Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The funny fact is I've never met someone who said they were a foolish virgin. All thought they were the wise ones.
Don’t Be Like The Five Foolish Virgins = Matthew 25;1-5
- Thread starter Miz KJV Only
- Start date
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yeah the lost who think they are saved finally realized they are lost when they are not admitted in.
Dear Ronald Nolette,
The Five Foolish Virgins had oil in their lamps when they first went out to meet the Bridegroom. This oil (Holy Spirit as you said) is the Early Rain (Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14) a person receives when they are called out from the world and when they enter the church. Only the Elect are given the extra oil in flasks so that that don't have to "turn back". This extra oil in flasks represents the Latter Rain.
A believer's supposed "free will" plays no part in why the Five Foolish Virgins have to turn back. They simply were not chosen and were not given the Latter Rain by Christ.
The Marriage to the Lamb occurs after an Elect believer is given the Latter Rain and is saved. The marriage ceremony happens within the lifetime of each Elect believer. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (typed by the Lord's Supper, communion) follows the ceremony because the new bride (child of God) will be given spiritual vision (eyes that can see). The supper takes place when Christ feeds His bride the truth of His Word (milk, bread, meat and new wine). A carnally minded believer (Early Rain only) cannot consume this supper because they are spiritually blind.
Joe
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Quoting the Bible is very Good.
Knowing the the WORD is Best.
i said to you that JESUS is the House of God
Do you know where the Scripture declares this?
InfamousBerean
New Member
While got questions supports their own theology (don't we all), let us consider the co text of the statement in revelation 19.I didn't claim it. Its from the 1st century wedding ceremony. John wrote it here:
Revelation 19:7-9 -
Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’
Instead of me explaining it to you, read it here:
What is the marriage supper of the Lamb? | GotQuestions.org
What is the marriage supper of the Lamb? Who is the wife of the Lamb and who are the guests at the marriage supper?www.gotquestions.org
Verse 2 states God has judged the great prostitute. God has avenged the blood of His servants spilt by the prostitute.
Verse 7 states the Bride has made herself ready being bright and pure through the righteous deeds of the (tribulation) Saints.
Verse 11-16 states Heaven is opened and Jesus is revealed with His army to tread the winepress.
Verse 17-21 describes the great supper of God spoken of in Matthew 24:28 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.
-The original text had no chapter breaks-
Chapter 20, verse 1-3 states Satan is thrown into the pit for a thousand years.
Verse 4 describes the First, not second or first part b, first resurrection takes place which specifically mentions the (tribulation) Saints.
Verse 5 states the remaining dead do not come to life until after the 1,000 years and states that this resurrection is the First resurrection.
Verse 6 iterates the blessings attached to the First resurrection.
This wedding feast seems to be directly connected to the coming of Christ after the Tribulation and to the resurrection of the dead immediately after the tribulation.
There are good and right things people write concerning the Bible, and there are wrong things written to support one's own ideas. It is for us to study, examine, reason, and consider through discernment what is right and true and good by the power of the Holy Spirit!
Maranatha
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
According to the text of the story, the wedding started out to as a private
affair, but later became open to the public, i.e. total strangers were welcome
to attend who didn't have to be the king's friends nor even his son's friends;
it was very open. We could say it was open to the whole world regardless of
age, race, gender, and/or religious preferences. That king was very
determined to find people to help his son celebrate and it was to the point
where he didn't care who they were.
But there was a bit of a caveat. The whole world was invited to come; but
only those appropriately dressed were allowed inside.
There are establishments that require male patrons to wear a coat and tie,
and should any show up without them, some places maintain a closet of
things that men can borrow for the evening: free of charge; it's on the
house. Now, seeing as how the king instructed his servants to invite
everyone they encountered regardless of social status and/or income level,
then he likely anticipated some folks showing up who couldn't afford to
clothe themselves properly.
This suggests to me that the errant guest refused the doorman's offer to
loan underprivileged guests appropriate garments, viz: the man was a
wedding crasher because he deliberately attempted to circumvent the dress
code and that is very probably why he was speechless when confronted, i.e.
the man had no excuse.
I think this parable is an ideal companion to Isa 49:6 which says:
"And now The Lord speaks . . . He says: You will do more than restore the
people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will
bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."
The tragedy of the parable is that there will be a number of Gentiles come
to the event thinking they can circumvent the dress code and get away with
it because the host is such a generous guy.
Well; it's true the groom's father is generous: that much the crasher got
right; but the father was generous only to point. It was a big mistake on the
crasher's part to assume the groom's father would be flexible about the
dress code.
_
According to the text of the story, the wedding started out to as a private
affair, but later became open to the public, i.e. total strangers were welcome
to attend who didn't have to be the king's friends nor even his son's friends;
it was very open. We could say it was open to the whole world regardless of
age, race, gender, and/or religious preferences. That king was very
determined to find people to help his son celebrate and it was to the point
where he didn't care who they were.
