evidence of a Creator, whose very essence is love.(1 John 4:8) Any machine or a home was designed and built by someone, of which we all readily agree. But, what about the universe and all life ? That there is a Maker of it, Paul says that God's existence can be proven by what he made, saying that "his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable."(Rom 1:20)

Look at the sheer size of the universe (estimated at 15 billion light years across, with one light year equal to approximately 5.9 trillion miles) and it's perfect harmony, along with all the ecological systems that function harmoniously on the earth for life to exist and for our benefit. Apparently, being raised a Pentecostal has not provided you with any resounding proof that God exists, for the churches have grossly failed in this regard.

Lets look at some examples: What is lighter than cotton, yet ounce for ounce is stronger than steel ? The silk produced by orb-weaving spiders -dragline silk, which is the strongest of the seven silks these spiders can produce. The manufacture of industrial fibers such as Kevlar requires high temperatures and the use of organic solvents. In contrast, spiders produce silk at room temperature, using water as a solvent. Furthermore, dragline silk is tougher than Kevlar. If enlarged to the size of a football field, a web of dragline silk 0.4 inch [1 cm] thick with strands 1.6 inches [4 cm] apart could stop a jumbo jet in flight ! Did the spider and its strong-as-steel silk come about about by chance, or is this the work of an intelligent Creator ?

Consider the human hand, which has a very refined sense of touch. Researchers have found that our hand can detect a dot just three microns high.(A human hair has a diameter of 50 to 100 microns). However, according to Smithsonian magazine, by "using a texture rather than a dot, the researchers found the hand can detect roughness just 75 nanometers high" - a nanometer being one thousandth of a micron. Such remarkable sensitivity is attributed to about 2,500 touch receptors in each fingertip. Is the sensitivity of our fingers accident or design ?

Man has built huge airplanes. But how much more versatile are the birds, including the hummingbird, which weighs less than an ounce [30 gm]! A Boeing 747 must carry 47,000 gallons [180,000 L.] of fuel, be operated by a trained crew, and employ complex navigation systems to make a transoceanic crossing. Yet, a tiny hummingbird relies on one thirtieth of an ounce [1 gm] of fatty fuel to carry it all the way from North America, across the Gulf of Mexico, and into South America. No heavy load of fuel, no training in navigation, no complicated charts or computers! Did this ability result from a chance process of evolution? Hardly! This tiny bird is instinctively wise, being programmed thus by its Creator, Jehovah God.

This is only "the tip of the iceberg" of evidence of God. We are encouraged to examine this and more proof of God's existence and his right as Sovereign of the universe, to use our "power of reason", proving to ourselves that there is a Creator. This may take some time, but it is well worth the travel, for then you can come to know who the Creator is and why he made the universe and life on the earth, not that he just exists.
 

Robbie

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Jan 4, 2011
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Huntington Beeach
I will try to narrow it down to one thing. But I'm not sure if I can. It's the issue of free will and predestination that I have the most trouble with. I don't understand why God "chooses" anyone. Why can't everyone be special? Why does God make some people more important than others? I've heard that "favor isn't fair", but why isn't it? Plus, despite what most christians say, there ARE a lot of contradictions in the bible, and I don't know how anyone could seriously read all of the bible and say that there is not. I've never understood why God would allow suffering, and I still don't understand.

These are all issues of equal importance, that I have trouble with. And I've heard every rebuttle argument in the book. And I'm not buying any of it. But trust me; it's not because I want to be a rebel. If God really is "good", then I never want to do anything wrong, anything that could hurt Him. But I don't see the biblical God as being "good." To me, He comes off as a great deceiver. And my biggest fear is being deceived.

I pretty much agree with all of that and I totally understand where you're coming from... thanks for sharing...
 

WhiteKnuckle

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God doesn't make other's more important. That's a man made deal there.

God puts some people in authority, but, the authority is nothing without followers and workers. Each person has a role to play and each part is vital and equally important.

God makes His decisions based on what He knows about us.

If you're not a leader, you wont lead, if you're not a follower then you can't follow.

Basically, You can't have the guitar player playing the drums.

You are the one saying other's are important, and some aren't special.

Despite what unbelievers say, there are no contradictions in the Bible. Where we have contradictions is when we try to interpret the word of God without consulting Him.

You are building another straw man.

Point blank, You're a homosexual that can't stand the idea that it's wrong in God's eyes. You're trying to find a way to make yourself feel better about your lifestyle. You're trying to convince yourself that God isn't real, or that the Bible shouldn't be followed.

