Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[101G]

2 epouraniois

My reading is that God was literally married, and divorced, and seeking to again take not only the reconstituted wife, but the bride as well, that there is a real marriage supper going to take place.


good eye, reconstituted, that's why one must be born from above, or born again. true God never left Israel. he just put her away. scripture, Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away".

as for the reconstituted wife, just read the story of Hosea and Gomer. good pattern of God and his wayward people.



be blessed.

 

[neophyte]

2 epouraniois

My reading is that God was literally married, and divorced, and seeking to again take not only the reconstituted wife, but the bride as well, that there is a real marriage supper going to take place.


good eye, reconstituted, that's why one must be born from above, or born again. true God never left Israel. he just put her away. scripture, Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away".

as for the reconstituted wife, just read the story of Hosea and Gomer. good pattern of God and his wayward people.



be blessed.

The Book of Hosea says that Hosea married a prostitute named Gomer at the Lord’s command (Hos.1: 2-3). It is generally thought that Hosea’s relationship with Gomer was an image of God’s relationship with Israel, which often betrayed its spousal covenant with the one true God by worshipping the false gods of the pagans.

 

[epouraniois]

I am tired of you Protestants [ Protestant, anybody that protests against Christ's Apostolic/ Catholic Church ] inventing another church totally different from Christ's Church along with a different gospel, much different from Christ's One True Gospel.

And which church is it that you state I am inventing? I am happy to provide a wealth of Scriptural support of all I convey. I am afraid we are getting off topic though, and this may be a good time for you to begin a new thread if you want to open up a new subject.

We were pretty much making note of some differences (which we are instructed to do), about the relationships as God has set them forth, whether or not merely being a woman negates the teaching of Scripture, and so forth.

The Book of Hosea says that Hosea married a prostitute named Gomer at the Lord’s command (Hos.1: 2-3). It is generally thought that Hosea’s relationship with Gomer was an image of God’s relationship with Israel, which often betrayed its spousal covenant with the one true God by worshipping the false gods of the pagans.

Yes, the story of Israel becoming Lo ammi, or, not my people - but the Lord goes a step further to say, 'and I will not be your God'. We saw this happen at the end of Acts, whereby, for the first time, the gentiles were given a message of their own, no longer dependant upon Israel to be the nation bearing blessings. It is a sad thing to be sure. Yet, the salvation of God was sent to the nations (gentiles) who will hear. And that's a good thing - but a different message.

 

[neophyte]

Would you kindly instuct me on how to start a new thread, Thank You and God Bless.

 

[epouraniois]

I forgot to add, which was my main intent, that 101G was agreeing imo, that the Lo ammi peoples are teh wayward people

of Hos

 

[101G]

neophyte

2 neophyte,
I have posted scripture stating my stance on the subject you can go back and check, and if you have any question, on the Scriptures just ask, ok, (smile)

be blessed.

Love and Peace
101G

 

[epouraniois]

Would you kindly instuct me on how to start a new thread, Thank You and God Bless.

click on the following link and in the upper right corner is a button to start a new topic
http://www.christianityboard.com/forum/10-general-christian-forum/

 

[neophyte]

click on the following link and in the upper right corner is a button to start a new topic
http://www.christian...hristian-forum/

Thank You, I will continue, on next time available. Good night and God Bless.

 

[epouraniois]

Hi HammerStone,

I didn't pick up on your reply, sorry.



According to Mickelson, the emphasis is on acting from oneself.

G831 authenteo (au-then-teh'-o) v.
1. to act of oneself
2.(figuratively) dominate
[from a compound of G846 and an obsolete hentes (a worker)]
KJV: usurp authority over
Root(s): G846

Regarding 'silence', Mickelson again.

G2271 ἡσυχίa hesuchia (hay-soo-khee'-ah) n.
1. (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
[feminine of G2272]
KJV: quietness, silence
Root(s): G2272


What immediately strikes me, is the contrast between speaking from oneself, and teaching objective truth.

