Does the Bible identify "Babylon"?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,760
3,215
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That Paul taught on a Sunday?

You that made a claim and posted scripture that did not support the claim.
Once again, please post the scripture of Paul on Sunday, waiting?
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,382
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Why guess and risk an eisegesis, as is the case we have been discussing? Whatever it is, it says "think" to change them not that any are actually changed and the timeframe of it all is the GT when the saints are worn out. I don't see anything that relates this to Sunday being the Sabbath for Catholics and others as that was changed long ago and does not match something that is done (or only thought of) in the future.
The very large overweight elephant in this discussion which you are determined to ignore is the historical fact that the little horn which Daniel references and prophesies about grows out of the 4th beast, which arose directly after the 3rd. The 3rd was Greece. I am sure you wouldn't suggest that God was asleep when the Grecian empire was broken up into 4 kingdoms as per the prophecy... Leopard with 4 heads... And missed the true of the most powerful empire in mankind's history, Rome. Rome was the 4th beast. Please don't tell me you are one of those who stubbornly designate some other branch of Greece, or Antiochus, etc etc. Please don't, because the criteria in the prophecy simply doesn't fit, and I will have to dedicate the next few posts disabusing you of that lie. I think we need to go beyond that, and acknowledge that the little horn, with at least 10 specific characteristics identifying it as papal Rome, grows out of that 4th pagan Rome beast. This took place as the bishops of Rome adopted pagan Roman practices, of which Sunday...sol Invictus... The day of the sun god and the day celebrated annually at Christmas by in particular the Roman military in connection to their pagan Persian religion they had adopted, Mithra. History is not on your side ewq, because history affirms and validates prophecy, and the Sunday laws of Constantine and later councils such as that of Laodicea prove the SDA narrative.
The little horn, the papal church, thought to change the 4th commandment. Of course they can enforce it and coerce people to observe it, and deceived others to do so, but the 4th commandment as written by the finger of God on stone, affirming it's permanence, cannot be changed, abrogated, altered, rearranged, or distorted. Oh, nor will it ever be forgotten. After all, when God says remember, you will not forget.
 
Last edited:

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,845
1,213
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once again, please post the scripture of Paul on Sunday, waiting?

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,845
1,213
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The very large overweight elephant in this discussion which you are determined to ignore is the historical fact that the little horn which Daniel references and prophesies about grows out of the 4th beast, which arose directly after the 3rd. The 3rd was Greece.

As I said, nothing in Daniel suggests the Sabbath is changed from Saturday to Sunday. You completely avoided the fact that Daniel wrote that the little horn will "THINK to change times and laws". Think does not equal do nor does it say Sunday etc.

H5452
סְבַר
sebar
seb-ar'
(Chaldee); a primitive root; to bear in mind, that is, hope: - think.
Total KJV occurrences: 1


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and HOPE to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,382
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
As I said, nothing in Daniel suggests the Sabbath is changed from Saturday to Sunday. You completely avoided the fact that Daniel wrote that the little horn will "THINK to change times and laws". Think does not equal do nor does it say Sunday etc.

H5452
סְבַר
sebar
seb-ar'
(Chaldee); a primitive root; to bear in mind, that is, hope: - think.
Total KJV occurrences: 1


