Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

[St. SteVen]

*ahem*

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

Titus 3:9

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

As a child, I put two cats in a room together thinking it would make be friendly and stop hissing. I came back later and both cats were still hissing - but from opposite sides of the room further away from one another- and this is what these debates and lack of acceptance towards one another is doing in your churches.

But you are acting worse than the cats, because you have the ability to change and you're still hissing by choice.

I agree that it isn't worth fighting about. Are you saying it should not even be discussed?

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[DuckieLady]

I agree that it isn't worth fighting about. Are you saying it should not even be discussed?

[

Sure, it can be discussed.

But there's a difference between a discussion and a flat out argument. The real question is, where do you draw the line?

The answer to that would be, when you start to notice that it's hurting the other person and your emotions are not being restrained.

"A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."

More encouragement, listening, and blessing. Less hissing.

 

[Lambano]

These discussions inevitably turn into a hissing contest.

 

[DuckieLady]

These discussions inevitably turn into a hissing match.

Very true. God has been working on this with me, too, and more so, teaching me to be aware of my moods, emotions, feelings and how to both discern and control them.

I'm finally starting to understand Corinthians when he wrote:

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."


I never really realized until the past week or so, how much I was in control of what I did not realize I was in control over.

It is mostly being aware and making better decisions than what you want, by relying on God's spirit for discernment and making logical decisions.

 

[Lambano]

I stand with you to defend the right of believers (or unbelievers for that matter) to observe the Sabbath if they so choose.
What I don't support is those who claim that those who choose not to observe Sabbath are violating "God's Holy Day."

[

Yeah, love those "Scofflaw, you're violating God's commandment!" accusations. But using the saw to cut in the other direction, the accusations against those who choose to observe Shabbat run along the lines of, "If you keep Sabbath, you are obligated to keep the whole Torah (Galatians 5:3). You're trying to justify yourself by The Law, thus alienating yourself from Christ and falling away from Grace (Galatians 5:4). You're one of the Judaizers Paul anathematizes in Galatians 1." I start to really dislike both sides.

We're good at doing the Accuser's job. "The accuser": In Hebrew, הַשָּׂטָן, "haSatan".

I'm hoping our favorite Seventh Day Adventist will join us in this discussion.

 

[DuckieLady]

I'm hoping our favorite Seventh Day Adventist will join us in this discussion.

Barney Fife?

 

[Lambano]

15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Getting back to the academic exercise of determining whether the Sabbath commandment is culture-specific (and incidentally justifying Paul's position that observance is optional for Christians), would you argue that the reason behind the commandment in the Deuteronomy account appeals specifically to events in Israel's history? Thus, the requirement would be specific to Israel?

Then switching sides, what would be your counter-argument?

 

[Lambano]

Barney Fife?

Barney has earned my respect (and I think St. Steven's too.

 

[St. SteVen]

Barney Fife?

He's my favorite, for sure.
But I wasn't trying to drag him into this.
We have a had a pretty complete back and forth in the past.
For me, maintaining the relationship is more important than winning the debate.

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[St. SteVen]

St. Steven quoting Deuteronomy 5:15 said:
15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Getting back to the academic exercise of determining whether the Sabbath commandment is culture-specific (and incidentally justifying Paul's position that observance is optional for Christians), would you argue that the reason behind the commandment in the Deuteronomy account appeals specifically to events in Israel's history? Thus, the requirement would be specific to Israel?

The short answer is "Yes."
The reason behind the commandment in the Deuteronomy account appeals specifically to events in Israel's history.
Thus, the requirement would be specific to Israel. (alone)

We tend to look at it as an individual's choice to observe (or not), but originally it was the whole community.
Guests staying with the community were required to observe as well. Even their animals and servants.
And then there is the... "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt..." bit.
They remember the Sabbath but forget that bit.

Deuteronomy 5:14-15 NIV
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work,
neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox,
your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns,
so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.
15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God
brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm.
Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Then switching sides, what would be your counter-argument?

