Does "God" only Exist in our Brain?

[Fire-7]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But being raised a christian pentecostal myself, I have seen people yell, sweat, run, jump, foam at the mouth, speak in tongues, and not to mention the things that I have read about people doing, in the never-ending persuit of God. Many people have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in deep study, over their lifetime...

But the only thing I see, personally and honestly, is confusion on top of confusion. All I see is fighting among Christians, churches, groups and denominations. All I see is endless debates about what God thinks about this and that. But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

It seems to me that this is an every-man-for-himself, get-in-where-you-fit-in, "believe what you want to believe" world, where everyone "believes" but no one knows anything.

This makes me think that maybe there is a desperate, dependent and co-dependent part of every human being that wants so badly to believe that there is stability in the universe, that we follow traditional beliefs about a God who has everything under "control." We refuse to let go of this belief, because to do so would force us to face a very cold reality. Maybe the biggest addiction in this world is not drugs, sex, or entertainment. Maybe our biggest addiction is the belief in "God?"

Despite the way this sounds, I'm not an atheist. I don't claim any belief system other than what I was brought up in (christianity). And even this I am seriously questioning. something just isn't adding up for me. And I feel that the most vivid reality is that much of what we believe about the "spirit" world is wishful thinking.

I just wonder

 

[justaname]

I would suggest you read some apologetics. Try Bob Dutko's top ten proofs for the existence of God. They may give you some deeper insight into things. One thing I can say is I know a little prayer. Say to God with confidence, Surely Father you are here. Give me some sign to know it is you. Be patient. It might not happen right away, but he will answer you. It could be an overwhelming sense of peace or warmth. He could bring an event or person to memory. He might give you a dream at night. Some are as so bold to be specific with their sign. But I don't want to put you off if nothing happens.

toptenproofs.com

 

[Rach1370]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But being raised a christian pentecostal myself, I have seen people yell, sweat, run, jump, foam at the mouth, speak in tongues, and not to mention the things that I have read about people doing, in the never-ending persuit of God. Many people have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in deep study, over their lifetime...

But the only thing I see, personally and honestly, is confusion on top of confusion. All I see is fighting among Christians, churches, groups and denominations. All I see is endless debates about what God thinks about this and that. But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

It seems to me that this is an every-man-for-himself, get-in-where-you-fit-in, "believe what you want to believe" world, where everyone "believes" but no one knows anything.

This makes me think that maybe there is a desperate, dependent and co-dependent part of every human being that wants so badly to believe that there is stability in the universe, that we follow traditional beliefs about a God who has everything under "control." We refuse to let go of this belief, because to do so would force us to face a very cold reality. Maybe the biggest addiction in this world is not drugs, sex, or entertainment. Maybe our biggest addiction is the belief in "God?"

Despite the way this sounds, I'm not an atheist. I don't claim any belief system other than what I was brought up in (christianity). And even this I am seriously questioning. something just isn't adding up for me. And I feel that the most vivid reality is that much of what we believe about the "spirit" world is wishful thinking.

I just wonder

There is no doubt that Christians and denominations fight amongst themselves. But does this indicate no god, or does it indicate sinful mankind?
Let me ask you something: given everything you have seen and read, what explains the universe and all the bad crap the best? Why does a mother smother her newborn baby? Why do tyrants commit genocide? Why does the school yard bully have a need to intimidate and crush the weaker? So many different evils in this world, do you say that it is all unconnected and that there is no hope? Or do we say that it all comes from one root...sin? Even Christians are still slaves to it, and sadly when we give in to it we only reflect ourselves, not God.
You say the world has a god addiction, and I agree. Some people make sex, drugs, fame, self, their gods. Others, needing that 'there is something bigger' will turn to false gods. How, then, do we determine that there is a God, and which one is the true God? Process of elimination, proof and just faith. You say that for thousands of years people have been searching for God, and shouldn't he have shown up by now....well, He did. Christ came into human history and died a painful, horrible, humiliating death for us and our sins. That's showing up in a pretty huge way. And despite what critics and atheists say, there is no historic figure better documented than Jesus Christ. If you truly are searching on this subject, go, read the books covering all this. Lee Stroblel's ones do a pretty good job of touching on the surface of all this.
Christianity is unique to every other religion on this planet. Honestly, look at all the other religions...you will find no other with a figure and a claim like the one Jesus Christ gave when He came. It is possible, on an intellectual level, to find God if you really look. It is possible to really dig into the claims and work of Jesus, if you want to. But when it comes right down to it, it's going to rely on faith. And I tell you, friend, after a look at the world how it is, people how they are, and other religions as they are....I place my trust, my faith, in Christ. Without hesitation, without doubt and without fear. Does this make me a perfect person? No. Does this make me suddenly agree 100% with others? Nope! But it does make me certain that this life in not all....and I'm heading to somewhere infinitely better!! It makes me sure.

