Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

[Lambano]

Not bad advice actually. But... it comes with baggage.

Or, if you still have one of those God cards in your wallet, you could use it and say that Paul said in the Bible that Sabbath observance was optional for Christians, so that settles it.

(But I know it would bug the hell out of you to play the God Card.)

 

[St. SteVen]

It's a weird commandment.

The original Hebrew seems to prohibit miscegenation - the mixing of races between Israelites and non-Israelites. When it was translated into Greek, they used a word that makes the commandment appears to prohibit prostitution. And in English, it appears to prohibit any sex outside of marriage.

I sort of suspect that the appropriate application of the commandment today is a prohibition on marrying outside the faith - "unequally yoked."

Of course, that doesn't make adultery ok. Sexual immorality is prohibited in about 1000 other places in the Bible.

There were cultural aspects as well. Women were considered property.
The man of one wife requirement for elders in the church indicates that polygamy was common.
Also common was for a man to have a wife and female servants (slaves) as concubines.
Prostitution was common for those unable to support female servants in the home.

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[St. SteVen]

I don't have so many friends that I can afford to throw one away either.

Yes. One should be nice to their friends, both of them.

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[St. SteVen]

Instead of pointing back to the Creation story as justification, you could spiritualize it and say we were all slaves to sin, so Deuteronomy does point to events in our own personal history.

This reminds me of what may be an important point.
When we sin, we feel conviction regarding it.

I have never felt any conviction concerning a day of rest/worship.
But I know there could be conditioning behind this for either side.
Those brought into a Sabbath-keeping church are shamed for their previous behavior.

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[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen quoting Deuteronomy 5:15 said:
nor any foreigner residing in your towns,

Kinda cool that you noticed that the commandment applies to non-Jews.

More importantly, it shows that Sabbath adherence is a community decision, not an individual decision.
Those in leadership decided for the whole community. Same is true today in Israel.
Visitors are under the community law.

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[St. SteVen]

The ten commandments,the moral laws, were for Israel alone?

Christians can worship other gods ,steal,commit adultery,murder,lie, disrespect their parents, and so forth.

Awesome!

From my perspective, the moral law is covered under God's law of human conscience,
which came before the law given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses.

The inclusion of the Sabbath commandment shows that this SET of commandments was for the Israelites alone.
Remove the Sabbath commandment and you basically have God's law of human conscience.

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[St. SteVen]

(But I know it would bug the hell out of you to play the God Card.)

Thanks for posting that.
Good to see that I'm not alone in the observation.

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[Lambano]

St. SteVen quoting Deuteronomy 5:15 said:
nor any foreigner residing in your towns,

More importantly, it shows that Sabbath adherence is a community decision, not an individual decision.
Those in leadership decided for the whole community. Same is true today in Israel.
Visitors are under the community law.

[

New Yorkers are still required to comply with local traffic laws, though you wouldn't know it from observing their driving behavior.

 

[Lambano]

This reminds me of what may be an important point.
When we sin, we feel conviction regarding it.

I have never felt any conviction concerning a day of rest/worship.
But I know there could be conditioning behind this for either side.
Those brought into a Sabbath-keeping church are shamed for their previous behavior.

[

That just means you're a sociopath.

 

[Lambano]

From my perspective, the moral law is covered under God's law of human conscience,
which came before the law given by God to the Israelites alone through Moses.

No, conscience is neither universal nor completely inborn or natural, and this is important.

The human conscience is a psychological construct that is (mostly?) built through childhood socialization processes. It starts when parents, extended family, and community teach a child what they consider right and what they consider wrong. And shame is one of the biggest hammers in the toolbox. We have been taught what to feel guilty about and what to be ashamed of.

Back in the 50s and 60s, the US started experimenting with alternative ways of raising children - and we ended up with a nation of sociopaths.

 

[Lambano]

No, conscience is neither universal nor completely inborn or natural, and this is important.

My granddaughter is a Middle School teacher in Texas. "Total Depravity" isn't just a Reformed theological abstraction; it's something she sees every day.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, conscience is neither universal nor completely inborn or natural, and this is important.

The human conscience is a psychological construct that is (mostly?) built through childhood socialization processes. It starts when parents, extended family, and community teach a child what they consider right and what they consider wrong. And shame is one of the biggest hammers in the toolbox. We have been taught what to feel guilty about and what to be ashamed of.

Back in the 50s and 60s, the US started experimenting with alternative ways of raising children - and we ended up with nation of sociopaths.

What happened when A&E ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Was the shame they experienced a psychological construct built through a childhood socialization processes?

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[Lambano]

Was the shame they experienced a psychological construct built through a childhood socialization processes?

Where is that thread you started about taking the Eden story literally?

 

[Lambano]

What happened when A&E ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Was the shame they experienced a psychological construct built through a childhood socialization processes?

[

Why doesn't everybody feel ashamed of the same things?

Do you feel ashamed when you're naked in a beautiful garden with the woman you love? (Like Adam?)

 

[Lambano]

Do you feel ashamed when you're naked in a beautiful garden with the woman you love?

Yeah, we heard about last Tuesday!

 

[Josho]

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given?

Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV
It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.


- To whom was the Sabbath commandment given?

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,
so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us,
so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20 NIV
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us.
Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”

--- MANNA and SABBATH ---

Exodus 16:21-23 NIV
Each morning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.
22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers[a] for each person—
and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses.
23 He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded:
‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord.
So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil.
Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’”

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We still need rest, if we don't rest we just get burnt out, taking a Sabbath each week is important for our well-being.

 

[St. SteVen]

Where is that thread you started about taking the Eden story literally?

Whether the story was historically accurate or not, it provides some principles about where the knowledge of good and evil originated.

Why doesn't everybody feel ashamed of the same things?

I'm guessing there is mostly commonality there.
What I would call God's law of human conscience.

I do agree that is possible to gain shame from another source as well.
But I think that builds on the God-given human conscience already present.
And conscience can be seared as well.

Do you feel ashamed when you're naked in a beautiful garden with the woman you love? (Like Adam?)

Only if we got caught, I suppose. - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

We still need rest, if we don't rest we just get burnt out, taking a Sabbath each week is important for our well-being.

Can't you rest without making it a religious thing? I sleep every day. (nap too)

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[Lambano]

I'm guessing there is mostly commonality there.
What I would call God's law of human conscience.

I'm approaching it from the standpoint of, "What things are all humans universally ashamed of?" Certainly not nakedness.

 

[Josho]

Can't you rest without making it a religious thing? I sleep every day. (nap too)

[

Yes you can

I have personally found having a rest on a Saturday though to be more refreshing hehehe.