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and HOPE to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
You have conveniently ignored the crux of what I was saying. First, I didn't say Daniel was mentioning Sunday laws, so your argument fails. However...
Any new leader in any political power be it a democracy or otherwise, will change the laws of that nation to suit the character and intentions of the new leadership. This is a universal truth. Therefore there is absolutely nothing strange or momentous in the little horn's intentions to change laws and is unworthy of a prophetic comment... If those laws were man's laws. But it is worthy of prophetic comment if the laws he was hoping or thinking to change were God's laws, in particular His Ten Commandments.
So. Was there a power that grew out of the pagan Roman empire that thought to officially change any of the Ten Commandments, and enforce that change on others? The answer is yes. The Catholic Church. The early church observed the Sabbath, as is clearly indicated in Acts. There are over 50 specific Sabbaths mentioned in Acts. There are 7 Sundays, or first days of the week. The word Sunday does not exist in biblical literature. 4 of those 7 were referencing the day of the resurrection. That leaves 3. One of those 3 was a plea by Paul that church members throughout Asia set aside some money that he could collect when he visited on behalf of the church in Jerusalem because they were starving... Possibly due to persecution. This is not a ground for changing the day of meeting together, Paul said the first day because the day previous, the Sabbath, was not appropriate for counting money and doing finance inventory.
The 2nd of those 3, Acts 20:7, was a night time meeting, specifically Saturday night, because Paul was walking many miles the next day to visit churches elsewhere. Paul meanwhile had been fellowshipping with them all Sabbath, no doubt preaching, and because he was leaving, the meeting continued until midnight Saturday... The first day of the week.
The only other time the first day was mentioned was when the disciples were gathered together in a room just after the crucifixion because they were afraid of the Jews. Jesus appeared to them and said NOTHING about any change to the commandments He had personally written on stone at Sinai. There was His opportunity to establish the new doctrine. He didn't. Not one peep did He mutter in favor of any change. And none of the disciples thought otherwise.
The Jews who converted to the new religion were shocked and dismayed at not having to be circumcised. For decades after the resurrection, this ancient Jewish practice caused any amount of controversy, Paul even succumbing at one stage and having Timothy circumcised. But nowhere in scripture or Christian history is there one suggestion that the early Jewish converts raised any concerns or asked any questions or challenged the validity of Sunday sacredness. Why not,? Because it wasn't an issue, there was no change from the Sabbath to any other day. And on this history the church today justifies Sunday????
It was during this time that the Jews made up a prayer for those in the synagogue that blasphemed Jesus, and this exposed the Christians and forced them to leave the synagogue.
Sunday came about initially because the unconverted Jews rebelled against Rome and instigated reprisals. One of the identifying characteristics of course was their observance of Sabbath, and the Romans took advantage of this to persecute them in their synagogues. Christians, who at that time worshipped with the Jews on Sabbath, got caught up in the mayhem. Many therefore started gathering together on the first day of the week in order to escape attention... Yet they still observed Sabbath. For some time this worked, until Constantine made Sunday rest a legislated affair. And the Catholic Church confirmed this arrangement at the council of Laodicea in the 5th century...I think. At the same time the church raised persecution against those who were still observing the Sabbath...a majority of Christians elsewhere. Historians record the observance of the Sabbath throughout Christian history. It isn't a modern phenomenon. Not is it a choice to obey a specific Commandment at your leisure or convenience.

But this isn't the subject of those thread. It's about who the Antichrist is, and what evidence do we have to identify him. I can pull out at least 10 specific biblical criteria that apply to this entity in prophecy, and give historical and real world proof that those criteria apply solely to specifically and uniquely to papal Rome. I can write about these of you wish. But it involves trouble for you... First you will need to do some extensive and deeper studying and reading... Second it will spell trouble for your current belief system.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,845
1,213
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First, I didn't say Daniel was mentioning Sunday laws, so your argument fails. However...

As if it isn't exactly what you believe. Just going to ignore the whole "THINK to change times and laws". You have more than once so likely that will continue. The rest of the post is red herring rambling to avoid the real issues with SDA doctrine. Good people, bad doctrine.

No such thing as the MOB being related to Sunday anything. It isn't biblical.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,760
3,215
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.
This didn't represent a Church service, Paul and the disciples got together to "Eat" because Paul was leaving, he gave a "Speech"

Good Try "No Cigar"
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,845
1,213
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This didn't represent a Church service, Paul and the disciples got together to "Eat" because Paul was leaving, he gave a "Speech"

Good Try "No Cigar"

It says he preached. Deny it all you want.

Sunday preaching from the beginning of the NT church after the cross.
 

jcentricity

Member
Feb 24, 2023
42
7
8
50
Pittsburgh
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Hebrew, whether its the tower, the city, the empire, and its meaning in prophecy down to the close of human history and Christs return, are all the same Hebrew word babel , Babylon. Babel is Babylon and Babel is confusion.