But there was a bit of a caveat. The whole world was invited to come; but
only those appropriately dressed were allowed inside.
There are establishments that require male patrons to wear a coat and tie,
and should any show up without them, some places maintain a closet of
things that men can borrow for the evening: free of charge; it's on the
house. Now, seeing as how the king instructed his servants to invite
everyone they encountered regardless of social status and/or income level,
then he likely anticipated some folks showing up who couldn't afford to
clothe themselves properly.
This suggests to me that the errant guest refused the doorman's offer to
loan underprivileged guests appropriate garments, viz: the man was a
wedding crasher because he deliberately attempted to circumvent the dress
code and that is very probably why he was speechless when confronted, i.e.
the man had no excuse.
I think this parable is an ideal companion to Isa 49:6 which says:
"And now The Lord speaks . . . He says: You will do more than restore the
people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will
bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."
The tragedy of the parable is that there will be a number of Gentiles come
to the event thinking they can circumvent the dress code and get away with
it because the host is such a generous guy.
Well; it's true the groom's father is generous: that much the crasher got
right; but the father was generous only to point. It was a big mistake on the
crasher's part to assume the groom's father would be flexible about the
dress code.
_
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
You do realize all of chapter 19 in Revelations is written after the first rapture, don't you?
The 1st century wedding depicts a rapture. That's historical and prophetical.
Hello Rocker,
Some suggest perhaps John had done wrote half of the Revelation before the other half, but that is conjecture.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I do not believe in free will except in a believers life.
Well I accept Scripture as written and it says the foolish took their lamps but no oil. Saying they had oil is an assumption on the Scriptures.
When someone enters the body of Christ (the church) they were and are the elect therefore eternally secure.
Right now the church is the espoused to Jesus. Teh marriage takes place in heaven in REv. 19 as is written in the Scriptures.
Dear Ronald Nolette,
No one but God has a free will, not even a believer:
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
As for your comments on the Foolish Virgins not having any oil in their lamps when they first go out to wait for the Bridegroom, you are omitting these verses:
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 “And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
All the lamps have been burning while the Ten Virgins waited for the Bridegroom. Because of such, all the lamps are low on oil. This truth matches to what is taught about Early Rain which all called out believers (all Ten Virgins) are given when they are "called out". The Early Rain is only an "earnest amount" (Eph 1:13-14). It is not given in enough measure so that a Virgin can wait the full amount of time for the Bridegroom to return. To be able to meet the Bridegroom, a believer must also have the extra oil that the Latter Rain gives them. Those who are given the extra oil are the "few".
Also, you are forgetting that the lamp and the light it gives off represents the Law which will lead a person to Christ:
Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
After a person is called out from the world, they become espoused to Christ. For that reason, they will take their lamp and go out to wait for the return of the Bridegroom. The lamp must first have oil in it or they would not go out to meet Christ.
You said:
When someone enters the body of Christ (the church) they were and are the elect therefore eternally secure.
Not true.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Most of mankind is not called out from the world, however, "many" are. And from those same "many", only a few have been chosen for salvation in this age.
The "many" (the Ten Virgins) who are called out will all fall away and lose their salvation. All Ten Virgins will "slumber and sleep" in the dark. Then at midnight (the darkest part of a person's spiritual blindness), the call will go out that the Bridegroom is returning. Only the "few" (the Wise Virgins) who were given the extra flask of oil will be able to meet the Christ.
This matches exactly with what James says:
Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
The Early Rain is the original oil in the lamp which causes a "virgin" to go out to meet the Bridegroom. The extra flask of oil is the Latter Rain. It takes both the Early and Latter Rain to be saved. And that salvation occurs when the Bridegroom returns for His bride.
Christ's return to His Elect is a reoccurring event throughout this age. It is not a one-time event as "many" understand it to be:
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to COME; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to COME, the Almighty.
You said:
Right now the church is the espoused to Jesus. Teh marriage takes place in heaven in REv. 19 as is written in the Scriptures.
You are right, the church is espoused to Christ and is waiting for His return. However, only the "few" (the Wise Virgins) will be given the extra oil (Latter Rain) so that they can continue out to meet the Lord when His return is announced (call of Elijah). This is the Elect's moment of salvation.
Revelation chapter 19 begins its teaching after the Lord has returned to an Elect believer for the Marriage ceremony and the Marriage Supper. These salvation events are immediately followed by the Day of the Lord (the Elect's judgment). But since the believer is "born again" as a child of God PRIOR to their judgment falling, the newly born child of God will reign over their own judgment. Their beast and false prophet will be "taken" (Rev 19:20, Mat 24:40) from within them and will be judged separately from the child of God. In this way, the Elect do not experience wrath during their time of judgment.
Joe
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Prior to my conversion back in Feb 1968, I had absolutely no interest in the
Bible whatsoever; whereas soon afterwards I became obsessed with it. So as
a result I've been an on-going student of the Bible for 55+ years via Sunday
schools, sermons, lectures, special classes, radio, books written by Christian
authors, computer software, and YouTube videos; which I suspect is all due to
Phil 2:13.