Stop lying to yourself, stop lying to us!
 
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Guestman

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I know that the classic justification for the existence of hell is that "Hell is man's choice, not G-d's choice." This sounds very religiously correct, indeed. But to me, rational it's just a cop-out. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would choose to burn in hell for eternity. I know I wouldn't. Someone might choose to do every sin under the sun. But that doesn't mean that he wants to go to hell. I think that if G-d gave every person on earth a chance to take a tour of hell, there would not be one single person in 7 billion, who would say "I want to go there."

No - hell is not man's choice; hell is G-d's choice. Man is not omnipotent, mnipresent, omniscient - G-d is. Man did not create hell ":for the devil and his angels," - G-d did. Man doesn't even have that kind of power. G-d started it all. So, I don't know why preachers turn around and say to man, "you started it." But it's not logical.

Plain and simple, there is no burning hell, that some are saying that God created. And here's why. The apostle John wrote: "He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love."(1 John 4:8) He then says: "By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him."(1 John 4:9) Did Jesus show love ? Most certainly yes ! When before a leprous man, with the man earnestly requesting to "make me clean" of his leprosy, Jesus responded: "I want to. Be made clean."(Matt 8:2, 3) Jesus felt compassion for this leprous man, not indignation.

Jesus perfectly reflected his Father's love, saying that "he that has seen me has seen the Father also." (John 14:9) When "Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. On seeing the crowds he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd."(Matt 9:35, 36) Jesus felt pity, not hostility, for the crowds, because these had been "skinned and thrown about" by the religious leaders. Pity does not torment people.

It was the religious leaders who were harsh and abusive, not Jesus. For example, according to the Pharisees distorted view of the sabbath, if a wall fell on a man on the sabbath, the sufferer could not be given relief unless death threatened. A bone could not be set, nor a sprain bandaged. These oppressed the common people, the ‛am ha·’a´rets, (Hebrew meaning "people of the land").

The religious leaders, instead of imitating God's love, opposed Jesus, such as when Jesus healed a man with a withered hand on the sabbath.(Matt 12:9-13) These religious leaders, rather than seeing that Jesus was from God, now sought to destroy him.(Matt 12:14) Just as the religious leaders of Jesus day twisted God's word, so likewise have the religious leaders of Christendom twisted the Bible, having formulated the doctrine of hellfire and distorted what Jesus said, with many Bible translators also guilty in this regard.

These religious leaders, on the one hand, say that God is gracious, merciful, loving, but on the other hand, say that he is fiend, someone who is a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, by promoting the doctrine that he torments people in a hellfire for all eternity, for even simple crimes committed in "this life". Yet these fail to realize that the penalty for sin, is not everlasting torment, but death. The apostle Paul wrote that "the wages sin pays is death".(Rom 6:23) Hence, once a person has died, he has paid the ultimate penalty for sin (Hebrew chat·ta’th, meaning "to miss"´), by missing the "mark" of perfect obedience to our Creator. Every person born, with the exception of Jesus, are sinners, and when having died, has paid for their sins. This has wiped the slate "clean" for their sins, unless these have sinned against the holy spirit.(Matt 12:31, 32)

At Jeremiah 32:35, God said of the nation of Israel around 609 B.C.E., saying: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jer 32:35)

How could God condemn the nation of Israel for burning their sons and daughters in the fire to Molech, calling it an "abomination", a "sin", and yet torment people in an everlasting fire ? This, does not fit with God's intrinsic quality of love. The religious leaders, in tandem with many Bible translators, have twisted Jesus words at such scriptures as at Matthew 5:22, 29, 30, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:9 by rendering the Greek word hades as "hell" and the Greek word Gehenna as "hellfire".

These are presenting God as a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, hideous on one side and loving on the other. This a twisted distortion of our Creator, for to Moses was revealed God's personality, with an angel saying: "Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth, preserving loving-kindness for thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin."

However, he cannot allow free reign of debase desires, for just as any loving father must impose discipline in a home when the "house rules" are intentionally broken, so likewise must God impose judgments, saying that he will "by no means will he give exemption from punishment, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”(Ex 34:6, 7)

Hence, our Creator, Jehovah God, does not torment anyone in a "hellfire", which is an "abomination" to him, but insures that justice be served.(Deut 32:4)
 

WhiteKnuckle

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Mar 29, 2009
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Plain and simple, there is no burning hell, that some are saying that God created. And here's why. The apostle John wrote: "He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love."(1 John 4:8) He then says: "By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him."(1 John 4:9) Did Jesus show love ? Most certainly yes ! When before a leprous man, with the man earnestly requesting to "make me clean" of his leprosy, Jesus responded: "I want to. Be made clean."(Matt 8:2, 3) Jesus felt compassion for this leprous man, not indignation.

