Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[Strat]

Just to think, one day christians will let God be God, and they will stop placing all these limits on Him then complaining when nothing happens, but guess what, God is going to use children, men and women, young and old of all nations and creeds to do His will because they choose to let God be God,and God doesnt care for your opinions, He will do what He is going to do whether you believe He can or not and with or without you. If you are a women and placed that foolish limit on God . than dont expect big things to happen for you have chosen to not let Him use you. Your choice not His.

In all His Love

So this is the new way to justify things,veiw the Bible as being a limit on God and disregard it to free God and yourself from those limits

While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38).
The early Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.

Havn't you heard....Gods word places limits on God and he has given special revelation to certain special people to disregard the Bible and free us all....even God from those limits.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Paul seems to be speaking a personal preference in Timothy about not allowing women to speak or teach. He does not say 'do not', he says 'I do not'

As always, it sure would been great to have the letters from the churches that Paul was responding to - it would clear up all sorts of ambiguity.

Aspen is absolutely correct on this one , Paul makes it clear that it is his preference not to have women speak or teach in the gatherings he is involved with.

I do not interpret it as a blanket statement or commandment to be applied to every group.

If it was , we would have to remove all the (women) Sunday school teachers and (women) church workers .... and I can guarantee our churches would all wither and die within a couple of years.

Not to forget a lot of great gospel music and singing comes from the women among us.

We must acknowlege that women attach much more emotion to things than men , often women confuse emotionalim with Spiritualism , and in such cases they do not make the best church elders , but there are many spiritualy solid women who do an admirable job.

In modern day we see many of our former good Christian churches move toward liberalism , and some even kick Jesus out all together. I find that men are usually the leaders of this apostacy.

 

[101G]

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I submit unto you two proof, that the apostle was talking to wives, married women only.

Proof #1. 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve".

Eve was the, "WIFE", of Adam. so here in verse 13 in referring to the woman Eve this way, it showed the relationship of HUSBAND and WIFE. so why did the apostle used the name Eve here, it was to be known that he was talking to married women.

EVE, G2096 Eua (yoo'-ah) n/p.
1. Eua (or Eva, i.e. Chavvah)
2. Eve, the first woman, and the wife of Adam
[of Hebrew origin (H2332)]
KJV: Eve
Root(s): H2332

so by using this direct personal name of this woman, it indicate that the apostle is speaking of "MARRIED WOMEN".

Proof #2. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

the only woman, legally who suppose to have, or bear children is a woman who is MARRIED, (to her OWN husband), meaning she have a husband, to legally bear children..



so these scriptures plainly tells us that the apostle was talking to MARRIED WOMEN, WIVES. and not to Women in General.



there are more hidden information embedded in these scripture, but these are the most notable.



Love and peace

101G

 

[neophyte]

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I submit unto you two proof, that the apostle was talking to wives, married women only.

Proof #1. 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve".

Eve was the, "WIFE", of Adam. so here in verse 13 in referring to the woman Eve this way, it showed the relationship of HUSBAND and WIFE. so why did the apostle used the name Eve here, it was to be known that he was talking to married women.

EVE, G2096 Eua (yoo'-ah) n/p.
1. Eua (or Eva, i.e. Chavvah)
2. Eve, the first woman, and the wife of Adam
[of Hebrew origin (H2332)]
KJV: Eve
Root(s): H2332

so by using this direct personal name of this woman, it indicate that the apostle is speaking of "MARRIED WOMEN".

Proof #2. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

the only woman, legally who suppose to have, or bear children is a woman who is MARRIED, (to her OWN husband), meaning she have a husband, to legally bear children..



so these scriptures plainly tells us that the apostle was talking to MARRIED WOMEN, WIVES. and not to Women in General.



there are more hidden information embedded in these scripture, but these are the most notable.



Love and peace

101G

While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38). Follow the Teachings of Christ or follow the teachings of man [ women ]

 

[101G]

2 neophyte,

is there anything constructive you can add to the discussion?.

2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth".


Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


Be blessed,



Love and Peace
101G

 

[Strat]

Aspen is absolutely correct on this one , Paul makes it clear that it is his preference not to have women speak or teach in the gatherings he is involved with.

I do not interpret it as a blanket statement or commandment to be applied to every group.

If it was , we would have to remove all the (women) Sunday school teachers and (women) church workers .... and I can guarantee our churches would all wither and die within a couple of years.

Not to forget a lot of great gospel music and singing comes from the women among us.

We must acknowlege that women attach much more emotion to things than men , often women confuse emotionalim with Spiritualism , and in such cases they do not make the best church elders , but there are many spiritualy solid women who do an admirable job.

In modern day we see many of our former good Christian churches move toward liberalism , and some even kick Jesus out all together. I find that men are usually the leaders of this apostacy.

Since you seem so determined to suggest that women are the backbone of christianity and it would end as we know it without them how come the divorce rate among christians is the same as non christians and as with non christians the woman is the one who intiates it ? The bible teaches that men and women are different with different roles,modern feminism as well as the modern church says that woman are perectly capable of fullfilling any role a man can play while he is limited to only a few things he can do if he doesn't screw it up without a woman to guide him.The world and the modern church as usual speak with one voice.....your position that woman carry the load and men are just along for the ride has no evidence apart from the anecdotal....everybody knows a man who..... or a woman who....

