...and then go to Joel Osteen's Church with sugar-coated, watered down, not preaching the Cross, Christ Jesus Crucified and resurrected...
J.
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J.
Joel Osteen should be avoided like the plague. I would imagine there are plenty of preachers who maintain a proper balance between sin and righteousness, and also maintain sound doctrine. Personally I do not watch or listen to any preacher on TV. Especially the ones who wear jewelry and then get robbed.
The reason I agreed is that if the focus is entirely on sin, where is the focus on righteousness? I believe any preacher worth his salt should maintain the balance noted in 2 Tim 3:16,17: doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. As you can see comes first, and would include Gospel truth. Too many are avoiding the critical teachings of the Bible, and failing to stress repentance as necessary for salvation.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, God accounts for all. His plan was written before the foundation of the world. Easy to say, hard to conceive.
Wow, I am shocked. All that Greek exegesis and you can't find a clue???
Jesus is the Gate, (Door) and the Way.
"Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate (or door in some translations) for the sheep." John 10:7
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Because your OP video preacher released a bunch of carrier pigeons with his message and so I thought they deserved some lunch.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
“Don't call yourself a Christian when you live like the world.”
Said the Amish to the Mennonite. ;)
Said the Amish to the Mennonite. ;)
Wilkerson is still tame in his preaching, but I would venture to say that there are itchy ears globally seeking after preachers who make sinners comfortable in their state, going to church to appease a guilty conscience but not willing to count the cost.
J.
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How right you are, and Olsteen is not preaching the Cross, Christ crucified and resurrected.
But then, your choice, not mine.
J.
Phoneman777
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What about those who preach the Cross is a License to live like the world - the OSAS License to Sin?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
This is from Joel's website. Which of these beliefs should we avoid like the plague?
"We Believe
… the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct, and doctrine.
… in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
… Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.
… water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
… in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
… every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit, and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
… as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors, and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us."
???
Also he teaches and encourages people to have hope, that forgiveness is available and blessings (life in the full) are in our future. Where is the evil? God wants to prosper us. Did He not promise that to the Israelites? Israel is richer and stronger than the ten nations surrounding her put together. Is that prosperity? Does He want us to live is squaller? The USA has been the most blessed nation - under God. We prospered and we have been thankful. Actually the deprived/ poorest countries usually have the false religious systems dragging them down.
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2) "The foxes have holes," (hai alopekes pholeous echousin) "The foxes have, hold, or possess holes," as their homes, their refuge, their hiding place from storm, weather, and enemies, a place for their own for rest, sleep, and protection.
3) "And the birds of the air have nests;" (kai ta peteina tou ouranou kataskenoseis) "And the birds of the heaven have (their own) roosts," for rest and protection, appropriate to their nature, for their comfort and protection, in times of danger and storm, in crevices of the rocks, in holes in trees, or hidden away from predators.
4) "But the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (ho de huios tou anthropou ouk echei pou ten kephalen kline) "But the Son (heir) of humanity possesses not even a place where he may lay his head," either physically or religiously, among His own people, Joh_1:11-12; Mat_23:37-39. About eighty times our Lord referred to himself as the Son of man, indicating His humanity, that He wanted men always to remember. See also Dan_7:13; Php_2:6-8; Heb_2:9-14; Mat_10:36.
Our Lord had no earthly resting-place He could humanly call His own, 2Co_8:9; Luk_9:58.
WHAT I WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM
A little boy, between four and five years old, was one day reading to his mother in the New Testament, and when he came to these words, "The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man hath not where to lay His head," his eyes filled with tears, his tender breast heaved, and at last he sobbed aloud. His mother inquired what was the matter; but, for some time, he could not answer her. At length, as well as his sobs would let him, he said, I am sure, mamma, if I had been there, I would have given Him my pillow."
Garner-Howes
The foxes have holes, etc. - Reader! art thou a poor man? and dost thou fear God? Then, what comfort must thou derive from the thought, that thou so nearly resemblest the Lord Jesus! But how unlike is the rich man, who is the votary of pleasure and slave of sin, to this heavenly pattern!
