Does the Bible identify "Babylon"?

[Timtofly]

It's 42 months not 5 months.

I think he is combining the 5th and 6th Trumpet into a 5 month period.

"And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

 

[Davy]

It's 42 months not 5 months.

The "deadly wound" deserves another look because of certain parameters associated with it.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

That is about one of the "seven mountains" of Revelation 17:9 that the symbolic Babylon harlot sits upon. Rev.17:18 reveals that Babylon harlot is a "great city", so this then makes Rev.17:9 mean: the "great city" sits upon that 'one head' (one of the seven mountains). Revelation 11:8 reveals the "great city" as JERUSALEM, where Lord Jesus was crucified.

What does one think might have happened in the area of Jerusalem of old, since God said He has chosen Jerusalem for to put His Name there forever. I believe God chose that place on earth even back in the old world before Satan rebelled against Him. I believe that is the spot on earth where God's Garden of Eden was once, with God's River flowing out of His Garden to feed four other rivers upon this earth per Genesis 2. When Adam and Eve sinned, He removed His Eden off this earth under protection per Genesis 3.

There is no doubt that the "deadly wound" is healed when the "dragon" arrives here on earth for the end. Revelation 17 points to that 'deadly wound' also...

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

What is that riddle, "the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" pointing to? Also in that above verse, it is pointing to how all those on earth whose names are NOT written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will "wonder" at who that beast really is. That means those believers today who's names ARE written in that book of life from the foundation, should... know who that beast is.

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Lord Jesus gave us a strong clue who that particular beast king is that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition. One of his many titles is Apollyon per Rev.9, from the Greek word apollumi, which means the destroyer. That is what this Greek word for "perdition" is here. As of right now, only Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to 'apollumi', i.e. destruction in the future "lake of fire". No flesh man has been judged to perish yet. So that is one easy way to 'know' for sure who this beast king here is, "that was, and is not, ... and goeth into perdition."

Just when... then, that beast "was", and then "is not"?

That is pointing to Satan's original rebellion against God in the old world, the world before today's world. Per Ezekiel 28, via parable, God showed that He created Satan perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him. Per parable again in Ezekiel 31, God showed that Satan was once over "all great nations" in that old world. This is why Jesus reveals in Revelation 12:3-4 a PREVIOUS world beast system that had only 7 crowns, instead of 10 crowns like the beast kingdom of Rev.13 for the end of this present world. That Rev.12 Scripture also reveals Satan drew a third of the angels (stars) to earth in that rebellion of old.

Back in that OLD WORLD, is thus when I see Bible Scripture pointing to when the "deadly wound" of Rev.13 originally happened. And when Satan comes at the end of our world, setting up the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom anew, that is when he will heal that old "deadly wound" in the area of today's JERUSALEM, the area of one of his seven heads.

 

[VCO]

In Hebrew, whether its the tower, the city, the empire, and its meaning in prophecy down to the close of human history and Christs return, are all the same Hebrew word babel , Babylon. Babel is Babylon and Babel is confusion.

The name Babylon is derived from BAB-ILU which was “gate of the gods” or "the portal of the gods", and in a sense it thus portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to God's prescribed plan of salvation. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith and the Protestant Reformers realized it and the system behind it.

The Babylonian system of worship has ever been a snare to God's people, as it is more in tune with human nature to rely on salvation by works than on salvation by grace. From the very beginning, these two systems of worship have been in confrontation with each other. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates this point. Abel listened to the divine directive and brought a lamb without blemish as an offering, but Cain brought the fruits of his labor. When the offering of Abel was accepted by God, the anger of Cain was aroused and ever since, this first confrontation between these two systems of worship, has been in conflict on this planet.

Ancient Babylon serves as a type of a much greater end-time confederacy of religious apostasy and intolerance that would seek to control conscience before the close of earth's history, and yet it will meet its end. We see in Revelation 14:8...
"And there followed another angel saying, 'Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Bible warns against Babylon, and urge God's people to come out of Babylon, and we see it also reflecting the spiritual decay of the system...

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Revelation 18:2

The unclean and hateful birds appears to reference a counterfeit Holy Spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, we see it with a warning..