The name Babylon is derived from BAB-ILU which was “gate of the gods” or "the portal of the gods", and in a sense it thus portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to God's prescribed plan of salvation. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith and the Protestant Reformers realized it and the system behind it.

The Babylonian system of worship has ever been a snare to God's people, as it is more in tune with human nature to rely on salvation by works than on salvation by grace. From the very beginning, these two systems of worship have been in confrontation with each other. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates this point. Abel listened to the divine directive and brought a lamb without blemish as an offering, but Cain brought the fruits of his labor. When the offering of Abel was accepted by God, the anger of Cain was aroused and ever since, this first confrontation between these two systems of worship, has been in conflict on this planet.

Ancient Babylon serves as a type of a much greater end-time confederacy of religious apostasy and intolerance that would seek to control conscience before the close of earth's history, and yet it will meet its end. We see in Revelation 14:8...
"And there followed another angel saying, 'Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Bible warns against Babylon, and urge God's people to come out of Babylon, and we see it also reflecting the spiritual decay of the system...

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Revelation 18:2

The unclean and hateful birds appears to reference a counterfeit Holy Spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, we see it with a warning..

"Come out of her My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4

God would not urge His people to come out of Babylon if it were impossible for them to identify Babylon. During the early Christian centuries, Jewish and Christian literature referred to the city of Rome as Babylon. 1 Peter 5:13 also refers to Rome as Babylon, as Peter wrote these words whilst in Rome, and literal Babylon no longer existed....

"The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." 1 Peter 5:13

In Revelation 17, John is invited to witness the judgment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters, seductively deceiving the inhabitants of the earth. This woman is subsequently identified as “ ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots’ ”. In the scriptures, a prostitute symbolically refers to God’s people in their apostasy. The portrayal of the prostitute in Revelation 17 shows that she represents an entity that was once faithful to God before aligning herself with the end-time opponent of God and His faithful remnant. Babylon is thus a corporate name for an end-time apostate entity.

The Protestants of the Reformation knew who it was and referred to it as spiritual Babylon, the antichrist entity and enemy of God's people. The woman that rides the beast in Revelation 17 also has all the identifying features which make it easier to find...

"1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Revelation 17:1-2.

The woman is first referenced to as sitting on “many waters” and according to Revelation 17:5, the waters upon which the prostitute was seen symbolize the civil, secular, and political powers of the world. Just as the ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will the end-time Babylon depend on the civil, secular, and political powers of the world to enforce its plans and purposes.

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:4-5.

In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church. Isaiah the prophet extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride. The pure bride represents the pure church..

"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee." Isaiah 62:5.

We find in the New Testament the same symbolism is employed...

"...for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Babylon is described in Revelation 17:5 as the "mother of harlots" an apostate religious systems or church, "Mystery" and the "abominations of the earth". Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite of this symbol or that system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations.

Its not hard to figure out who persecuted the saints, and brought in the paganism and abominable practices into the church...
Babylon represents a phase of Babylon that not only includes traditional pagans but now Apostate Christendom or Apostate churches. Rght now even a portion of the Protestant denominations that came out of the Reformation have become Apostate like the Church of England. That's why angel says "Come out of her...." basically if you are in a church that becomes Apostate you should leave the church. These Apostate churches are involved in Antichrist spiritual commerce specifically they are "selling" an Apostate gospel that people are "buying". In addition given the Book of Revelation contains many dualities it cannot be ruled out that Babylon actually represents the literal ancient city of Babylon will be rebuilt to be destroyed again in the Book of Revelation because it says "the city is spiritually like Sodom and Egypt" so then city could be viewed as literal Babylon because it does not make sense to say a spiritual city is spiritually like other spiritual cities.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

GRACE ambassador

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2021
2,371
1,532
113
71
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
...angel says "Come out of her...." basically if you are in a church that becomes Apostate you should leave the church...
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
! (+ I and II!)