Clarke
Isa 53:2 ¶ For he grew up before him like a tender plant,
and like a root out of a dry ground;
he had no form and he had [So 1QIsaa; 1QIsab MT LXX lack he had] no majesty that we should look at him, [So 1QIsaa 1QIsab MT LXX; 1QIsaa may read at ourselves]
and there is no attractiveness that we should desire him. [So 1QIsaa MT LXX; 1QIsaa may read desire ourselves]
Isa 53:3 ¶ “He was despised and rejected by others,
and [So 1QIsaa; 1QIsab MT LXX lack and] a man of sorrows,
intimately familiar with [So 1QIsaa LXX; MT reads and acquainted with; 1QIsab reads and knowing] suffering;
and like one from whom people hide their faces;
and [So 1QIsaa 1QIsab; MT LXX lacks and] we despised him [So 1QIsaa; MT LXX read he was despised]
and did not value him.
Isa 52:14 ¶ Just as many were astonished at you [So 1QIsaa MT LXX; MTmss Syriac read at him] —
so was he marred in [Or was my marring; so 1QIsaa; MT reads was the marring of] his appearance, more than any human,
and his form beyond that of human semblance [Lit. of the descendants of humans; so 1QIsaa; LXX reads of the humans; MT reads of the human] —
2Co 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah. [Or Christ] Although he was rich, for your sakes he became poor, so that you, through his poverty, might become rich.
Luk 2:6 ¶ While they were there, the time came for her to have her baby,
Luk 2:7 and she gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him in strips of cloth and laid him in a feeding trough, because there was no place for them in the guest quarters.
You walked right into this with your eyes wide open, and now you are going to be offended again, or deny it.
The scriptures, diametrically opposed to those who seek riches and fame, they have already received their reward.
Have a nice day.
J.
Told you, now you are offended by the preaching of the cross, and you place Joel Osteen in His/Christ's rightful place.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears will surround themselves with teachers who cater to their people’s own desires.
2Ti 4:4 They will refuse to listen to the truth and will turn to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you must be clear-headed about everything. Endure suffering. Do the work of an evangelist. Devote yourself completely to your ministry.
Your cup of tea, not mine
Go on YouTube and "listen" to exactly what he preaches.
J.
There are many preachers who have a good Statement of Faith but deviate from Bible truth in their preaching and teaching.
Quoting from Got Questions: "The basic doctrine of Joel Osteen, as summarized on his church’s website, is orthodox enough: the inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible, the triune nature of God, and salvation by faith in Christ are all affirmed. The doctrinal problems come in other areas...
THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL
...Overarching all that Joel and Victoria Osteen teach is the prosperity gospel: God’s will is that we be blessed with material things, a view that contradicts 1 Timothy 6:6.
WORD-FAITH
Another problem in Osteen’s message is his promotion of name-it-claim-it or word-faith theology: “We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside,” Osteen writes. “If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. . . . Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best.
MODIFIED GOSPEL
More often than not, Osteen sounds like an inspirational life-coach, instead of a herald of the gospel. He often preaches about how people can improve their lives, be prosperous, and experience happiness. Noticeably absent in Osteen’s optimistic message is any mention of sin or repentance.
QUESTIONABLE THEOLOGY
In numerous interviews and writings, Osteen has failed to proclaim that Jesus is the only way to heaven. He has repeatedly refused to agree with the teachings of the Bible that certain behaviors are sinful. This is not a new convert being interviewed; it’s the leader of a church of tens of thousands. Osteen can’t bring himself to support fundamental doctrines of the faith he claims to preach. His words communicate relativism and demonstrate a profoundly poor understanding of the Bible...
...Osteen’s message is sweet, attractive, and pretty. It comes with the million-dollar smile, a heaping helping of the feel-goods, and all of the motivation of the best self-help gurus. That message is also hollow, weak, and devoid of any real value. The most important parts of the gospel are left out, supposedly to broaden his ministry’s appeal. Anyone depending on that message, without recognizing what’s missing, is going to find himself spiritually hungry, frustrated, and in dire straits when a real disaster strikes."