 

[[email protected]]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

He did show up.
Two thousand years ago He showed up in the form of a Jew who ranted about God.
The Jews rejected Him because He didn't make the right noises.
He is rejected today for the same reason.

But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

The finality you seek is called DEATH.
Go to a graveyard and meditate on extremes, balance, consistency, substance and subjectivity.
You will see no raging debates there, no hypocrisy, no imbalance or inconsistencies. I grant that substance is being lost daily, but that is a constant nonetheless.

I'M NOT KIDDING. You are expressing a desire for death.
In case you haven't heard, the church is pretty close to death except that the inhabitants there are still breathing.
The modern church is a good substitute for the graveyard, except for the music.

On these pages, at least, there is the semblance of life. Arguing, posturing, yes and even biting. That is the stuff of life.
Visit the forest on a hot summer day. There is all sorts of inconsistency there - including a lot of little creatures that want to bite you and suck your blood.

It's called LIFE.
All this activity testifies to it.
Life is inconsistent. Very inconsistent.
There is NO activity in the grave. Everything is quiet there.

Life is a hard difficult process sometimes and so is the walk with Jesus. The reconciliation that God seeks with us is painful, starting with His own. It begins at the gruesome bloody cross of Jesus and works it's way into the souls and lives of those who accept Him. We live in imperfection and we share it's experience with one another imperfectly. We see imperfectly, yet that which we hope for is perfect.

That which man calls perfection is an illusion. The life which God has created in the world and in us is perfect. It's right there.....right in front of us......yet we can't see it because we've created a veil of our own making between us and God's work. It is the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which we were forbidden to eat.

Now we judge what God has done and what God is doing. We have no right to do so, for it is all perfect.

It seems to me that this is an every-man-for-himself, get-in-where-you-fit-in, "believe what you want to believe" world, where everyone "believes" but no one knows anything.

Well said. There is a lot of smoke and noise coming from empty heads these days. No argument from me on this one.

This makes me think that maybe there is a desperate, dependent and co-dependent part of every human being that wants so badly to believe that there is stability in the universe, that we follow traditional beliefs about a God who has everything under "control." We refuse to let go of this belief, because to do so would force us to face a very cold reality. Maybe the biggest addiction in this world is not drugs, sex, or entertainment. Maybe our biggest addiction is the belief in "God?"

Well said again. Mankind is hard wired for religion.
We MUST worship something, seek something beyond ourselves, and hope for an end to the story other than a box in the ground.
That is testimony to the spirit within each of us. It seeks something beyond itself for satisfaction. The search, the desire and the hunger leads us all in wayward directions. We all seek our own answers, but none seek God. NONE. Not really.

Christ had to come to seek us because we couldn't or wouldn't seek Him.
Having found us, He showed us His healing power, spoke His message and held some of us in His arms.

So we killed Him for it and went about our business looking for other ways to satisfy that hunger within.
Most of us end up eating spiritual junk food instead of the heavenly manna, killing ourselves in the process.

It's a dog eat dog world.
The saddest thing of all is that the dog that takes the biggest bite out of our lives is the one that lives inside each of us.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking ... that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But, that would ruin all His fun.

Time is God's foreplay.

Do you pull in a rowboat by yanking on the rope?

No, you steadily, hand over hand, slowly draw it in.

Then, you tie it up so it doesn't drift away...
but that's another story.