Women who are called to teach, or, who find themselves teaching, do need to be very sensitive to the males who are present - if there are males present. Some brethren could not teach for toffee, and should not be expected to, but others could make a reasonable attempt even if not called. In the main, I believe a woman should defer to a man, as long as he also is filled with the Holy Spirit. If he is not, and she is, then politically incorrect as this might be, the spiritual authority is with her. Generally, I think it's okay for a woman to teach younger brethren, if she has been properly taught herself. Paul Washer says women should be taught exactly the same as men. If they have been, then the question of 'what' to teach is standardised. I have the feeling that when Paul was present, it would have been outrageous for a woman to 'teach', and that that is one of the ways to read this verse: 'I suffer not a woman to teach'.

Still, I would not make the case that every woman should think she could be a pastor, just as every man is not called to pastoring, but for those who are called, or, equipped by the Lord, there ought to be an outworking of God's will in his/her life. It is far more important to be in the centre of God's will, than to be somewhere else.

Greetings, and I just wanted to share with you that I thought what you wrote is also, very well said. 1 Tim is more of a personal letter, and certainly, when Paul was present he didn't want anyone else to be able to question the authority vested in him by God, while certainly he commended the women teachers, it was his message the Lord desired to be made known. I hope I said that so that it can be understood the way I want it delivered.

 

[lawrance]

And which church is it that you state I am inventing? I am happy to provide a wealth of Scriptural support of all I convey. I am afraid we are getting off topic though, and this may be a good time for you to begin a new thread if you want to open up a new subject.

We were pretty much making note of some differences (which we are instructed to do), about the relationships as God has set them forth, whether or not merely being a woman negates the teaching of Scripture, and so forth.



Yes, the story of Israel becoming Lo ammi, or, not my people - but the Lord goes a step further to say, 'and I will not be your God'. We saw this happen at the end of Acts, whereby, for the first time, the gentiles were given a message of their own, no longer dependant upon Israel to be the nation bearing blessings. It is a sad thing to be sure. Yet, the salvation of God was sent to the nations (gentiles) who will hear. And that's a good thing - but a different message.

What about all the Jews that converted to Christ in them days.( they were true Israel ?)

Israel is always Gods people, as that is what Israel means and it can not change and never has but for a people who were lost to idolatry, as they were before Jesus came, they were just Jews. not an Israel ? ( they were not in the Spirit ) they were lost !

 

[epouraniois]

What about all the Jews that converted to Christ in them days.( they were true Israel ?)

Israel is always Gods people, as that is what Israel means and it can not change and never has but for a people who were lost to idolatry, as they were before Jesus came, they were just Jews. not an Israel ? ( they were not in the Spirit ) they were lost !

We read instructions regarding this, they were to remain in the calling wherewith they were called. Yes, they were Israel. When you say 'true Israel', the implication is that there was an untrue Israel. By the time of NT writings, the word Israel, like the word Jews, signified one thing, meaning Hebrew peoples. The generic form does not account for the individual tribes in the way that specifics so often do.

one writer says it lik this:
In Philippians 3:5, Paul recorded his genealogy as being "of the stock of ISRAEL", even though he also referred to himself as being "of the tribe of Benjamin" (formerly associated with JUDAH)! Why did he not call himself a JEW of the tribe of Benjamin?

again:
"Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" (Acts 21:39 KJV)
"I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1 KJV)


Israel is God's chosen people for the earth, His earthly people. Even after the Lord arose from His passion & earthly ministry, they were still lost, see Acts 1 where 'only about 120 believed'. That's heavy duty. By the end of Acts there were not enough in God's eyes, to say that Israel had repented as a nation. They were to bear the fruit of repentance, they as a nation, did not. Although the kingdom was near, they could see it, they were to be healed and go forth after that, they did not and they were temporarily, parenthetically, set aside for a time. Christ warned them many times, the fig tree, that they would be cut off, hewn down as both John the Bapt said, then Christ next saying again, that if they did not bear fruit the tree would be cut down. It was, along with anyone un naturally graphed into her.