BTW: Personally I think it's a colossal mistake to Christianize the parable of
the ten maidens and their lamps.
_
Prior to my conversion back in Feb 1968, I had absolutely no interest in the
Bible whatsoever; whereas soon afterwards I became obsessed with it. So as
a result I've been an on-going student of the Bible for 55+ years via Sunday
schools, sermons, lectures, special classes, radio, books written by Christian
authors, computer software, and YouTube videos; which I suspect is all due to
Phil 2:13.
BTW: Personally I think it's a colossal mistake to Christianize the parable of
the ten maidens and their lamps.
_
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Believers have free will restores to them. Only a believer can choose to obey or disobey god.
You misunderstand, the earnest is a downpayment. It is a pledge that god will fulfill His promise. And we are given all teh Holy spirit, not just a "brak" or "wing" and more later on.
Anyone who is saved is saved forever.
This early and latter rain, if you are referring to what Pentecostals say is heresy.
This is an error. The instant one trusts in the death and physical resurrection for their sin debt, they are saved! they are immediately baptized by and in the spirit and placed in the body of Christ- that is forever.
James is using early and latter rain as a metaphor for patience, not some doctrine that we have to get early and latter rain.
You seem to be implying that some believers can lose their salvation. If that is what you are implying- you are very very wrong according to Scripture.
Dear Webers_Home,
The truth of the God's Word (includes the parables) is written only for the Elect and only then after they have been converted and given "eyes that can see". For all other believers, it is written so that they will not understand it. As a result, they will "fall backward and be broken".
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Do you believe this truth about God's Word?
Joe
Dear Ronald Nolette,
I have discussed much of this truth with you before and you were not able to receive it so I won't try again.
I will respond to one point you made which was:
You seem to be implying that some believers can lose their salvation. If that is what you are implying- you are very very wrong according to Scripture.
These verses below contradict your belief:
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
1John 5:6 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
The only way a believer can lose their salvation is to mix "works" with faith. This is what it is meant to "fall away".
Joe
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You do not even understand this passage and why it was written. It has nothing to do with salvation at all.
Oce saved always saved. Jesus promised we would never be cast out, nor would He ever leave or forsake us.
also we are already seated in heavenly places and our lives are hid with Christ in god. He also said we would never perish! Now I may not be a rocket scientist but last I saw- never menas never!
Dear Ronald Nolette,
You are referring to verses which apply to a believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains. Both Rains are required to be "converted" and eternally saved.
Believers in the church who have only been given the Early Rain (called out believers) will remain spiritually blind. Paul typed this truth by his blindness when he received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. Because a new believer will remain spiritually blind, they will fall for Satan's deceptions which he teaches in his "another gospel". This false gospel mixes works with faith and teaches a doctrine of free will which elevates the believer to be equal with God. When a believer accepts Satan's false gospel, they will become "worse than the first"; a Man of Sin.
Christ teaches this truth here:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.
Joe
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
Dear Weber_Home,
Yes, Phil 2:13 is true for everyone. Mankind does not have a free will. Only God the Father has a free will - and from His free will ability, He directs and controls all things to be in accordance with His will.
I became a Christian from my youth and studied scripture a great deal in my 20's and 30's. But after I was converted, I found that all I thought was "truth" was nothing more than "dung". After my conversion, I quickly gave up all my possessions (carnal understanding of the truth) so that I could receive the "excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord":
Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And just as the rich young man was told to give up all His "possessions", we, too, must give up all that we have so that we can have treasure in heaven.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
The word "possessions" is a spiritual symbol which represents the carnal beliefs that we value. Those beliefs are "dung" and must be removed (sold) from within us so that we can have the true of knowledge of God (treasure).
This verse applies:
Prov 2:1 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.
Only after a person receives the Latter Rain (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) and is given "eyes that can see", will they be able to find the treasure of God. A large number of years of study will all be in vain if one remains spiritually blind. My blindness was healed many years ago when I was 44. From that point forward, I finally began finding the treasure of God.
Have you found the treasure of God?
Joe
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
The only thing smart about the other girls was their diligence to bring along
a good supply of fuel for their lanterns; whereas urging the foolish girls to
abandon their positions-- knowing they could miss the event --was not a
good idea.
Personally I think too much emphasis is placed upon the oil and not enough
upon watching for the groom's arrival. It was essential to be on hand so's to
be allowed entrance to the event before the opportunity was lost. The oil is
trivial in comparison.
_
The only thing smart about the other girls was their diligence to bring along
a good supply of fuel for their lanterns; whereas urging the foolish girls to
abandon their positions-- knowing they could miss the event --was not a
good idea.
Personally I think too much emphasis is placed upon the oil and not enough
upon watching for the groom's arrival. It was essential to be on hand so's to
be allowed entrance to the event before the opportunity was lost. The oil is
trivial in comparison.
_
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