Does the Lord take us to heaven and we reign with Him

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Hobie

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Or do look around for a Christ that has come in the desert or in the Middle East and walks around on earth for a 1000 years? It used to be that all Christians believed that Christ would come to take them to heaven, but now it seems a false doctrine of having someone that claims to be Christ will appear and maybe go to Jerusalem and say the 'kingdom' is set up for the next 1000 years of the Millennium, and say everyone must come and 'worship him'.

So what is the truth on this from the word of God and why does it matter especially to Gods people. Whether one is pre-trib rapture, or mid-trib, or post-trib the question of the Millennium and what happens at it still has to be answered. What is the Millennium and where are Christ and the saints during the Millennium?

There are two possible answers for "Where are the saints and Christ during the Millennium?"

Christ is in heaven after having taken the saints to heaven at the rapture and second coming. So both Christ and the saints are in heaven for that time and the wicked are all dead, (with Satan and his angels confined to Earth and no one to tempt).

Or Christ and the saints are on Earth during that time and Christ holds the wicked that are there also under some restraints for 1000 years.

If the saints are not taken to heaven at the second coming, then it opens the door to a "world-wide fake" to happen where Satan presents a pre-emptive 'coming' to have everyone be shocked and surprised after that "staged" or Satan can simple come and go to Jerusalem and claim they are in 'glorified' bodies or state where sin no longer affects them.

So what does the Bible say of the true coming of Christ. It was Christ Himself that warned that false Messiahs or false Christs would stake their claims prior to the return of Jesus:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew. 24:24

Numerous additional signs of the imminent return of Christ are given in the Scriptures which testify that the time is near. These include:

An increase in knowledge - Daniel 12:4

An increase in demonic activity (Spiritulism, Satanism, etc..)- Rev 16:13,14, 1 Timothy 4:1-7

An increase in lawlessness - 2 Timothy 3:1-7

Departure from the faith - 2 Timothy 4:3,4

Rise of False teachings (evolution) - 2 Peter 3:3-7

Increase in traffic (modern transport) - Nahum 2:4

Of all these signs, the one with the greatest finality is:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14

We are admonished to study the signs and to pay attention. (Matthew 24:32-35) However, we are not to conclude that we can discern the day or the hour of His coming from these events. (Matthew 24:36). Moreover, if we study the nature of the coming of Christ and the purpose of His coming, then no one need be deceived. Yet, strange as it may seem, not a single mainline Christian church teaches the Biblical coming of Christ today. Most churches, if they preach about the second coming at all, preach a coming of Christ that will bring peace to the nations and wander about the earth that is no different especially when it comes to sin, but the Bible teaches a destruction of nations who mourn at His coming. Let us carefully examine the evidence we are given of how Christ will return:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

In the Clouds Together With His Angels:

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him as can be seen in Hebrew parallelism.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels; the Lord is among them, as is Sinai, in the holy place. Psalm 68:17

...who maketh the clouds his chariots; who walketh upon the wings of the wind. Psalm 104:3

Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.Matthew 25:31

The glory of Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine. He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

The Second Coming Will be Universally Visible:

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Christ warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Second Coming Will be Audible:

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

The Lord Will Not Come Down to the Earth, But Will Await the Redeemed in the Sky:

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

The Saints will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This is not a secret rapture as some believe.

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

So if we study and see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur, Satan will not be able to fool us not matter what he tries, and we will be prepared for Christ.
 

Randy Kluth

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Or do look around for a Christ that has come in the desert or in the Middle East and walks around on earth for a 1000 years? It used to be that all Christians believed that Christ would come to take them to heaven, but now it seems a false doctrine of having someone that claims to be Christ will appear and maybe go to Jerusalem and say the 'kingdom' is set up for the next 1000 years of the Millennium, and say everyone must come and 'worship him'.

So what is the truth on this from the word of God and why does it matter especially to Gods people. Whether one is pre-trib rapture, or mid-trib, or post-trib the question of the Millennium and what happens at it still has to be answered. What is the Millennium and where are Christ and the saints during the Millennium?
If you believe in the Millennium, I should think that it represents the period of time when the earth is actually able to bring to final fulfillment all that God has promised on this fallen earth. Nations can be godly, Christian nations. They just need the Devil removed.

So what happens to glorified, resurrected Christians in the next age? Those who believe in a Millennial reign of the saints likely believe that the saints will rule with Christ during this period of time, condemning Satan for his involvement in human affairs. Angles have served to prevent sinful men from disrupting God's holiness, and in the resurrection the saints may perform the same job.

I don't know how the glorified saints will rule over the earth during the Millennium, whether from heaven, or invisibly on the earth. I just don't know. But I do believe what God has promised Israel--a final deliverance, will take place, and many nations promised to Abraham will succeed in being solid Christian nations.

We are told to watch out for fake Kingdom movements in the present age, prior to Christ's return from heaven. Until Antichrist is defeated and Satan bound, no movement on earth can claim to be "God's Kingdom," with powers that permanently set aside the opposition of the enemy. We will know the true Christ when he comes because it will be from heaven in the context of Armageddon--likely a nuclear world war.
 