"Come out of her My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4

God would not urge His people to come out of Babylon if it were impossible for them to identify Babylon. During the early Christian centuries, Jewish and Christian literature referred to the city of Rome as Babylon. 1 Peter 5:13 also refers to Rome as Babylon, as Peter wrote these words whilst in Rome, and literal Babylon no longer existed....

"The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." 1 Peter 5:13

In Revelation 17, John is invited to witness the judgment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters, seductively deceiving the inhabitants of the earth. This woman is subsequently identified as “ ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots’ ”. In the scriptures, a prostitute symbolically refers to God’s people in their apostasy. The portrayal of the prostitute in Revelation 17 shows that she represents an entity that was once faithful to God before aligning herself with the end-time opponent of God and His faithful remnant. Babylon is thus a corporate name for an end-time apostate entity.

The Protestants of the Reformation knew who it was and referred to it as spiritual Babylon, the antichrist entity and enemy of God's people. The woman that rides the beast in Revelation 17 also has all the identifying features which make it easier to find...

"1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Revelation 17:1-2.

The woman is first referenced to as sitting on “many waters” and according to Revelation 17:5, the waters upon which the prostitute was seen symbolize the civil, secular, and political powers of the world. Just as the ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will the end-time Babylon depend on the civil, secular, and political powers of the world to enforce its plans and purposes.

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:4-5.

In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church. Isaiah the prophet extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride. The pure bride represents the pure church..

"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee." Isaiah 62:5.

We find in the New Testament the same symbolism is employed...

"...for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Babylon is described in Revelation 17:5 as the "mother of harlots" an apostate religious systems or church, "Mystery" and the "abominations of the earth". Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite of this symbol or that system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations.

Its not hard to figure out who persecuted the saints, and brought in the paganism and abominable practices into the church...

REV. 12:14 wings of a great eagle. Not actual birds’ wings, but a graphic depiction of God’s providential protection of Israel (cf. Ex. 19:4). Wings often speak of protection (cf. Deut. 32:9-12; Ps. 91:4; Isa. 40:31).
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Perhaps these are the wings of the Great Eagle:

 

[VCO]

The "deadly wound" deserves another look because of certain parameters associated with it.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

That is about one of the "seven mountains" of Revelation 17:9 that the symbolic Babylon harlot sits upon. Rev.17:18 reveals that Babylon harlot is a "great city", so this then makes Rev.17:9 mean: the "great city" sits upon that 'one head' (one of the seven mountains). Revelation 11:8 reveals the "great city" as JERUSALEM, where Lord Jesus was crucified.

What does one think might have happened in the area of Jerusalem of old, since God said He has chosen Jerusalem for to put His Name there forever. I believe God chose that place on earth even back in the old world before Satan rebelled against Him. I believe that is the spot on earth where God's Garden of Eden was once, with God's River flowing out of His Garden to feed four other rivers upon this earth per Genesis 2. When Adam and Eve sinned, He removed His Eden off this earth under protection per Genesis 3.

There is no doubt that the "deadly wound" is healed when the "dragon" arrives here on earth for the end. Revelation 17 points to that 'deadly wound' also...

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

What is that riddle, "the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" pointing to? Also in that above verse, it is pointing to how all those on earth whose names are NOT written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will "wonder" at who that beast really is. That means those believers today who's names ARE written in that book of life from the foundation, should... know who that beast is.

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Lord Jesus gave us a strong clue who that particular beast king is that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition. One of his many titles is Apollyon per Rev.9, from the Greek word apollumi, which means the destroyer. That is what this Greek word for "perdition" is here. As of right now, only Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to 'apollumi', i.e. destruction in the future "lake of fire". No flesh man has been judged to perish yet. So that is one easy way to 'know' for sure who this beast king here is, "that was, and is not, ... and goeth into perdition."

Just when... then, that beast "was", and then "is not"?