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
So that is your point? That Jesus came into the world, born in a manger and later on in His ministry; sincw He didn't have any palce to lay his head, money in his pocket - THAT IS THE MESSAGE HE IS GIVING US, THAT WE SHOULD ALL LIVE LIKE THAT?
The Jews expected for the Messiah to show up in His glory, as King with riches and power, not on a donkey.
He came as the Sufferring Servant. Next time will be quite different.
Btw, Jesus owns the entire planet and universe He created it. GOD made Solomon the richest man who ever lived, so what about that? He had a place to lay his head ...and 1000 women to lay theirs I might add.
All material things will burn, but until then, a roof over my head, food in my mouth, comfortably retired in a free nation with still many blessings is what Jesus intended for me
Jesus wants us to live an abundant life in the FULL. He wants us to live in the land of milk and honey.
Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. John 10:10
I can do all things through him who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11
You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Psalm 16:11
And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” Mark 9:23
The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and he adds no sorrow with it. Proverbs 10:22
You have a problem, not with me, but the Author of the scriptures.
Counter rebuttal...
Was Jesus rich/wealthy?
As the second person of the Trinity, Jesus is as rich as God is rich. Indeed, our Lord owns everything and possesses all power, authority, sovereignty, glory, honor, and majesty (Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; John 1:1, 8:58, 10:30, 17:5; Colossians 1:15–18, 2:9–10; Hebrews 1:3). Yet during the time Jesus was here on earth, He willingly relinquished His eternal riches and most of the privileges of His deity.
Becoming poor indeed, our Lord took on the nature of a lowly and humble servant (Zechariah 9:9; 2 Corinthians 8:9; Philippians 2:6–8).
And by the time our Savior endured the tortures of the cross for us, His earthly possessions amounted to no more than the clothes on His back that were divided up by the soldiers who crucified Him.
Sadly, however, there are many prosperity preachers today who would like you to believe that Jesus was rich while here on earth and that God wants nothing more than to lavish His children with an abundance of material blessings.
After all, a rich Jesus would certainly make it easier for them to persuade their flock that God wants them to be rich, too. However, a materially rich Jesus Christ is utterly incompatible with biblical truth.
Even a cursory examination of the Bible should dispel any notion of our Savior’s being wealthy in an earthly sense. During His public ministry, Christ and His disciples depended entirely on the hospitality of others as they ministered from town to town (Matthew 10:9–10). As Jesus told a would-be follower, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head” (Luke 9:58).
It is unfortunate, then, that this false teaching about Christ’s wealth and its concomitant “gospel of greed” has gained a foothold in churches today.
As Solomon aptly taught, however, “There is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9), for we can see that Paul addressed similar matters in his own churches: “Watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naïve people” (Romans 16:17–18).
Paul’s terse commentary in his first letter to Timothy regarding those who think godliness is a means to financial gain captures the essence of Christ’s numerous teachings on the dangers that accompany a heart bent on the accumulation of earthly treasure: “People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (1 Timothy 6:9–10).
Indeed, the New Testament is filled with lessons where Jesus chides the rich and praises the poor.
He taught us to “be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions” (Luke 12:15). And He taught us not to “store up for ourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But to store up for ourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19–21). Our Lord, who knows the hearts of men, is aware of the deceitfulness of riches and what a considerable stumbling block wealth can be. The sentiment of Proverbs 30:9, which declares, “I may have too much and disown you and say ‘who is the LORD,’” reverberates through the entirety of God’s Word. Thus, it would be a strange paradox indeed—and one that would certainly dilute the gospel message—if Jesus Christ were a member of the rich class of people who, as He declared, would find it so difficult “to enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 19:23).
Source?
Was Jesus rich/wealthy? | GotQuestions.org).
We are to imitate Christ, not Joel
Understand?
J.
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