Miss Hepburn

 

[tomwebster]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But being raised a christian pentecostal myself, I have seen people yell, sweat, run, jump, foam at the mouth, speak in tongues, and not to mention the things that I have read about people doing, in the never-ending persuit of God. Many people have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in deep study, over their lifetime...

But the only thing I see, personally and honestly, is confusion on top of confusion. All I see is fighting among Christians, churches, groups and denominations. All I see is endless debates about what God thinks about this and that. But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

It seems to me that this is an every-man-for-himself, get-in-where-you-fit-in, "believe what you want to believe" world, where everyone "believes" but no one knows anything.

This makes me think that maybe there is a desperate, dependent and co-dependent part of every human being that wants so badly to believe that there is stability in the universe, that we follow traditional beliefs about a God who has everything under "control." We refuse to let go of this belief, because to do so would force us to face a very cold reality. Maybe the biggest addiction in this world is not drugs, sex, or entertainment. Maybe our biggest addiction is the belief in "God?"

Despite the way this sounds, I'm not an atheist. I don't claim any belief system other than what I was brought up in (christianity). And even this I am seriously questioning. something just isn't adding up for me. And I feel that the most vivid reality is that much of what we believe about the "spirit" world is wishful thinking.

I just wonder

Karl Marx thought the same thing,
"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

 

[Disciple]

To those that beleive Jesus was made a rock of offence, to those that dont a stumbling stone.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

To those that beleive Jesus was made a rock of offence, to those that dont a stumbling stone.

What do you mean by that ?

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Marriage..........

At first everything seems great and fun and romantic. Later on you realize there's 2 different people involved in one relationship. You argue and compromise, learn and appologize. All of this helps relationships grow.

Sometimes arguing among Christians seems disheartening. Sometimes it goes a little too far. I personally can't stand one person condemning another.
These arguments or disagreements are esential for believers. Every single discussion forces us to carefully review what we think and believe. We're constantly critiguing ourselves as well as others. We're lead to seek God all the more and grow in maturity and as true soldiers.

Our minds are honed by these conversations.

We're also shown that we are all unique individuals and it shows that God deals with us each in a unique way. That's a good thing IMHO, because it shows how intently God knows us.
If all of us were to get along perfectly, I honestly believe that we would inturn start drawing away from God and become arrogant in our own "wisdom". We would feel secure in what we think we know and never ever seek God.

Even when we disagree with someone, we feel alarm and eventually pray for them and pray for the communication with eachother. This also develops us in a loving caring relationship.
For the most part we are all one as in, We believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose again on the third day. The rest is just semantics. One believes we must follow the old law, one believes we don't. So we discuss and become passionate about these.


God is such an important part of all of our lives and our beliefs have been closely held in our hearts and minds. To have them challenged brings about many different emotions, actions and reactions. Not all of them are good, but, all the results are good.

As a matter of fact, having such deep discussions develops a kind of bond with the other person that you wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Fire-7]

But, that would ruin all His fun.

Time is God's foreplay.

Do you pull in a rowboat by yanking on the rope?

No, you steadily, hand over hand, slowly draw it in.

Then, you tie it up so it doesn't drift away...
but that's another story.

Miss Hepburn

But to me, there is nothing fun about people burning in hell and yelling and clawing to get out for all eternity, while G-d ignores them.

 

[Duckybill]

But to me, there is nothing fun about people burning in hell and yelling and clawing to get out for all eternity, while G-d ignores them.

Then they should repent and be saved.

 

[Rach1370]

But to me, there is nothing fun about people burning in hell and yelling and clawing to get out for all eternity, while G-d ignores them.

The thought of people in hell is tragic, yes. But God has not ignored them, He has only given them what they desired. They chose, every day, every time they ignored Him, every time they sinned; against man, against God, against themselves. And sadly we cannot say "But they didn't know!" because every person has a chance to receive or reject God. The Bible is very clear that God is revealed by more than just the preacher. The very universe screams out the presence of a creator, but people actively choose to call it the "big bang" so that they can remain their own gods, be masters of their own fate.
As C.S. Lewis once said....'Either people say to God "thy will be done" or a time will come where God says to people "thy will be done".
It's tragic, but it is their choice. If we feel that it cannot be borne, then that should give us added incentive to spread the gospel, don't you think!?