That is pointing to Satan's original rebellion against God in the old world, the world before today's world. Per Ezekiel 28, via parable, God showed that He created Satan perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him. Per parable again in Ezekiel 31, God showed that Satan was once over "all great nations" in that old world. This is why Jesus reveals in Revelation 12:3-4 a PREVIOUS world beast system that had only 7 crowns, instead of 10 crowns like the beast kingdom of Rev.13 for the end of this present world. That Rev.12 Scripture also reveals Satan drew a third of the angels (stars) to earth in that rebellion of old.

Back in that OLD WORLD, is thus when I see Bible Scripture pointing to when the "deadly wound" of Rev.13 originally happened. And when Satan comes at the end of our world, setting up the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom anew, that is when he will heal that old "deadly wound" in the area of today's JERUSALEM, the area of one of his seven heads.

To me, is sounds like the ROMAN EMPIRE that was Destroyed, and we see a Revival in the Final 7 years before the Millennium.

 

[Davy]

To me, is sounds like the ROMAN EMPIRE that was Destroyed, and we see a Revival in the Final 7 years before the Millennium.

Look at Daniel 2 again with the 5 pieces that are all together when smitten by "the stone" (Jesus Christ) when He comes to reign over the nations. Only the "legs of iron" represented the old pagan Roman empire. Because the feet of ten toes has clay mixed with iron, those stuck on the old Reformer's idea about Rome as the Antichrist think it's going to be revived for the end because of that "iron" mixed with clay metaphor. Not necessarily.

Ever hear of the Club of Rome? They involve a group of industrialists like the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, etc., basically the likes of those who meet at the globalist summits that support a one world government. That is what the 'beast' kingdom of Rev.13 for the end of this world is going to be, a literal one-world government over all nations and peoples.

And we know for certain... its headquarters will not be in Rome, nor Brussels, nor New York, nor Moscow, nor Damascus, etc. That because God's two witnesses will prophesy against the beast at... Jerusalem. It all comes down to Jerusalem for the end. And I don't think I need to go over all the Scripture pointing to Jerusalem again. So either one believes God's Word as written, or they put their trust in men's traditions instead.

 

[VCO]

Look at Daniel 2 again with the 5 pieces that are all together when smitten by "the stone" (Jesus Christ) when He comes to reign over the nations. Only the "legs of iron" represented the old pagan Roman empire. Because the feet of ten toes has clay mixed with iron, those stuck on the old Reformer's idea about Rome as the Antichrist think it's going to be revived for the end because of that "iron" mixed with clay metaphor. Not necessarily.

Ever hear of the Club of Rome? They involve a group of industrialists like the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, etc., basically the likes of those who meet at the globalist summits that support a one world government. That is what the 'beast' kingdom of Rev.13 for the end of this world is going to be, a literal one-world government over all nations and peoples.

And we know for certain... its headquarters will not be in Rome, nor Brussels, nor New York, nor Moscow, nor Damascus, etc. That because God's two witnesses will prophesy against the beast at... Jerusalem. It all comes down to Jerusalem for the end. And I don't think I need to go over all the Scripture pointing to Jerusalem again. So either one believes God's Word as written, or they put their trust in men's traditions instead.

That is not what we were Taught in the local Non-demominational Church that I went to. The Iron mixed with Clay was a revival of the Roman Empire, but because many Nations mixed in with the leadership are not as strong as a single DICTATOR. Their frequent bickering meant it would never be as strong as a DICTATORSHIP. Yes I still believe the European Union is that eventual Dictatorship. If we get to see the Antichrist come in, (I think we will be gone by then), when he tries to take over the European Union, several countries will LEAVE the Union, leaving them with 10 nations but still not quite Unified.

Have you ever watched the European Union in Session on TV ? ? ? They frequently get mad at one another, yell, scream, Call each other names, etc., just to get their point across. It is far worse, with total disrespect, than the Republicans and Democrats in this country.

 

[VCO]

I just found out that Dr. Charles Stanley died. He was one of my favorite Bible Teachers.