Jesus perfectly reflected his Father's love, saying that "he that has seen me has seen the Father also." (John 14:9) When "Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. On seeing the crowds he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd."(Matt 9:35, 36) Jesus felt pity, not hostility, for the crowds, because these had been "skinned and thrown about" by the religious leaders. Pity does not torment people.

It was the religious leaders who were harsh and abusive, not Jesus. For example, according to the Pharisees distorted view of the sabbath, if a wall fell on a man on the sabbath, the sufferer could not be given relief unless death threatened. A bone could not be set, nor a sprain bandaged. These oppressed the common people, the ‛am ha·’a´rets, (Hebrew meaning "people of the land").

The religious leaders, instead of imitating God's love, opposed Jesus, such as when Jesus healed a man with a withered hand on the sabbath.(Matt 12:9-13) These religious leaders, rather than seeing that Jesus was from God, now sought to destroy him.(Matt 12:14) Just as the religious leaders of Jesus day twisted God's word, so likewise have the religious leaders of Christendom twisted the Bible, having formulated the doctrine of hellfire and distorted what Jesus said, with many Bible translators also guilty in this regard.

These religious leaders, on the one hand, say that God is gracious, merciful, loving, but on the other hand, say that he is fiend, someone who is a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, by promoting the doctrine that he torments people in a hellfire for all eternity, for even simple crimes committed in "this life". Yet these fail to realize that the penalty for sin, is not everlasting torment, but death. The apostle Paul wrote that "the wages sin pays is death".(Rom 6:23) Hence, once a person has died, he has paid the ultimate penalty for sin (Hebrew chat·ta’th, meaning "to miss"´), by missing the "mark" of perfect obedience to our Creator. Every person born, with the exception of Jesus, are sinners, and when having died, has paid for their sins. This has wiped the slate "clean" for their sins, unless these have sinned against the holy spirit.(Matt 12:31, 32)

At Jeremiah 32:35, God said of the nation of Israel around 609 B.C.E., saying: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jer 32:35)

How could God condemn the nation of Israel for burning their sons and daughters in the fire to Molech, calling it an "abomination", a "sin", and yet torment people in an everlasting fire ? This, does not fit with God's intrinsic quality of love. The religious leaders, in tandem with many Bible translators, have twisted Jesus words at such scriptures as at Matthew 5:22, 29, 30, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:9 by rendering the Greek word hades as "hell" and the Greek word Gehenna as "hellfire".

These are presenting God as a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, hideous on one side and loving on the other. This a twisted distortion of our Creator, for to Moses was revealed God's personality, with an angel saying: "Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth, preserving loving-kindness for thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin."

However, he cannot allow free reign of debase desires, for just as any loving father must impose discipline in a home when the "house rules" are intentionally broken, so likewise must God impose judgments, saying that he will "by no means will he give exemption from punishment, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”(Ex 34:6, 7)

Hence, our Creator, Jehovah God, does not torment anyone in a "hellfire", which is an "abomination" to him, but insures that justice be served.(Deut 32:4)

Hell isn't burning, the Lake of fire is burning. Hell will be cast into the lake of fire. Those without Christ will be cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is real.
 

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Fire-7 said:
But to me, there is nothing fun about people burning in hell and yelling and clawing to get out for all eternity, while G-d ignores them.
Yelling and clawing to get out for all eternity?

They wanted to be there! They demanded to be there and they openly and abjectly denied and rejected God all their lives. The judgment is theirs first and foremost. God simply gives them what they want - eternity apart from Him. There are no innocents in hell. Every soul wanted to be there and deserves to be there.

Sympathy for the damned and vitriol for the Almighty? Standards are backward here - a sign of the times I suppose.

The daughter of Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union who was responsible for 15 to 25 million deaths of his own people, was present at his death bed. Stalin had begun life studying in seminary, but rejected the way of Christ when he discovered that violence and brutality were effective ways to insure worldly success. Stalin's daughter testified that in the last few seconds before his death Stalin raised himself up and with an angry expression on his face shook his fist in the air at God.

Stalin rejected God and all the forgiveness available to him - and he knew it. He knew it.

And when you say that God ignores those who have damned Heaven itself, you are saying the same thing.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...