 

[Guestman]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But being raised a christian pentecostal myself, I have seen people yell, sweat, run, jump, foam at the mouth, speak in tongues, and not to mention the things that I have read about people doing, in the never-ending persuit of God. Many people have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in deep study, over their lifetime...

But the only thing I see, personally and honestly, is confusion on top of confusion. All I see is fighting among Christians, churches, groups and denominations. All I see is endless debates about what God thinks about this and that. But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

Jesus said: "Every kingdom divided against itself comes to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand."(Matt 12:25) This principle is well established, for anything that exhibits disharmony eventually falls apart. How well this speaks of the churches, that of "confusion on top of confusion". The results of a survey in 2008 found that about 86 percent of the world’s population profess some form of religious affiliation. The survey also found that the believers belong to 19 major religions and that those who claim to be Christians belong to an astonishing 37,000 different denominations.

Yet, the apostle Paul was inspired to write that there is only one true religion amongst all of the religions of the world, saying that these individuals are "earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all persons, who is over all and through all and in all."(Eph 4:3-6) James wrote that the one "pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."(James 1 :27, King James Bible)

Acts 9:1, 2 says that "Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, in order that he might bring bound to Jerusalem any whom he found who belonged to The Way, both men and women." Over twenty years later, with Saul now the apostle Paul and being "on the other side of the fence", from being the persecutor to being persecuted, at Acts 19 it says that Paul upon "entering into the synagogue, he spoke with boldness for three months, giving talks and using persuasion concerning the kingdom of God. But when some went on hardening themselves and not believing, speaking injuriously about The Way before the multitude, he withdrew from them and separated the disciples from them, daily giving talks in the school auditorium of Ty·ran´nus."(Acts 19:8, 9)

Thus, there were not a multitude of religions that Jesus established, but one, initially called "The Way", not Ways. Later, "by divine providence called Christians."(Acts 11:26) As the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesians, that there is only "one faith" that is pleasing to God. Jesus had said that "broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13,14) Only a "few" would be able to go through the ' narrow gate' and be on the 'cramped road ' that leads to life everlasting, be it on the paradise earth (Ps 37:29; Luke 23:43) or in heaven, serving as "kings and priests."(Rev 1:6)

Jesus further said: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24) The numberless denominations of the churches of Christendom all feel that they are the "way to life". This however, does not measure up with what the Bible presents.

James, the half-brother of Jesus, told the assembled "older men" and apostles in Jerusalem in 49 C.E., that "Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things."(Acts 15:14-17; Amos 9:12)

 

[Fire-7]

The thought of people in hell is tragic, yes. But God has not ignored them, He has only given them what they desired. They chose, every day, every time they ignored Him, every time they sinned; against man, against God, against themselves. And sadly we cannot say "But they didn't know!" because every person has a chance to receive or reject God. The Bible is very clear that God is revealed by more than just the preacher. The very universe screams out the presence of a creator, but people actively choose to call it the "big bang" so that they can remain their own gods, be masters of their own fate.
As C.S. Lewis once said....'Either people say to God "thy will be done" or a time will come where God says to people "thy will be done".
It's tragic, but it is their choice. If we feel that it cannot be borne, then that should give us added incentive to spread the gospel, don't you think!?

I know that the classic justification for the existence of hell is that "Hell is man's choice, not G-d's choice." This sounds very religiously correct, indeed. But to me, rational it's just a cop-out. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would choose to burn in hell for eternity. I know I wouldn't. Someone might choose to do every sin under the sun. But that doesn't mean that he wants to go to hell. I think that if G-d gave every person on earth a chance to take a tour of hell, there would not be one single person in 7 billion, who would say "I want to go there."

No - hell is not man's choice; hell is G-d's choice. Man is not omnipotent, mnipresent, omniscient - G-d is. Man did not create hell ":for the devil and his angels," - G-d did. Man doesn't even have that kind of power. G-d started it all. So, I don't know why preachers turn around and say to man, "you started it." But it's not logical.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I know that the classic justification for the existence of hell is that "Hell is man's choice, not G-d's choice." This sounds very religiously correct, indeed. But to me, rational it's just a cop-out. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would choose to burn in hell for eternity. I know I wouldn't. Someone might choose to do every sin under the sun. But that doesn't mean that he wants to go to hell. I think that if G-d gave every person on earth a chance to take a tour of hell, there would not be one single person in 7 billion, who would say "I want to go there."