 

[Davy]

That is not what we were Taught in the local Non-demominational Church that I went to. The Iron mixed with Clay was a revival of the Roman Empire, but because many Nations mixed in with the leadership are not as strong as a single DICTATOR. Their frequent bickering meant it would never be as strong as a DICTATORSHIP. Yes I still believe the European Union is that eventual Dictatorship. If we get to see the Antichrist come in, (I think we will be gone by then), when he tries to take over the European Union, several countries will LEAVE the Union, leaving them with 10 nations but still not quite Unified.

Obviously you still do not understand, those men have limited your thinking by their own doctrines influenced from the false Jews and traditions of men. They simply represent one of several factions that exist today to draw Christian's attention away... from Jerusalem regarding the Biblical end time events leading up to Christ's future return there.

Firstly, I am a Protestant Christian, non-denominational. My Dad's side migrated from 16th century France to Britain and then to the Americas because of the Protestant Reformation, when the Catholic Church went to war against French Huguenots, the first French Protestants. The Protestants considered the pope then as the Antichrist for the end because of that persecution. That of course meant they believed Christ's coming was going to be in their generation, but it did not happen. Yet still to this day, there are factions that 'use' those ideas of the old Reformation to point to the pope today still as being the Antichrist for the end! It is a useful political ploy the false Jews are using upon unsuspecting Protestant members of many Churches. Why? Because it's a good way to deceive many brethren away from the coming events in Jerusalem for the end, which is where the real deception is going to take place for the end of this world.


The idea of the European Union is an old plan by the globalists that desire a 'one-world government'. Ever hear of Tri-laterlism? In 1973, Rockefeller made Jimmy Carter and Brezenski head of a gloablist think-tank called the Tri-lateral Commission. The thinking was a Tri-Parte world, so the European Union was only the start of it. Their plan also includes an American Union like the EU, and also a Pacific-Asia Union, and 3-part sectioned world government system tied together. The beginnings of the America Union structure has been with the proposals under the 'Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America'. The U.S. government already has departments staffed to bring it into existence. It's what all the 'super-highway' talk of connecting Mexico, the U.S., and Canada, has been about. The proposed money to be used by all three they already call the 'Amero', like the Euro.

So when that happens here in North America, and they are working on it whether we like it or not, who are you going to blame like a pope then for a revival of iron???

No man, this movement for the end is about a total "one world government" over ALL NATIONS and peoples, and not head at Rome, but at Jerusalem. Why Jerusalem? Because Lord Jesus WARNED US that a pseudo-Christ is coming there to JERUSALEM, not Rome, and that fake Christ is going to have the power to work great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world with! So if you are not listening to Jesus' WARNING about the end events, then it means you are already... deceived, and not prepared spiritually and mentally for what is coming upon the whole world.

 

[Truth7t7]

Obviously you still do not understand, those men have limited your thinking by their own doctrines influenced from the false Jews and traditions of men. They simply represent one of several factions that exist today to draw Christian's attention away... from Jerusalem regarding the Biblical end time events leading up to Christ's future return there.

Firstly, I am a Protestant Christian, non-denominational. My Dad's side migrated from 16th century France to Britain and then to the Americas because of the Protestant Reformation, when the Catholic Church went to war against French Huguenots, the first French Protestants. The Protestants considered the pope then as the Antichrist for the end because of that persecution. That of course meant they believed Christ's coming was going to be in their generation, but it did not happen. Yet still to this day, there are factions that 'use' those ideas of the old Reformation to point to the pope today still as being the Antichrist for the end! It is a useful political ploy the false Jews are using upon unsuspecting Protestant members of many Churches. Why? Because it's a good way to deceive many brethren away from the coming events in Jerusalem for the end, which is where the real deception is going to take place for the end of this world.


The idea of the European Union is an old plan by the globalists that desire a 'one-world government'. Ever hear of Tri-laterlism? In 1973, Rockefeller made Jimmy Carter and Brezenski head of a gloablist think-tank called the Tri-lateral Commission. The thinking was a Tri-Parte world, so the European Union was only the start of it. Their plan also includes an American Union like the EU, and also a Pacific-Asia Union, and 3-part sectioned world government system tied together. The beginnings of the America Union structure has been with the proposals under the 'Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America'. The U.S. government already has departments staffed to bring it into existence. It's what all the 'super-highway' talk of connecting Mexico, the U.S., and Canada, has been about. The proposed money to be used by all three they already call the 'Amero', like the Euro.