Grace, Peace, And JOY!…
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Babylon represents a phase of Babylon that not only includes traditional pagans but now Apostate Christendom or Apostate churches. Rght now even a portion of the Protestant denominations that came out of the Reformation have become Apostate like the Church of England. That's why angel says "Come out of her...." basically if you are in a church that becomes Apostate you should leave the church. These Apostate churches are involved in Antichrist spiritual commerce specifically they are "selling" an Apostate gospel that people are "buying". In addition given the Book of Revelation contains many dualities it cannot be ruled out that Babylon actually represents the literal ancient city of Babylon will be rebuilt to be destroyed again in the Book of Revelation because it says "the city is spiritually like Sodom and Egypt" so then city could be viewed as literal Babylon because it does not make sense to say a spiritual city is spiritually like other spiritual cities.
Nah... the 'come out of her' Babylon idea is NOT APPLICABLE yet today.

The mystery Babylon of Revelation is about the city of JERUSALEM fallen into IDOL WORSHIP when the coming pseudo-Christ ends the orthodox Jew's animal sacrifices there, and he instead places the "abomination of desolation" idol that Lord Jesus warned us about for the end, in His Olivet discourse.

I know some find it difficult to believe that event is going to happen in future JERUSALEM, but that is what the Scriptures are actually pointing to for the end about the Babylon Harlot. The last verse of Rev.17 even tells us that Babylon Harlot is a "great city", just as Rev.11:8 does also!

So the Jew's FALSE DOCTRINE of trying to cast the devil's shadow even over apostate churches by the idea of the Revelation Babylon, including PROTESTANT CHURCHES if you'll notice brethren, which is what jcentricity also included, is nothing but a charade.

There will be deceived Christian brethren that will believe the false Jew's theories and will fall away with them to bow to that pseudo-Christ that comes first. But it won't happen with those in Christ that listen to His warnings and His Apostle's warnings about the end of this world.

1. There will... be a 3rd Jewish temple built in JERUSALEM for the coming "great tribulation".

2. The orthodox unbelieving Jews in JERUSALEM will startup old covenant animal sacrifices again once that new 3rd temple is built for the end. It maybe that the coming pseudo-Messiah (Antichrist) will be here to help initiate that building, as the orthodox Jews today are still... waiting for the Messiah of The Bible to come.

3. That pseudo-Christ that will come first, after the first 1260 day period of Daniel's 70th "one week" of Dan.9:27, will in the middle end... those Jew's sacrifices in JERUSALEM, and instead place the "abomination that maketh desolate" in that 3rd temple, which Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel in giving His Signs of the end.

4. That pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah, or Antichrist, or "man of sin", or "that Wicked", or that "another beast", or "dragon", will then demand that ALL the world bow in worship to him as God, or to be killed. In this respect, that event will be a repeat of events much like what Nebuchadnezzar, king of historical Babylon did when setting up a gold image of himself, and demanding all bow in worship to it or be killed. (See end of Revelation 13 about the "image of the beast").

5. Towards the latter half of Daniel's "one week" of the "great tribulation", that is when the delivering up of some of Christ's elect will happen, for them to give a TESTIMONY by The Holy Spirit against the beast (Mark 13).

6. On the 7th Trumpet, the "last trump" of Apostle Paul, that is when Jesus will come with His great army, and the "day of the Lord" events will take place...
a. God's consuming fire burns man's works off this earth, and changes all to the time of the world to come ending this flesh world.
b. Christ's faithful still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and to the asleep saints He brings with Him.
c. Some of the wicked are suddenly destroyed on earth. The wicked dead are raised on that day also.
d. Jesus with all His faithful Church go to JERUSALEM on earth, to the Mount of Olives, and begin His "thousand years" reign over all nations per Rev.20.
e. Christ's Millennial temple is created on earth where Jesus and His elect Church will reign from, and where God's River will return then along with the tree of life on the sides of that River.
f. Only Christ's faithful Church will be allowed access thru the gates of the beloved city then, and have access to the tree of life. The wicked's place will be outside the gates of the beloved city, in the "outer darkness" where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth showing their shame for having rejected Jesus Christ.
 

jcentricity

Member
Feb 24, 2023
42
7
8
50
Pittsburgh
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
! (+ I and II!)

Grace, Peace, And JOY!…

Nah... the 'come out of her' Babylon idea is NOT APPLICABLE yet today.