No - hell is not man's choice; hell is G-d's choice. Man is not omnipotent, mnipresent, omniscient - G-d is. Man did not create hell ":for the devil and his angels," - G-d did. Man doesn't even have that kind of power. G-d started it all. So, I don't know why preachers turn around and say to man, "you started it." But it's not logical.

You need to grasp the real reasons you're feeling this way. You need to pray and turn away from your current lifestyle. You're trying to reason against God and it's not possible.

The fact is there's a Hell and Lake of Fire. It wasn't created for man but for the Devil and his angels. But, those who don't want God will go there. The Bible says man is without excuse, and that's the truth.

Listen to AC/DC, Highway to Hell, no doubt you've heard it. They cheerfully sing about going to hell where all their friends are. Infact, it's a song about the Late Bon Scott the original singer for AC/DC who choked on his own vomit because he was so drunk.

Or, if that's not your particular cup 'o soup, Lady Gaga is a prime example, who has a guitar player she introduces as Jesus Christ as they parade around and sing silly songs.

Or even still, how about Marilyn Manson,,,,, Every song is about blasphemy or sin. Not to mention he's a satanic priest.

The list goes on and on, People used to tell me I'm going to hell, I would laugh and say, "Yeah, but I'm driving the bus!" Seemed funny at the time, but, thinking about it,,,....

Tell me people don't choose hell.

As for those who never heard, I can't give an explaination for them or what will happen on judgement day. But, there's millions of examples.

 

[Rach1370]

I know that the classic justification for the existence of hell is that "Hell is man's choice, not G-d's choice." This sounds very religiously correct, indeed. But to me, rational it's just a cop-out. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would choose to burn in hell for eternity. I know I wouldn't. Someone might choose to do every sin under the sun. But that doesn't mean that he wants to go to hell. I think that if G-d gave every person on earth a chance to take a tour of hell, there would not be one single person in 7 billion, who would say "I want to go there."

No - hell is not man's choice; hell is G-d's choice. Man is not omnipotent, mnipresent, omniscient - G-d is. Man did not create hell ":for the devil and his angels," - G-d did. Man doesn't even have that kind of power. G-d started it all. So, I don't know why preachers turn around and say to man, "you started it." But it's not logical.

I think you're coming at this from an erroneous point of view. Ultimately, you think their should be a 3rd choice. You see, there is only 2 choices. In heaven everyone there will spend all their time praising and worshiping God. That's what we want to do...every other thing we do...whatever that ends up being, will be in wonderful harmony with God and His wishes. Now sure, many may not want hell, but if asked, or given a tour of both, they would say "door number 3 please!" People want, now, and to remain always, their own god. They think they know best, what is the most righteous, the most just, the best way to run the universe etc etc.The only eternity they want is to remain lord of their world.

Ok, here's the reality check....it's not about us! It never was, never will be and never should be. Yes, God is omniprescent, omnipotent and omniscient. He is maker of the universe, He spun the galaxies out with just a word. He has always been, and always will be. He is more powerful than we could ever begin to comprehend. And He made us. He made us and He loves us enough to die a horrible death for us, and what have we done? The same thing, again and again through human history....spat it back at Him...imagining for one second that we could...should be in His place, as god of our own destinies. What we have done, is a billion times worse that a child, who takes everything his parents offer him growing up, and then suddenly turns around when he's grown and says "I hate you, I despise everything you've done for me. Your love, comfort, support and protection has meant nothing to me, it's only held me back...I'll never contact you again...I can do much better, thanks for nothing".

You see, there IS only 2 choices. For God, or against Him. There is no third option, and quite frankly we have no right to say "it's not fair!!" Did God say "it's not fair" when He sent His Son to die, to clean up what is essentially our own mess? God has given us a wonderful way to escape the end that we all deserve. Because it's quite simple, His universe, His rules. And while that may sound harsh, it's still true, because it's not about us, it's about Him. So you're free to say that it isn't fair and good, but all you're really doing, is choosing door number 2. See...choice.