Rom 10
[sup]16 [/sup]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[sup]17 [/sup]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[sup]18 [/sup]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
[sup]19 [/sup]But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
[sup]20 [/sup]But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
[sup]21 [/sup]But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

I would point out that the word 'world' in vv18 is the same unusual word used by the Lord in Mat. 24, be preached unto all the world. This word is very restrictive and only encompasses the Roman Empire, wherein the Lord had 'scattered' them.

So I agree, they were certainly not able to worship in spirit, for they were carnal. They didn't want a righteous judge to judge them righteously, they, being carnal minded, did not understand how they were trained for centuries to receive the promised kingdom after their messiah came to fill to the full every jot and title written by and about Himself. If they did, they would have understood Hebrews where the case is made that in the before times, the cities of refuge would save even the murderer (if accidental) until the high priest died, at which time the judgment. What is the judgment? Well, it was that they are free, so in Hebrews they were to learn that the high priest is dead and that they are free from the burden of their sin, free to receive the judgment, which would be that they receive double for their shame and all those glorious and colorful words describing our Lord's forgiveness and reconciliation. Look up the word for peace in the OT, look at the surrounding words as well. It is much more than an absence of war. Again, they being carnal minded, did not see spiritually what was going on even though their promised kingdom was so close they could see it.

 

[lawrance]

No implication that there was a untrue Israel at all.

Be it tribes etc. as from the time Jacob became Israel, only some people could be worthy of such, as all the individuals of a tribe do not cut it. and that takes away noting from being from the Tribe calling it's self a tribe of Israel, because of the hope of being so.
So we see that the calling is to be an Israel personally.

Jesus says to his disciples go out to the house of Israel, this is because they will know who he is and they were the founders of Christianity not some stupid Goy. The Goy would know noting as they have no foundations at all in God.

A Christians foundations are in 'Israel' and never in anything other. the Goy were grafted in. and that's the end of it. as the Jews and all peoples of the world will come to Jesus as in Jesus is the only way as there is no other way.

The Jews are not coming back to there old ways as a people of God. as that would be Blasphemy and a attack on Christ.

 

[epouraniois]

I don't know, I believe that Israel is a real people, not something inside individuals, just as the land Abrham was told to 'walk' was not some spiritual land, it is real and cannot be spiritualized away.

The Jews have much prophecy to fulfill, see Jer. 32:32 onward, moreover, we read that 'all Israel shall be saved'.

Yes, the goy were graphed in, and this is important. Note that it was not some unusual thing Paul was explaining to them, for in their times it was common to take an olive tree that was not bearing fruit, and graphed in a wild olive branch, and this for the purpose of coaxing the true tree to bear it's fruit. So this would have been well understood and a perfect example, which is why the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write about it in that way. The goy were graphed in, but not so they would bear any fruit of their own, but so that Israel would be made jealous and bear the fruit of repentance. REmember the instructions from the beginning of the Lord's ministry, was to repent and turn, that is to say, re turn to that which they had turned away from. It is the instruction to he Jews from Peter thoroughly in the beginning chapters of Acts he is driving the point forward and home. At tjat time, the goy had no hope of their own, was without God in the world :

AV Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But they did not repent. And it was not until the end of Acts that the salvation of God is sent to the nations. Not until the revelation of the mystery as given to Paul the prisoner do gentiles as such, have a message of their own, a hope of their own, a blessing apart from Israel. So I agree with you, the goy had no knowledge, they were without God in the world, having no hope apart from Israel's preeminent position. Heck, they worshipped every god, a whole pantheon of gods, one for every day, and it wouldn't have matter much if the next god to come along was real or not, they would have worshiped the next one as well, heck, they even had a sign, 'to the unknown god' - lest they leave any gods out.