So when that happens here in North America, and they are working on it whether we like it or not, who are you going to blame like a pope then for a revival of iron???

No man, this movement for the end is about a total "one world government" over ALL NATIONS and peoples, and not head at Rome, but at Jerusalem. Why Jerusalem? Because Lord Jesus WARNED US that a pseudo-Christ is coming there to JERUSALEM, not Rome, and that fake Christ is going to have the power to work great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world with! So if you are not listening to Jesus' WARNING about the end events, then it means you are already... deceived, and not prepared spiritually and mentally for what is coming upon the whole world.

Here are the countries and companies dominating Davos​

Who are the participants at the 2023 World Economic Forum meeting?

 

[quietthinker]

In Hebrew, whether its the tower, the city, the empire, and its meaning in prophecy down to the close of human history and Christs return, are all the same Hebrew word babel , Babylon. Babel is Babylon and Babel is confusion.

The name Babylon is derived from BAB-ILU which was “gate of the gods” or "the portal of the gods", and in a sense it thus portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to God's prescribed plan of salvation. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith and the Protestant Reformers realized it and the system behind it.

The Babylonian system of worship has ever been a snare to God's people, as it is more in tune with human nature to rely on salvation by works than on salvation by grace. From the very beginning, these two systems of worship have been in confrontation with each other. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates this point. Abel listened to the divine directive and brought a lamb without blemish as an offering, but Cain brought the fruits of his labor. When the offering of Abel was accepted by God, the anger of Cain was aroused and ever since, this first confrontation between these two systems of worship, has been in conflict on this planet.

Ancient Babylon serves as a type of a much greater end-time confederacy of religious apostasy and intolerance that would seek to control conscience before the close of earth's history, and yet it will meet its end. We see in Revelation 14:8...
"And there followed another angel saying, 'Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Bible warns against Babylon, and urge God's people to come out of Babylon, and we see it also reflecting the spiritual decay of the system...

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Revelation 18:2

The unclean and hateful birds appears to reference a counterfeit Holy Spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, we see it with a warning..

"Come out of her My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4

God would not urge His people to come out of Babylon if it were impossible for them to identify Babylon. During the early Christian centuries, Jewish and Christian literature referred to the city of Rome as Babylon. 1 Peter 5:13 also refers to Rome as Babylon, as Peter wrote these words whilst in Rome, and literal Babylon no longer existed....

"The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." 1 Peter 5:13

In Revelation 17, John is invited to witness the judgment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters, seductively deceiving the inhabitants of the earth. This woman is subsequently identified as “ ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots’ ”. In the scriptures, a prostitute symbolically refers to God’s people in their apostasy. The portrayal of the prostitute in Revelation 17 shows that she represents an entity that was once faithful to God before aligning herself with the end-time opponent of God and His faithful remnant. Babylon is thus a corporate name for an end-time apostate entity.

The Protestants of the Reformation knew who it was and referred to it as spiritual Babylon, the antichrist entity and enemy of God's people. The woman that rides the beast in Revelation 17 also has all the identifying features which make it easier to find...

"1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Revelation 17:1-2.

The woman is first referenced to as sitting on “many waters” and according to Revelation 17:5, the waters upon which the prostitute was seen symbolize the civil, secular, and political powers of the world. Just as the ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will the end-time Babylon depend on the civil, secular, and political powers of the world to enforce its plans and purposes.

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:4-5.

In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church. Isaiah the prophet extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride. The pure bride represents the pure church..

"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee." Isaiah 62:5.

We find in the New Testament the same symbolism is employed...

"...for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Babylon is described in Revelation 17:5 as the "mother of harlots" an apostate religious systems or church, "Mystery" and the "abominations of the earth". Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite of this symbol or that system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations.

Its not hard to figure out who persecuted the saints, and brought in the paganism and abominable practices into the church...

Babylon the Great is identified as the system of selfishness and violence which attempts to portray itself as the opposite.
It is inclusive of the religions of the World.