 

[Robbie]

Does air exist only in our lungs? haha

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I know that the classic justification for the existence of hell is that "Hell is man's choice, not G-d's choice." This sounds very religiously correct, indeed. But to me, rational it's just a cop-out. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would choose to burn in hell for eternity. I know I wouldn't. Someone might choose to do every sin under the sun. But that doesn't mean that he wants to go to hell. I think that if G-d gave every person on earth a chance to take a tour of hell, there would not be one single person in 7 billion, who would say "I want to go there."

No - hell is not man's choice; hell is G-d's choice. Man is not omnipotent, mnipresent, omniscient - G-d is. Man did not create hell ":for the devil and his angels," - G-d did. Man doesn't even have that kind of power. G-d started it all. So, I don't know why preachers turn around and say to man, "you started it." But it's not logical.

I think God chose for hell to exist, but I don't think it is His will for it to exist. The purpose of hell and those who go there are those that are outside His will. God can work everything together for our good, but without the acceptance and love of Christ in a life, that work cannot be produced. When that work is started, God is faithful to complete that work. All of what God says to us can be directed back at Himself and He is proven true. God hasn't asked anything of us that He hasn't asked of Himself.

-He asks us to risk our love on Him and to risk our lives on His love.

He in turn did more than risk his life by giving His life out of love, without expectation of getting a return. True love is so generous it can be given without return.

-God many times chose prophets to preach messages to people that were already known to be unrepentant and hardened. Christians are called to preach the gospel, but sometimes those we are called to preach to have already made up their minds and hearts to reject the message we are asked to give them.

God in turn continually offers His love to all, even to those He knows will never choose Him. He never gives up, because love never gives up. We represent God's broken heart for these people.

-God asks us to choose Him despite any suffering that occurs because of it.

God gave up everything and lowered Himself to the position of a human servant. He became the lowest of all men. Christ chose to love mankind despite the suffering this powerful magnitude of love required.

-God asks us to deny our very nature and our God given rights in service to Him.

Christ denied His own power and authority for the sake of drawing us close to Himself. He became like us because He loves us.

I don't understand why He loves us so much. I even get angry when I think of how much He has gone through for me when I'm nothing. Though I am not nothing because God loves me and His love makes me valuable. I might not be valuable to everyone but I'm valuable to the only one in the universe that matters and his opinion of me matters more than everything else combined. I don't think I'll ever understand why God loves me. It's not something I can completely accept in my mind but it humbles me and all I can say is, "I love you too." I have a reason to love God.

But God is love, and he doesn't need a reason to be who He is. That's all he's asking of us, to accept Him for who He is. If he reveals his heart to you, you can accept him or reject him, and it won't change what He thinks of you. If you do accept Him for who He is though, He can help you understand a little about why He does the things he does, and that nothing He has done conflicts with His character.

The darkness in this world can blind us so powerfully, that we can't distinguish the nature of God in anything we see. When there is no beauty, no love, no hope... no life. But God is saying, "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY!" Nothing has to be the way it is. It can change. There is hope.

I need you God more than ever before. I am nothing without you, and I need to trust you if I want to survive. Take my hand and lead me because I am blind and I can't see. Lead me to the fountain that will cleanse my sight and refresh my soul. I want to know you are truly good, Lord. I give you the right to show me how much you love me. I won't refuse you any longer. I believe whatever you choose is best for me, and I am at your mercy, God. If you grant me one more day here, I will give it back to you. I am wholly abandoned. Blind me with you love so that You are all I see.

 

[IanLC]

You would think that after thousands of years of seeking and searching for an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being, that He would have shown up by now. At least given us clues that He is real.

But being raised a christian pentecostal myself, I have seen people yell, sweat, run, jump, foam at the mouth, speak in tongues, and not to mention the things that I have read about people doing, in the never-ending persuit of God. Many people have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in deep study, over their lifetime...