Bob Estey

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Or do look around for a Christ that has come in the desert or in the Middle East and walks around on earth for a 1000 years? It used to be that all Christians believed that Christ would come to take them to heaven, but now it seems a false doctrine of having someone that claims to be Christ will appear and maybe go to Jerusalem and say the 'kingdom' is set up for the next 1000 years of the Millennium, and say everyone must come and 'worship him'.

So what is the truth on this from the word of God and why does it matter especially to Gods people. Whether one is pre-trib rapture, or mid-trib, or post-trib the question of the Millennium and what happens at it still has to be answered. What is the Millennium and where are Christ and the saints during the Millennium?

There are two possible answers for "Where are the saints and Christ during the Millennium?"

Christ is in heaven after having taken the saints to heaven at the rapture and second coming. So both Christ and the saints are in heaven for that time and the wicked are all dead, (with Satan and his angels confined to Earth and no one to tempt).

Or Christ and the saints are on Earth during that time and Christ holds the wicked that are there also under some restraints for 1000 years.

If the saints are not taken to heaven at the second coming, then it opens the door to a "world-wide fake" to happen where Satan presents a pre-emptive 'coming' to have everyone be shocked and surprised after that "staged" or Satan can simple come and go to Jerusalem and claim they are in 'glorified' bodies or state where sin no longer affects them.

So what does the Bible say of the true coming of Christ. It was Christ Himself that warned that false Messiahs or false Christs would stake their claims prior to the return of Jesus:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew. 24:24

Numerous additional signs of the imminent return of Christ are given in the Scriptures which testify that the time is near. These include:

An increase in knowledge - Daniel 12:4

An increase in demonic activity (Spiritulism, Satanism, etc..)- Rev 16:13,14, 1 Timothy 4:1-7

An increase in lawlessness - 2 Timothy 3:1-7

Departure from the faith - 2 Timothy 4:3,4

Rise of False teachings (evolution) - 2 Peter 3:3-7

Increase in traffic (modern transport) - Nahum 2:4

Of all these signs, the one with the greatest finality is:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14

We are admonished to study the signs and to pay attention. (Matthew 24:32-35) However, we are not to conclude that we can discern the day or the hour of His coming from these events. (Matthew 24:36). Moreover, if we study the nature of the coming of Christ and the purpose of His coming, then no one need be deceived. Yet, strange as it may seem, not a single mainline Christian church teaches the Biblical coming of Christ today. Most churches, if they preach about the second coming at all, preach a coming of Christ that will bring peace to the nations and wander about the earth that is no different especially when it comes to sin, but the Bible teaches a destruction of nations who mourn at His coming. Let us carefully examine the evidence we are given of how Christ will return:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

In the Clouds Together With His Angels:

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him as can be seen in Hebrew parallelism.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels; the Lord is among them, as is Sinai, in the holy place. Psalm 68:17

...who maketh the clouds his chariots; who walketh upon the wings of the wind. Psalm 104:3

Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.Matthew 25:31

The glory of Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine. He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

The Second Coming Will be Universally Visible:

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Christ warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Second Coming Will be Audible:

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

The Lord Will Not Come Down to the Earth, But Will Await the Redeemed in the Sky:

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

The Saints will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This is not a secret rapture as some believe.

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

So if we study and see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur, Satan will not be able to fool us not matter what he tries, and we will be prepared for Christ.
We are to be a humble people. The desire to "reign over" others seems unhealthy to me.
 
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quietthinker

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We are to be a humble people. The desire to "reign over" others seems unhealthy to me.
We are to be a humble people. The desire to "reign over" others seems unhealthy to me.
yeah...I'm certain 'reigning' has to do with service.
Luke 12:37 '....I tell you the truth, he himself will seat them, put on an apron, and serve them as they sit and eat!'

God creates so he can love and serve his creatures.

Do parents have children so they can one day take out the garbage and clean the car etc? Maybe in our dysfunctional world some will, yet God is not dysfunctional. Heaven is a place of service to each other. That's what makes it Heaven.
 

strepho

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Rapture is false doctrine, Ezekiel chapter 13 to document.
Psalm chapter 49:19 . Majority will be in sheol. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. Most people have spirit of stupor.
You need holy spirit to guide you to kingdom of God, first Corinthians chapter 2 to document.
James chapter 1 is the answer. Knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Some people are too lazy to study the bible.
Or they listen to misguided preachers.
Bottom line. Many people have spirit of stupor. Without holy spirit, they walk in darkness.
Only Jesus can give spirtual sight.
First Corinthians chapter 2 to document.
 

MatthewG

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We are to be a humble people. The desire to "reign over" others seems unhealthy to me.

This reminds me of Paul.

2 Corinthians 1:24
But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together with you so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm.

While Paul and the Apostles of that day age where in Charge of the bride of christ, he still desired for freedom and liberty to be sought by people.

He said this later on to the people at Corinthains in the same letter.

3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (Speaking of the Spirit of christ.)

He wrote to the Galatians,

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God,who loved me and gave himself for me.