The mystery Babylon of Revelation is about the city of JERUSALEM fallen into IDOL WORSHIP when the coming pseudo-Christ ends the orthodox Jew's animal sacrifices there, and he instead places the "abomination of desolation" idol that Lord Jesus warned us about for the end, in His Olivet discourse.

I know some find it difficult to believe that event is going to happen in future JERUSALEM, but that is what the Scriptures are actually pointing to for the end about the Babylon Harlot. The last verse of Rev.17 even tells us that Babylon Harlot is a "great city", just as Rev.11:8 does also!

So the Jew's FALSE DOCTRINE of trying to cast the devil's shadow even over apostate churches by the idea of the Revelation Babylon, including PROTESTANT CHURCHES if you'll notice brethren, which is what jcentricity also included, is nothing but a charade.

There will be deceived Christian brethren that will believe the false Jew's theories and will fall away with them to bow to that pseudo-Christ that comes first. But it won't happen with those in Christ that listen to His warnings and His Apostle's warnings about the end of this world.

1. There will... be a 3rd Jewish temple built in JERUSALEM for the coming "great tribulation".

2. The orthodox unbelieving Jews in JERUSALEM will startup old covenant animal sacrifices again once that new 3rd temple is built for the end. It maybe that the coming pseudo-Messiah (Antichrist) will be here to help initiate that building, as the orthodox Jews today are still... waiting for the Messiah of The Bible to come.

3. That pseudo-Christ that will come first, after the first 1260 day period of Daniel's 70th "one week" of Dan.9:27, will in the middle end... those Jew's sacrifices in JERUSALEM, and instead place the "abomination that maketh desolate" in that 3rd temple, which Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel in giving His Signs of the end.

4. That pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah, or Antichrist, or "man of sin", or "that Wicked", or that "another beast", or "dragon", will then demand that ALL the world bow in worship to him as God, or to be killed. In this respect, that event will be a repeat of events much like what Nebuchadnezzar, king of historical Babylon did when setting up a gold image of himself, and demanding all bow in worship to it or be killed. (See end of Revelation 13 about the "image of the beast").

5. Towards the latter half of Daniel's "one week" of the "great tribulation", that is when the delivering up of some of Christ's elect will happen, for them to give a TESTIMONY by The Holy Spirit against the beast (Mark 13).