 

[lawrance]

Aspen is absolutely correct on this one , Paul makes it clear that it is his preference not to have women speak or teach in the gatherings he is involved with.

I do not interpret it as a blanket statement or commandment to be applied to every group.

If it was , we would have to remove all the (women) Sunday school teachers and (women) church workers .... and I can guarantee our churches would all wither and die within a couple of years.

Not to forget a lot of great gospel music and singing comes from the women among us.

We must acknowlege that women attach much more emotion to things than men , often women confuse emotionalim with Spiritualism , and in such cases they do not make the best church elders , but there are many spiritualy solid women who do an admirable job.

In modern day we see many of our former good Christian churches move toward liberalism , and some even kick Jesus out all together. I find that men are usually the leaders of this apostacy.

If we look at the RCC view women are involved in all things, but one and that is being a priest.
Woman teach and all, as their involvement is encouraged full on,
But now days the old ego likes to rule and Satan's PC infested the Church's with the old me, me, me! i want want want !

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Since you seem so determined to suggest that women are the backbone of christianity and it would end as we know it without them

I do not recall using the words "women are the backbone" .... but I will modify my original comment in the following manner ....

Check your local congregation and observe who does the majority of the work , and sunday school teaching , and youth programs etc. It is usually the women.

And if there is a sunday morning debate at home about going to church .... it is usually the woman badgering the man to go , not the other way around.

And if there is someone in the family urging children to live a life in the straight and narrow ... it is usually the mother.

The best (male) pastors , teachers and scholars and priests will often say that it was mother who encouraged them in that direction.

 

[christiantc]

To God the only thing different between a man and a women is this orrible thing called the flesh, We are all one spirit, there is neither male or feamle in the spirirt. God will use whom He chooses nd really does not care for mans oinions. He uses both men and women because He can and they are both willing.
In all His Love

You are on point. I love your comment.

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I submit unto you two proof, that the apostle was talking to wives, married women only.

Proof #1. 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve".

Eve was the, "WIFE", of Adam. so here in verse 13 in referring to the woman Eve this way, it showed the relationship of HUSBAND and WIFE. so why did the apostle used the name Eve here, it was to be known that he was talking to married women.

EVE, G2096 Eua (yoo'-ah) n/p.
1. Eua (or Eva, i.e. Chavvah)
2. Eve, the first woman, and the wife of Adam
[of Hebrew origin (H2332)]
KJV: Eve
Root(s): H2332

so by using this direct personal name of this woman, it indicate that the apostle is speaking of "MARRIED WOMEN".

Proof #2. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

the only woman, legally who suppose to have, or bear children is a woman who is MARRIED, (to her OWN husband), meaning she have a husband, to legally bear children..



so these scriptures plainly tells us that the apostle was talking to MARRIED WOMEN, WIVES. and not to Women in General.



there are more hidden information embedded in these scripture, but these are the most notable.



Love and peace

101G

The only deference between a man and a woman is the flesh. god is a God not of the flesh but of the spirit. the spirit (Holy spirit) does not discriminate on gender lines. Jesus chooses, empowers and anoints whoever He wishing for the ministry either man who woman according to His will and grace. Man cannot dictate on God what to do, who to choose and who not.
In Joel 2 we see that even daughters will prophecy also in times of Paul, there were women in the ministry. God is a universal God who does not discriminate on lines of gender. All men are equal in His eyes

 

[Strat]

I do not recall using the words "women are the backbone" .... but I will modify my original comment in the following manner ....

Check your local congregation and observe who does the majority of the work , and sunday school teaching , and youth programs etc. It is usually the women.

And if there is a sunday morning debate at home about going to church .... it is usually the woman badgering the man to go , not the other way around.

And if there is someone in the family urging children to live a life in the straight and narrow ... it is usually the mother.

The best (male) pastors , teachers and scholars and priests will often say that it was mother who encouraged them in that direction.

You said " and i can guarantee that ALL our churches would wither and die within a couple of years"...all of them ? Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church..he did not say that they would wither and die without women....women like men play a role in the church,your assumptions that they do their jobs and men don't to the point that "all" would be lost if they didn't is not based on anything but your own opinion...a woman sinned first and a man followed so yes men are certainly at risk but women are no less at risk and to say otherwise is just feminism speaking.The whole foolish notion of the moral superiority of women in general can be put to rest with one word....Abortion which occurs both in and out of the church.

 

[epouraniois]

Iwould like to add, re:
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Noteably, when any clause, but esp the beginning of a verse, begins with the word, 'For', the grammar is indicating an argument for what has just been stated.
Here, we can look back to Genesis, and see that Adam loved his wife very much, so much so, that he knowingly comitted sin with her. He was not deceived, but the woman was deceived. Loving her so much, staying by her side even through that trial, we are provided with an example of the reasoning behind Paul's wanting the wife to hold quietness if she is coming into the assembly.