 

[VCO]

The final 7 years is strictly dealing with ISRAEL, trying to get them to recognized Christ as their Messiah. We will be in Heaven at the Wedding of the Lamb in out glorified bodies.

False teaching will come out the woodwork, it is prophesied to be that way, as we get close:

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

 

[ewq1938]

The final 7 years is strictly dealing with ISRAEL, trying to get them to recognized Christ as their Messiah.

And what scripture shows that?

 

[Davy]

Babylon the Great is identified as the system of selfishness and violence which attempts to portray itself as the opposite.
It is inclusive of the religions of the World.

Such an idea of course is men's philosophy, and not what God's Word teaches about the end time Babylon Harlot of Revelation.

 

[Davy]

The final 7 years is strictly dealing with ISRAEL, trying to get them to recognized Christ as their Messiah. We will be in Heaven at the Wedding of the Lamb in out glorified bodies.

False teaching will come out the woodwork, it is prophesied to be that way, as we get close:

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Again, that is suggesting that we, Christ's Church, are going to be raptured to Heaven prior to the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about. That pre-trib rapture idea is a THEORY from men, and is nowhere written in God's Word. It is men's philosophy. Christ's faithful WILL go through the coming "great tribulation", as we are supposed to be prepared to give a Testimony for Jesus against the beast, come what may. The pre-trib rapture preachers are doing nothing but teaching brethren how to be cowards for Christ.

 

[VCO]

Again, that is suggesting that we, Christ's Church, are going to be raptured to Heaven prior to the "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about. That pre-trib rapture idea is a THEORY from men, and is nowhere written in God's Word. It is men's philosophy. Christ's faithful WILL go through the coming "great tribulation", as we are supposed to be prepared to give a Testimony for Jesus against the beast, come what may. The pre-trib rapture preachers are doing nothing but teaching brethren how to be cowards for Christ.

And your ploy is to get this subject banned on this site. Instead, you are on my IGNORE LIST.

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Bye now.

 

[Davy]

And your ploy is to get this subject banned on this site. Instead, you are on my IGNORE LIST.

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Bye now.

I don't have to try and get men's false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture banned, anyone who stays in study of God's Word for themselves instead of listening to a bunch hot air made up doctrines from preachers out to make a lot of money can see how they are fakes. 13 Left-Behind series books by Tim LaHaye! Who in the world needs that when all one need to is pick up their Bible and 'listen' and 'heed' what God said in His Word!

So glady, you are on are MY Ignore list and will stay there!

 

[quietthinker]

Such an idea of course is men's philosophy, and not what God's Word teaches about the end time Babylon Harlot of Revelation.

Mens philosophy? From what I can tell, one hardly needs any philosophy, just open eyes.

Forcing the reality of another is the domain of men....it is what their kingdom consists of.....it is what defines it...(spiritual force, emotional force, intellectual force and needless to say, physical force.....it comes as natural as water flowing downhill.
Force is the natural fruit of selfishness.

God's reality/ kingdom, is displayed/ revealed in the incarnate Jesus.....the reality that always was, always is and always will be.
....and what do we see in Jesus?

Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

 

[VCO]

And what scripture shows that?

It is Common knowledge that the 69th Week of Daniel and the 70th Week of Daniel are separated by the Church-Age. That is a common field of thought among Churches in the USA, even though they disagree with Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib. I find the later two have a physical impossibility liked to them, because the days are actually numbered if you believe the Bible Literally, once the Peace Treaty is sign be Israel and the so-called Antichrist, and beast. Somebody will guess the right day, which is impossible when you take this verse Literally:

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Therefore if you believe this is LITERAL, you have to believe it can only be Pre-Trib. We evangelicals, and a few other Churches absolutely believe it is LITERAL. If you believe otherwise, good luck with your theories.

Now there is more to why we believe the 70th Week of Daniel is still in the future:

GOD has not yet given up on ISRAEL:

Psalm 103:8-9 (HCSB)
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
9 He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.