But Paul strives to reveal to us all that while Israel is not now being used as a blessing, gentiles are blessed anyway. And they are blessed, not in faithful Abraham, but even better, they are blessed in Christ in the heavenly places. Paul says it like this:

AV Eph 1:3 . Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

& AV Eph 3:1 . For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
(IN Acts 28 he was a prisoner in bonds/chains for the hope of Israel - this is different)

AV Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

AV Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

AV Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

he then elaborates elsewhere:

AV Phl 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

AV Phl 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

AV Phl 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

AV Phl 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

Phl 3:9 . And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

AV Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

AV Phl 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Now this is not an ordinary resurrection, it is the out resurrection out from among the dead ones. Paul counts now, after Acts, and after he revelation of the mystery, he counts as dung those things which just before he had counted for gain. Namely, his heritage, being a Hebrew and so forth, but for this high calling, not the kingdom coming tothe earth, but this super heavenly calling he is revealing revealing revealing, Paul says he puts those things behind him and reaches forth to those things ahead of him, which is this new creation he is revealing as the mystery body:

AV Phl 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

AV Phl 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

AV Phl 3:15 . Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So what is Paul talking about? It is none other than that mystery which God had hid in Himself from ages of time and from generations of men, but now is being made known to all nations.

Eph - the fulness
Col is the sister letter - the oneness
Philps - the emptying
2 Tim - further instruction and practical outworking

 

[lawrance]

I think that we should be lead by the Spirit in all things first and foremost as this is the most important thing in the world and nothing other comes close and the reason why i say this is because without the Spirit in Christ we are damned and have no hope at all as anything we do that is not in the Lord is just foolishness. and we just become joke like a dog chasing it's tail. it leads to noting as it bears no fruit.
Back in the beginning of the Bible Gen 1:2 we see the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters ?

God owns the land and he owns all people and everything even Satan but Satan rebels against God. we own noting ! it's all Gods, so all races and all people only abide in Gods land. and if we do wrong we can be vomited out. and history proves it.

 

[mandygirl]

i know its fun to be a sports caster and analyze all the moves of the playas

but if u believe the bible, if you believe every word of it with your heart, and u believe that the Bible means exactly what it says (like I do) then this question is resolved and women shouldnt be preachers

the bible is the word of god, its his guide that he left us to live our life and it would be wrong to ignore it (even the parts that may be hard to take) and people shouldnt say oh, well he didn't really mean that or well that was just part of a story or that doesn't apply anymore

wrong because god is the same today, tommorrow, and the future and he knows what it is like nowdays he knew that then when he wrote the Bible and yes, every word applys now just as much as it did yesterday

just my 2 cents

 

[aspen]

i know its fun to be a sports caster and analyze all the moves of the playas

but if u believe the bible, if you believe every word of it with your heart, and u believe that the Bible means exactly what it says (like I do) then this question is resolved and women shouldnt be preachers

the bible is the word of god, its his guide that he left us to live our life and it would be wrong to ignore it (even the parts that may be hard to take) and people shouldnt say oh, well he didn't really mean that or well that was just part of a story or that doesn't apply anymore

wrong because god is the same today, tommorrow, and the future and he knows what it is like nowdays he knew that then when he wrote the Bible and yes, every word applys now just as much as it did yesterday

just my 2 cents

Cool. Then you have to consider the fact that Mary was the first person to have Christ within her body and two women were the first people to know and witness to men that Christ was risen.

 

[mandygirl]

Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

it does but it seems lots of people want to look over that scripture, or perhaps tear those pages out cause they don't like what God said. dunno h34r:

 

[aspen]

Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

it does but it seems lots of people want to look over that scripture, or perhaps tear those pages out cause they don't like what God said. dunno h34r:

Actually, the Bible only puts limits on women teaching men, which appears to be circumstantial (Paul was addressing a specific church) and the requirements for a deacon and elder. I noticed that you did not comment on my last post.

 

[mandygirl]

Actually, the Bible only puts limits on women teaching men, which appears to be circumstantial (Paul was addressing a specific church) and the requirements for a deacon and elder. I noticed that you did not comment on my last post.

thats cause the bible means exactly what it says and your doing a bunch of interpretation that is just your opinion. i have the word on this one

 

[aspen]

thats cause the bible means exactly what it says and your doing a bunch of interpretation that is just your opinion. i have the word on this one

verse?