The word sobriety deserves a closer look as well:

G4997
σωφροσύνη
sōphrosunē
so-fros-oo'-nay
From G4998; soundness of mind, that is, (literally) sanity or (figuratively) self control: - soberness, sobriety.

Paul is talking about self control here. Context context context.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

You said " and i can guarantee that ALL our churches would wither and die within a couple of years"...all of them ?

Dont twist my words please. I said that our typical churches would wither and die without all the efforts from our women.

 

[Strat]

Dont twist my words please. I said that our typical churches would wither and die without all the efforts from our women.

Please read your own post,the word "typical" is not found anywhere in it and you also go so far as to blame only men for the apostacy in today's churches..it is normal for the modern christian to play the blame game and choose sides that almost always are politically correct.

 

[mandygirl]

The only way a woman could be a pastor is to have a church of just women and children--no men. Of course, it does seem to be just Paul's personal opinion about women not teaching or having authority over men, and I tend to agree with him--be it God's words or not.

Thats a good point, I agree with you. Women are not have autority over men and Thankyou for citing the scripture.

 

[101G]

Women in Ministry



Greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus.


God must be worship in Spirit and in truth. it appears some christians don't have the truth in them. and I hope that they do have the Spirit. lets put it to the test.
1 John 4:2 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God".

1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world".


now the test, 2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".


lets see if one passed the test.


Answer truthfully: can a woman, (female), hold any of the Spiritual gifts, in the church. please answer by a "Y", or a "N".



just remember, "16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more".


Love and Peace

101G

 

[Strat]

Points for creativity.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Please read your own post,the word "typical" is not found anywhere in it and you also go so far as to blame only men for the apostacy in today's churches..it is normal for the modern christian to play the blame game and choose sides that almost always are politically correct.

You are beyond any help I can offer you strat. You are on your own. Below I reproduced exactly what I originally wrote. I highlighted the pertinent parts in blue ..... but I still expect you not understand.

.

Aspen is absolutely correct on this one , Paul makes it clear that it is his preference not to have women speak or teach in the gatherings he is involved with.

I do not interpret it as a blanket statement or commandment to be applied to every group.

If it was , we would have to remove all the (women) Sunday school teachers and (women) church workers .... and I can guarantee our churches would all wither and die within a couple of years.

 

[aspen]

how to win a losing argument 101

If your argument is too weak to win:

1. pick apart the language of your opponent.
2. make statements like 'try being honest, for once'
3. use past statements from your opponent against him - don't worry if they are out of context - no one with remember the original post anyway!
4. attack the character of your opponent
5. make false accusations against your opponent, which lump him into a group that is despised by the group you belong to.

 

[Strat]

You are beyond any help I can offer you strat. You are on your own. Below I reproduced exactly what I originally wrote. I highlighted the pertinent parts in blue ..... but I still expect you not understand.

.

Where is the word "typical" ?....what does the word "all" mean ? the word "our" ? and you also offer a personal guarantee to boot that without women the church would "wither and die"....not much left to the imagination there.....you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist.

how to win a losing argument 101

If your argument is too weak to win:

1. pick apart the language of your opponent.
2. make statements like 'try being honest, for once'
3. use past statements from your opponent against him - don't worry if they are out of context - no one with remember the original post anyway!
4. attack the character of your opponent
5. make false accusations against your opponent, which lump him into a group that is despised by the group you belong to.

or accuse others of doing what you yourself have done many times.

 

[101G]

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.

why the argument?. what purpose dose it serve. if one speak the truth, why argue?. for the scripture is no man's private interpretation. this is a discussion. as Christians the GOAL is to seek truth, right.......................right. pray for one another so that the Lord Jesus my open ones eyes. in the Christian family, again, wining an argument serves what purpose. should we be winning souls?. everyone will not get it. they are blinded by God for a reason. if one knows the truth in the state of mind they are in now it could drive them away, or worst destroy their souls. so some are blinded until they can recognize or accept the truth. supportive scripture, Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God". old teaching is hard to break, but, Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?", and there are some here who are not able to hears, why?, Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people". and we have those same non-hearing, non believing Israelites among us today. Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid". NO, listen, this is what have happen to them, even until today. Romans 11:7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day". even today those who refuse the truth is still blinded. as the apostle said it is written, where?. Isaiah 6:9 "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed". but some hearts are still covered, even in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:14 "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord". only until their hearts turn is the vail removed.

someone might say, I'm not following Moses. Oh yes you are, those who taught you that women can't preach, teach or ect..... is your Moses. but another might say, I'm following the scriptures. if so then your mind will know from the understanding of the gospel that is preached to you this day that this is a truth. but your heart is still covered by the veil of rebellion. just as your forefather did in the wilderness, and was overthrown. when Stephen told the council . Acts 6:8 "And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. 10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. 11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God". and by telling the truth, his life was taken. yes the truth is a high price, but life in Christ is better. so to those who know the truth, just speak the truth, for one plant, another water, but God give the increase. so plant a seed, (speak the truth, in Love). and let God work on the unbelieving heart. Amen.

be blessed,

Love and Peace
101G