Exodus 14:30-31 (GW)
30 That day the LORD saved Israel from the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians lying dead on the seashore.
31 When the Israelites saw the great power the LORD had used against the Egyptians, they feared the LORD and believed in him and in his servant Moses.

Likewise the majority of them will be save ISRAEL by seeing how GOD has gifted the Two Witnesses of Revelation with GREAT POWER. {I happen to believe Enoch and Elijah the only two people that never died, will be the two witnesses.} In the end, these two witnesses do die by the hands of the Antichrist, making this verse absolutely TRUE:

Hebrews 9:27 (ASV)
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment;

Isaiah 57:16 (NRSV)
16 For I will not continually accuse, nor will I always be angry; for then the spirits would grow faint before me, even the souls that I have made.

Revelation 11:3-19 (HCSB)
3 I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and consumes their enemies; if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
6 These men have the power to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the days of their prophecy. They also have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every plague whenever they want.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, conquer them, and kill them.
8 Their dead bodies will lie in the public square of the great city, which prophetically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
9 And representatives from the peoples, tribes, languages, and nations will view their bodies for three and a half days and not permit their bodies to be put into a tomb.
10 Those who live on the earth will gloat over them and celebrate and send gifts to one another because these two prophets brought judgment to those who live on the earth.
11 But after 31/2 days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. So great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” They went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies watched them. {LIVE ON THE TV NEWS INTERNATIONALLY.}
13 At that moment a violent earthquake took place, a tenth of the city fell, and 7,000 people were killed in the earthquake. The survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

YES, we even believe that testimony about the two witnesses is LITERAL.

So where do I get this idea that the Church is removed from earth Prior to Rev. 4:1:

From Prophecy:

Revelation 4:1-4 (HCSB)
1 After this I looked, and there in heaven was an open door *. The first voice that I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, {That open door means it was open for Church-age and Old Testament Saints, to pass through in their glorified bodies, and I can prove it.} and I will show you what must take place after this.” *
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit, and a throne was set there in heaven. One was seated {HIS work on earth to bring to us to salvation, was finished.} on the throne, {That is Christ.}
3 and the One seated looked like jasper and carnelian stone. A rainbow that looked like an emerald surrounded the throne.
4 Around that throne were 24 thrones, and on the thrones sat 24 elders dressed in white clothes, with gold crowns on their heads. {The fact that they were seated on those thrones, means in prophesy, the work on earth was FINISHED. In the Temple of the LORD, there is no Seats, except the Mercy Seat. Think about it.}

{*}
Revelation 3:7-8 (ESV)
7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.
8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

Try to explain away seated Elders, and you will have failed miserably.

The time of Jacob's trouble – What is it?

The time of Jacob's trouble – What is it? What is Jeremiah talking about when he writes of the time of Jacob's trouble? Is the time of Jacob's trouble related to the tribulation or the end times?

www.compellingtruth.org

 

[Earburner]

In Hebrew, whether its the tower, the city, the empire, and its meaning in prophecy down to the close of human history and Christs return, are all the same Hebrew word babel , Babylon. Babel is Babylon and Babel is confusion.

The name Babylon is derived from BAB-ILU which was “gate of the gods” or "the portal of the gods", and in a sense it thus portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to God's prescribed plan of salvation. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith and the Protestant Reformers realized it and the system behind it.

The Babylonian system of worship has ever been a snare to God's people, as it is more in tune with human nature to rely on salvation by works than on salvation by grace. From the very beginning, these two systems of worship have been in confrontation with each other. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates this point. Abel listened to the divine directive and brought a lamb without blemish as an offering, but Cain brought the fruits of his labor. When the offering of Abel was accepted by God, the anger of Cain was aroused and ever since, this first confrontation between these two systems of worship, has been in conflict on this planet.

Ancient Babylon serves as a type of a much greater end-time confederacy of religious apostasy and intolerance that would seek to control conscience before the close of earth's history, and yet it will meet its end. We see in Revelation 14:8...
"And there followed another angel saying, 'Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Bible warns against Babylon, and urge God's people to come out of Babylon, and we see it also reflecting the spiritual decay of the system...

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Revelation 18:2

The unclean and hateful birds appears to reference a counterfeit Holy Spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, we see it with a warning..