6. On the 7th Trumpet, the "last trump" of Apostle Paul, that is when Jesus will come with His great army, and the "day of the Lord" events will take place...
a. God's consuming fire burns man's works off this earth, and changes all to the time of the world to come ending this flesh world.
b. Christ's faithful still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and to the asleep saints He brings with Him.
c. Some of the wicked are suddenly destroyed on earth. The wicked dead are raised on that day also.
d. Jesus with all His faithful Church go to JERUSALEM on earth, to the Mount of Olives, and begin His "thousand years" reign over all nations per Rev.20.
e. Christ's Millennial temple is created on earth where Jesus and His elect Church will reign from, and where God's River will return then along with the tree of life on the sides of that River.
f. Only Christ's faithful Church will be allowed access thru the gates of the beloved city then, and have access to the tree of life. The wicked's place will be outside the gates of the beloved city, in the "outer darkness" where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth showing their shame for having rejected Jesus Christ.
Church of England just became Apostate and you don't agree that at Babylon represents a phase of paganism that not only includes traditional pagans but also Apostate churches? Message to people in England is the angels message "Come out of the church" because the church is Babylon because the King of Babylon Satan is ruling in the church. 4th beast is the Roman Empire the majority of churches in Nation States aka Revived Roman Empire (EU, America, Canada. ) have become Apostate they have joined Babylon. The doctrine of demons Paul is referring to is age old paganism revived in the church which includes things such as the worship of saints, sepulchres, relics and sexual immorality. There are many dualities in Book of Revelation it can't be ruled out that Babylon also refers to the ancient city of Babylon that will be rebuilt. Apostates in the Greek equals 666. Babylon is mentioned over 300 times in the Book of Revelation and it always meant Babylon. You can't get to Book of Revelation and have it mean some other city that's not consistent with Old Testament. Papacy believes through Transubstantiation Eucharist Mass Wafer literally becomes Jesus. They have turned bread into the worst idol of the ages. What idol can be worst then saying the Godhead is literally a wafer? The wafer is their god = Abomination of Desolation = Image of the beast. The wafer "speaks" through their church doctrine. Also Jerusalem may be a daughter of Babylon but it's not the Mother of harlots Babylon aka Babel has always been the Mother of paganism. All geographic locations in the Book of Revelation are literal except where it says it's explicitly spiritual which only occurs once when it states "the great city is spiritually like Sodom (spiritual city) and Egypt (spiritual city)" proving" Babylon must be literal Babylon.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Church of England just became Apostate and you don't agree that at Babylon represents a phase of paganism that not only includes traditional pagans but also Apostate churches? Message to people in England is the angels message "Come out of the church" because the church is Babylon because the King of Babylon Satan is ruling in the church. 4th beast is the Roman Empire the majority of churches in Nation States aka Revived Roman Empire (EU, America, Canada. ) have become Apostate they have joined Babylon. The doctrine of demons Paul is referring to is age old paganism revived in the church which includes things such as the worship of saints, sepulchres, relics and sexual immorality. There are many dualities in Book of Revelation it can't be ruled out that Babylon also refers to the ancient city of Babylon that will be rebuilt. Apostates in the Greek equals 666. Babylon is mentioned over 300 times in the Book of Revelation and it always meant Babylon. You can't get to Book of Revelation and have it mean some other city that's not consistent with Old Testament. Papacy believes through Transubstantiation Eucharist Mass Wafer literally becomes Jesus. They have turned bread into the worst idol of the ages. What idol can be worst then saying the Godhead is literally a wafer? The wafer is their god = Abomination of Desolation = Image of the beast. The wafer "speaks" through their church doctrine. Also Jerusalem may be a daughter of Babylon but it's not the Mother of harlots Babylon aka Babel has always been the Mother of paganism. All geographic locations in the Book of Revelation are literal except where it says it's explicitly spiritual which only occurs once when it states "the great city is spiritually like Sodom (spiritual city) and Egypt (spiritual city)" proving" Babylon must be literal Babylon.
Nope, not about the Church of England either. It's about JERUSALEM with the coming FALSE MESSIAH as king over ALL THE WORLD, with God's consuming fire getting ready to fall upon her on the LAST DAY.

Rev 18:4-5
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins, and
that you receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and the Lord hath remembered her iniquities.
Douay-Rheims


I guess you forgot to read that "that you receive not of her plagues" in the context of her final destruction per that Rev.18 chapter? That revels what the timing for that is, i.e. come out away her so as to not be joined with the plagues God will send upon her at the last day.
 

jcentricity

Member
Feb 24, 2023
42
7
8
50
Pittsburgh
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nope, not about the Church of England either. It's about JERUSALEM with the coming FALSE MESSIAH as king over ALL THE WORLD, with God's consuming fire getting ready to fall upon her on the LAST DAY.

Rev 18:4-5
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins, and
that you receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and the Lord hath remembered her iniquities.
Douay-Rheims


I guess you forgot to read that "that you receive not of her plagues" in the context of her final destruction per that Rev.18 chapter? That revels what the timing for that is, i.e. come out away her so as to not be joined with the plagues God will send upon her at the last day.
Bible says Babylon will be destroyed to the point it will never be inhabited again so it can't mean Jerusalem because Jerusalem will be inhabited by Israel when they come into full belief. Again there are many dualities in Book of Revelation. Christians belong to spiritual Jerusalem aka heaven and our earthly city is literal Jerusalem. Pagans and Apostate churches are citizens of hell and their earthly city is literal Babylon. Babylon in the Book of Revelation is a phase of Babylon that not only includes traditional pagans but also Apostate churches which are primarily in Europe and America.

1. The destruction will "...utterly destroy her" (Jer. 50:26). This has not yet been fulfilled because the Persians took ancient Babylon in a relatively peaceful conquest. Babylon was not "utterly destroyed."