Point back to the creation week. God rested on the seventh day and made it holy.
Not bad advice actually. But... it comes with baggage.



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[Wick Stick]

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

No. The Ten Commandments certainly were given to Israel, but most of them were things that other nations were already observing.

By the time Moses lived, the Sabbath had been in common use by Semitic and Canaanite peoples for about 1,000 years. It's probably worth mentioning that Egypt was neither a Semitic nor Canaanite people, and thus did not use the 7-day week. (They had a 10-day week)

Essentially, the Sabbath commandment told Israel to behave like their ancestors, and not like the Egyptians.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

No. The Ten Commandments certainly were given to Israel, but most of them were things that other nations were already observing.

My point is that the Ten Commandments were a specific set given (by God through Moses) to the Israelites alone.
According to the biblical record.

What you are saying about a day of rest in previous cultures is interesting.
Did it have religious significance?

[

 

[Wick Stick]

St. SteVen said:
Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

My point is that the Ten Commandments were a specific set given (by God through Moses) to the Israelites alone.
According to the biblical record.

What you are saying about a day of rest in previous cultures is interesting.
Did it have religious significance?

[

It worked the same there as it did in Israel - all holy days are Sabbaths, but not all Sabbaths are holy days.

What I mean is... the point of a Sabbath in every culture (including Moses' Israel) is to give workers a rest day. Whenever you want to have some sort of religious event or celebration, you need to give those workers a day off, so it necessarily becomes a Sabbath. All holy days are Sabbaths... even if they fall on a Tuesday.

On the other hand, having a regular once-a-week day-off-work isn't necessarily a call for an assembly or worship. It's a call for rest. I am fond of critiquing modern church practices by pointing out that "services" seem to be the opposite of "rest."

 

[St. SteVen]

I am fond of critiquing modern church practices by pointing out that "services" seem to be the opposite of "rest."

So true. Sunday is a BUSY day. (or can be)

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[quietthinker]

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?​

Does the inclusion of not to commit adultery mean that Marriage was for Israel alone?

 

[Wick Stick]

Does the inclusion of not to commit adultery mean that Marriage was for Israel alone?​

It's a weird commandment.

The original Hebrew seems to prohibit miscegenation - the mixing of races between Israelites and non-Israelites. When it was translated into Greek, they used a word that makes the commandment appears to prohibit prostitution. And in English, it appears to prohibit any sex outside of marriage.

I sort of suspect that the appropriate application of the commandment today is a prohibition on marrying outside the faith - "unequally yoked."

Of course, that doesn't make adultery ok. Sexual immorality is prohibited in about 1000 other places in the Bible.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Can you support your views?
I gave scripture to support mine.

- The TCs (covenant) were given to Israel alone.
- The Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone.
- The Sabbath is to observed by Israel because God led them out of Egypt.
- The Sabbath is a whole community observance.

[

The ten commandments,the moral laws, were for Israel alone?

Christians can worship other gods ,steal,commit adultery,murder,lie, disrespect their parents, and so forth.

Awesome!

 

[Lambano]

nor any foreigner residing in your towns,

Kinda cool that you noticed that the commandment applies to non-Jews.

so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.

Don't you hate it when we turn what's supposed to be blessing into a cradle-to-the-grave fear of violating a commandment and inciting the wrath of God?

 

[Lambano]

Then switching sides, what would be your counter-argument?

Point back to the creation week. God rested on the seventh day and made it holy.
Not bad advice actually. But... it comes with baggage

Instead of pointing back to the Creation story as justification, you could spiritualize it and say we were all slaves to sin, so Deuteronomy does point to events in our own personal history.

But, I'm not very spiritual.

Or, you could argue that historically, Christianity had a special appeal to slaves in the first-century Greco-Roman world. And it wasn't all that long ago in this country when the ancestors of people with skin a few shades darker than mine were kept as slaves by people identifying as Christians. (Not that anybody here wants to be reminded of that.)

 

[Lambano]

For me, maintaining the relationship is more important than winning the debate.

I don't have so many friends that I can afford to throw one away either.