"Come out of her My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4

God would not urge His people to come out of Babylon if it were impossible for them to identify Babylon. During the early Christian centuries, Jewish and Christian literature referred to the city of Rome as Babylon. 1 Peter 5:13 also refers to Rome as Babylon, as Peter wrote these words whilst in Rome, and literal Babylon no longer existed....

"The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." 1 Peter 5:13

In Revelation 17, John is invited to witness the judgment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters, seductively deceiving the inhabitants of the earth. This woman is subsequently identified as “ ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots’ ”. In the scriptures, a prostitute symbolically refers to God’s people in their apostasy. The portrayal of the prostitute in Revelation 17 shows that she represents an entity that was once faithful to God before aligning herself with the end-time opponent of God and His faithful remnant. Babylon is thus a corporate name for an end-time apostate entity.

The Protestants of the Reformation knew who it was and referred to it as spiritual Babylon, the antichrist entity and enemy of God's people. The woman that rides the beast in Revelation 17 also has all the identifying features which make it easier to find...

"1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Revelation 17:1-2.

The woman is first referenced to as sitting on “many waters” and according to Revelation 17:5, the waters upon which the prostitute was seen symbolize the civil, secular, and political powers of the world. Just as the ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will the end-time Babylon depend on the civil, secular, and political powers of the world to enforce its plans and purposes.

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:4-5.

In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church. Isaiah the prophet extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride. The pure bride represents the pure church..

"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee." Isaiah 62:5.

We find in the New Testament the same symbolism is employed...

"...for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Babylon is described in Revelation 17:5 as the "mother of harlots" an apostate religious systems or church, "Mystery" and the "abominations of the earth". Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite of this symbol or that system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations.

Its not hard to figure out who persecuted the saints, and brought in the paganism and abominable practices into the church...

MBtG is actually more mystifying than most Christians think.
First, there are two mistakes that are commonly made in interpretation.
1. MBtG is a "Madam" of harlots.
2. MBtG does not ride the ever evolving 10H beast, but rather is "carried" by the ever evolving 10H beast. KJV Rev. 17:7

Secondly in all of NT scripture, there are only two "mothers" that are prophetically spoken of.
One "is fallen"*, and the other "is the mother of us all"**.
All should study Gal. 4 with their eyes open.

NOTE:
*Rev.14:8, Rev. 18:2.
** Gal. 4:26

 

[Davy]

Mens philosophy? From what I can tell, one hardly needs any philosophy, just open eyes.

Forcing the reality of another is the domain of men....it is what their kingdom consists of.....it is what defines it...(spiritual force, emotional force, intellectual force and needless to say, physical force.....it comes as natural as water flowing downhill.
Force is the natural fruit of selfishness.

More men's philosophy, and not what God's Word is about.

The subject is about the Babylon Harlot of Revelation, not the limitations and imperfectness of this flesh world that is ordained to be destroyed.

God's reality/ kingdom, is displayed/ revealed in the incarnate Jesus.....the reality that always was, always is and always will be.
....and what do we see in Jesus?

Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Once again, IF... you do not apply that per the Biblical accounts about it, then you are again reverting to men's philosophy. So what is the Biblical account about God's Kingdom?

It is NOT HERE ON EARTH YET, for God's Kingdom is to be a LITERAL KINGDOM established here on earth, through His Son Jesus Christ. That means JESUS CHRIST has to be here, ON EARTH. In the mean time, this present world is given to Satan to operate (excepting where God works for His servants).

This is why Lord Jesus said in John 18:36 that His Kingdom is NOT of this world, meaning not of this present time. At His future return, God's Word prophesies that Jesus will reign right here on earth with His faithful elect over ALL... nations and peoples. We don't see that happening yet today, and it won't until He returns on the last day of this world.

So if you're trying to see Christ's Kingdom established 'now', 'today', in the world, then you would have to blind yourself to believe that, and there's no way you can make God's Word agree with you about that either. If you are getting that false idea from your preachers, I suggest you leave that church immediately and go find one that teaches Bible line upon line.