2. "...it will never again be inhabited" (Jer. 50:39). This has not yet been fulfilled because history records the city has never been without some degree of habitation.

3. "...Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there..." (Isaiah 13:20). This has not yet been fulfilled because Arab villages have been documented at Babylon.

4. "And they will not take from you even a stone for a corner Nor a stone for foundations, But you will be desolate forever," (Jeremiah 51:26). This has not yet been fulfilled because history records Babylon's ancient stones have been reused for centuries.

5. "The oracle concerning Babylon... nations gathered together... the farthest horizons ...for the day of the Lord is near..." (Isaiah 13). Isaiah 13 clearly tells that Babylon will be destroyed in "the day of the Lord".


Not one of these prophecies have ever been fulfilled. Therefore, Mystery Babylon is a future Babylon that must be rebuilt.

The Bible not only shows that a literal Babylon will exist at the end of our age, but it will be resurrected in the same location as its ancient predecessor in the Middle East:

"And he said to me, "To build a house for it in the land of Shinar; when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base." (Zechariah 5:11)

It is going to reemerge in the land of Shinar known today as Iraq (Zechariah 5:11; Isaiah 13). The city of Babylon is in the country of Iraq.

Babylon is mentioned over 300 times in the bible and it always meant literal Babylon. To say Babylon in Old Testament meant literal Babylon and in New Testament it means some other city in prophetically consistent.
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,283
581
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Babylon in the Book of Revelation is a phase of Babylon that not only includes traditional pagans but also Apostate churches which are primarily in Europe and America.
Do you not understand that all religion came out of Nebuchadnezzar's city? Even Hinduism and Buddhism and all eastern religions? This harlot of mystery Babylon includes every single religion on earth. All religion will be destroyed by the ten horns.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you not understand that all religion came out of Nebuchadnezzar's city? Even Hinduism and Buddhism and all eastern religions? This harlot of mystery Babylon includes every single religion on earth. All religion will be destroyed by the ten horns.
Not all religion, but all PAGAN religion, even the religion of Baal that the children of Israel fell into at times.

And it started BEFORE Nebuchadnezzar. The ancient Assyria cuneiform tablets pre-date ole Neb.

The Assyriologists from the clay tablets translated a Sargon I, a Semite, suddenly appearing among the ancient land and "blackhead" peoples of Sumer (before it was Babylon, and "blackheads" is what they said the Sumerians called themselves). Sargon taught the Sumerians canal building to control crop production, many of the sciences, and he built their very first city. The Sumerians called Sargon 'son of Bel', or 'son of the dragon'. The original date in the tablets that Sargon appeared among them was 3800 B.C., but because that early date did not agree with what the Assyriologists believed at the time, they changed it to a later date.

I believe Sargon was Cain, and ancient Sumer was the Biblical "land of Nod". So just as murder and wickedness began with Cain, so did false worship.
 

strepho

Active Member
Jan 31, 2023
398
123
43
51
Meriden
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation chapter 13, it's one world political system. It receives deadly wound near future. Nations leave it. Satan as antichrist comes 6th trump, heals deadly wound by absorbing nations back in the system. Now it's one world religious system. 5 month period. Babylon is confusion. Hosea chapter 4 warns people stay away from Beth Aven. It means house of emptiness. They teach tradition of men. Some churches have failed in their capacity to prepare people for antichrist. Ephesians chapter 6, the gospel armour is only way past antichrist lies and deception. It's knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Being biblically illiterate is dangerous.
 

forever

Member
Jul 7, 2021
162
12
18
51
Kampen
Faith
Christian
Country
Netherlands
yes she does .... the evil region 'east of this earth'

hence as the region where the '200 million kings [=demons]' will come from to invade earth

this earth -- not made by God -- is called 'the fortress' and 'the land far-away' in prophets

but Mystery-Babylon is that evil region in the east : ruling earth
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,845
1,213
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation chapter 13, it's one world political system. It receives deadly wound near future. Nations leave it. Satan as antichrist comes 6th trump, heals deadly wound by absorbing nations back in the system. Now it's one world religious system. 5 month period.


It's 42 months not 5 months.