But the only thing I see, personally and honestly, is confusion on top of confusion. All I see is fighting among Christians, churches, groups and denominations. All I see is endless debates about what God thinks about this and that. But God Himself never ever brings about reconciliation or finality. There are always extremes, but I don't see a balance. I don't see consistency. I don't see substance. All I see is subjectivity.

It seems to me that this is an every-man-for-himself, get-in-where-you-fit-in, "believe what you want to believe" world, where everyone "believes" but no one knows anything.

This makes me think that maybe there is a desperate, dependent and co-dependent part of every human being that wants so badly to believe that there is stability in the universe, that we follow traditional beliefs about a God who has everything under "control." We refuse to let go of this belief, because to do so would force us to face a very cold reality. Maybe the biggest addiction in this world is not drugs, sex, or entertainment. Maybe our biggest addiction is the belief in "God?"

Despite the way this sounds, I'm not an atheist. I don't claim any belief system other than what I was brought up in (christianity). And even this I am seriously questioning. something just isn't adding up for me. And I feel that the most vivid reality is that much of what we believe about the "spirit" world is wishful thinking.

I just wonder

Grace and peace rest upon you fellow sibling in Christ Jesus. First I commend you on being public and placing your doubts and questions of God and your faith in the open. Secondly I will say that God does not cause confusion of himself, man causes confusion of their thoughts of God. God has given us his word and his mandates yet we take them and gain our own interpretation and understanding of them. Which in some cases is not bad as Philippians 2:12 states "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." But there are times when our interpretation and understanding are not based on the word of God. (2 Pet. 3:16-18) When we find ourselves with a false interpretation we need to seek guidance and wisdom from spiritualy maturer beleivers and pray fervently! Those who ask for wisdom and understanding God will give it without finding fault (James 1:5). You may need to go to God and pray and ask him to lead and gude you. Do you truly believe in Jesus? Do you truly love him beyond doubt? Do you become saved to flee from Hell or to gain a relationship with Jesus? What is your motives in serving and living for God? Are you looking toward Heaven and not God?

 

[Runner]

Despite the way this sounds, I'm not an atheist. I don't claim any belief system other than what I was brought up in (christianity). And even this I am seriously questioning. something just isn't adding up for me. And I feel that the most vivid reality is that much of what we believe about the "spirit" world is wishful thinking.

I just joined here after a couple of years at the Christian Forums site. In one of my last posts there, I asked "Is there any thread in any of these goofy forums that doesn't turn into a full-tilt cat-fight???" (This was in a thread in which a young woman had simply asked for advice about what to do with her senile cat, and two other women got into such a cat-fight of their own that it was hysterical.) The degree of fussin' and feudin' within the Christian community is indeed enough to make anyone question whether a Holy Spirit is really at work within it. That being said, when I look back over the 40+ years since I invited Christ into my life, I believe that I actually have seen a genuine transformation - not into a saint by any means, but into someone quite different from whom I think I would have become without the Holy Spirit in my life. I believe that there has been a real spirit at work in my life, not just one that I've imagined as I've matured.

During that same period of 40+ years, I had a number of "spiritual" (or paranormal) experiences of my own that had no explicit Christian content but that were quite compelling evidence (to me, anyway) of the actual existence of an after-death spiritual realm; this led me into a really extensive study of all types of phenomena that suggest such a realm (Near Death Experiences, After-Death Communications, apparitions, etc.). I found that studying these phenomena actually enhanced my beliefs by giving me an "evidentiary basis" for the existence of an after-death spiritual realm.

Today, I'm quite convinced that my Christianity is something more than wishful thinking. I agree with those who have said that God did fully reveal Himself in the life and Resurrection of Jesus, but we are now 2,000 years down the road and I can understand the perspective of those who wish that God would announce His presence in no uncertain terms and eliminate all the confusion. But that would be coercive and would frustrate what seems to me to be God's plan, which is to allow each of us to experience the full spectrum of good and evil that the world has to offer, recognize and accept that we are fallen, dependent beings who fall far short of His holiness, and freely choose to accept His offer of salvation. So as chaotic as it can seem, I believe that what you are describing is just what we have to put up with in order for God's plan to be fulfilled. (I'm not claiming that I fully understand God's plan, since His ways are indeed mysterious - but what I have described is my perspective.)