They were baptized into Christ and the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit when believed, before water baptized
DOES WATER BAPTISM FORGIVE SINS?
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
nope. John baptized for the coming kingdom,
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Baptism is a work.
Romans 10:9-12
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
This is the formula for salvation and no Baptism is mentioned.
JOhn 3:
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
No Baptism.
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
This is the baptism that saves- the Holy Spirit. that comes the moment we believe.
The pentitent thief was not baptized.
1 Cor. 1:
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
If water baptism is essential for salvation, why did Paul say he was not sent to baptize?
So I take it you totally reject deathbed conversions as they cannot be baptized.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well without going in to teh lengthy answer, let me try to do so concisely.
1. One cannot make doctrine from the book of Acts. It is a historical book. It may apply doctrines, but not make doctrine.
2. For the Jews of the day- they had a difference for they were the OT covenant people and now had to transfer to the Church.
3. You do not see this command in any of the Pauline letters to the Gentiles.
4. Peter in writing to Jewish believers said:
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
When one does a word study of the language and culture of the day, shows water baptism does not save!
Water Baptism was only performed on people who were already saved! You will not find one passage that shows one being baptized, then being saved.
Salvation is by grace alone through faith! In the death and resurrection of Jesus!
John's baptism was not into Christ which is why the Ephesians were re-baptized in Acts 19
And Jesus was alive when he forgave the thief on the cross meaning the NT was not yet in effect, so, the thief was forgiven as were others during Jesus' earthly ministry. Read Hebrews 9:16-17. NT began after Jesus death as did the requirement for baptism into Christ
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
And there is no such thing as death bed confession/conversion as it would negate scripture that says otherwise and imposes orher requirements such as baptism into Christ.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So to you (and not Scripture) if someone is dying in a hospital bed and wants to receive Christ, your answer is "screw you" you can't beimmersed in water so you must go to the lake of fire. I am gladGod is far more gracious and merciful than you.
Its not your way, your words, or my way or words; it's God's way and his word. What you're suggesting is contrary to all that's written and word nullify so many scriptures which would mean God's word is not true or trustworthy and also suggests belief only is enough, which it clearly isn't. And God is not stupid and knows the hearts of men. Do you think he can be fooled by someone whose lived a life of total denial of God, who in the final moments of his life out of fear says he now accepts God? Believe that if you like, but if you do you certainly don't understand the scriptures at all.
Last edited:
So many soldiers and others in famines and natural disasters should never be given the gospel then while dying, nor people on hospital beds
That's NOT what the scriptures clearly teach or what is written in black and white.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Wrong I understand the Scriptures very well after 51 years of study!
Now you are putting thoughts in gods mind. Especially in light of thesew facts:
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I am a Baptist and knows that Baptism comes after one is saved.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
According to JDT, if there is no water deep enough to immerse a person, don't tell them Jesus loves them! Won't do any good according to him. That is a tragic false teaching that he has been deceived by.
It is not biblical and comes from a very wrong hermeneutical and exegetical understanding of Scripture (which pretty much means understanding the bible as written in its culture, history, language style and context), or how we understand every other piece of written material.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well when we both stand before Almighty God we will find out who learned and who was deceived. I cannot wish you well in your miniwtry for you are deceived and are deceiving others.
Yes, I'm deceived because I believe the scriptures verbatim, im so thankful to God for that!
Mk16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Accept that to reject many more that show no work is necessary for Baptism. And you forget teh words of John the Baptist about the Baptism Jesus requires of us.
Luke 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
I say this in love. But you do what so many shallow readers of SCripture do. Look at a verse and toss other verses that define that one verse out!
Yes, you apparently learned to cherry pick scriptures very well as a baptist ignoring the fact that in doing so you pit scripture against scripture. Hahaha, baptist! They taught you well!
Do you belive Jesus Himself when he stated thast the ONLY work required was to believe in God the father, and the ONE that He sent now to earth?
