Don't End Your Life as an Unforgiving, Biter, Vindictive Person. How Sad!!

[GISMYS_7]

Don't End Your Life as an Unforgiving, Biter, Vindictive Person. How Sad!!
Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

 

[Helen]

Don't End Your Life as an Unforgiving, Biter, Vindictive Person. How Sad!!
Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

That is something that I can say AMEN to. Yes indeed.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Don't End Your Life as an Unforgiving, Bitter, Vindictive Person. How Sad!!
Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Truly, a great sadness, for Jesus came to give us Life, and life more abundantly.

Contining with your OP is Matthew 18, where someone forgiven all their debt, went out and did not forgive others, and so was accounted to the King, and forgiveness was revoked, and sentence carried out in full for all that was done (all the past that had been forigven and from that time to the present):

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Who's example should we follow in forgiving offencese agianst ourselves?
Both God and Jesus only forgive those who are sorry for their offence against God/Jesus.

Jesus on the cross forgave one thief but did not forgive the other who didn't repent. He also handed his murders over to God, asking him to forgive them.

That is our example, not a blanket forgivenees to all who sin against us.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Luke 23:34 34Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

 

[GISMYS_7]

Unforgiveness, anger, hate, being vindictive eats you alive!!!

 

[Windmill Charge]

Luke 23:34 34Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

Jesus did not forgive his murders.

He ask God to forgive them.

They were not forgiven by Jesus.

We do not have to forgive those who rape our wifes/daughters, or kill our sons or who rob us and having done so do not repent of these crimes, the same is true of all offences against us.

We do what Jesus did and hand them over to God to deal justly with them.

 

[GISMYS_7]

LOL!!! Who thinks Jesus would ask His Father to forgive those He did not forgive??? Think!

 

[aspen]

Seriously? Suicidal people are suffering!

 

[Helen]

Jesus did not forgive his murders.

He ask God to forgive them.

They were not forgiven by Jesus.

We do not have to forgive those who rape our wifes/daughters, or kill our sons or who rob us and having done so do not repent of these crimes, the same is true of all offences against us.

We do what Jesus did and hand them over to God to deal justly with them.

....

And you really believe that!!!!!!

Give me strength...
No wonder so many people do not want to be "christians".

 

[aspen]

No person is in as much despair and in as much need of God’s mercy as a suicidal person.

 

[Willie T]

No person is in as much despair and in as much need of God’s mercy as a suicidal person.

Thank God there are people who try to live the love of Jesus, hopefully offsetting the hoards of judgmental Christians that so often shut the doors of their churches against those needing Christ the most.

 

[Willie T]

This story has touched me many times.
Once on Mount Athos there was a monk who lived in Karyes. He drank and got drunk every day and was the cause of scandal to the pilgrims. Eventually he died and this relieved some of the faithful who went on to tell Elder Paisios that they were delighted that this huge problem was finally solved.

Father Paisios answered them that he knew about the death of the monk, after seeing the entire battalion of angels who came to collect his soul. The pilgrims were amazed and some protested and tried to explain to the Elder of whom they were talking about, thinking that the Elder did not understand.

Elder Paisios explained to them: "This particular monk was born in Asia Minor, shortly before the destruction by the Turks when they gathered all the boys. So as not to take him from their parents, they would take him with them to the reaping, and so he wouldn't cry, they just put raki into his milk in order for him to sleep. Therefore he grew up as an alcoholic. There he found an elder and said to him that he was an alcoholic. The elder told him to do prostrations and prayers every night and beg the Panagia to help him to reduce by one the glasses he drank.

After a year he managed with struggle and repentance to make the 20 glasses he drank into 19 glasses. The struggle continued over the years and he reached 2-3 glasses, with which he would still get drunk."

The world for years saw an alcoholic monk who scandalized the pilgrims, but God saw a fighter who fought a long struggle to reduce his passion.

Without knowing what each one is trying to do what he wants to do, what right do we have to judge his effort?

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos

 

[Willie T]

This was written on a blog about that story:
Anyone who has dealt with alcoholics knows what happened here. Basically, the monk was left as many are in the modern Church to 'fend for himself' when it came to his alcoholism. You can hardly imagine in the Desert Fathers a monk being permitted to continue drinking with only his prayers to rely on.
Just for clarification, I want to make a few points:

• Elder Paisios does not condemn the alcoholic monk.

• He reports that the monk's suffering in life, with no one really helping him, was met at death by God's own army coming to bring him to heaven. This type of 'psychopomp' is generally reserved for saints and ascetics, since they have repented. In this case, the monk received the help he did not receive from men.

• The deterioration in the monk's condition, whereby at the end he was getting drunk with only two or three drinks, is common with end-stage alcoholism. Over time, as the alcoholic's body gives out, his tolerance diminishes. He clearly drank himself to death.

• The monk's elder apparently had no idea what to do with him, and so simply put him in his icon corner and waited for a miracle.

• Elder Paisios describes the physical allergy aspect of alcoholism in describing his exposure at a young age.

• Given the time frame of the story (referencing the massacres of Greeks in Turkey in the 1920s), this monk's experience of Mount Athos was during the 'idiorrhythmic' period ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos#Ottoman_era) when the monks lived separate lives and the common life of monasteries had not yet been reestablished. This lasted until the 1970's, when the renewal efforts began and the monasteries reestablished communal life. From the Wikipedia article: "After reaching a low point of just 1,145 mainly elderly monks in 1971, the monasteries have been undergoing a steady and sustained renewal. By the year 2000, the monastic population had reached 1,610, with all 20 monasteries and their associated sketes receiving an infusion of mainly young well-educated monks. In 2009, the population stood at nearly 2000.[3]"

This tragic story ends on a positive note: even the alcoholic who received no help with his disease can count on God's mercy in the end if he desires it. However, it also portrays how many in the Church have handled the disease of alcoholism: judgment without help. To be fair, most 'normies' either inside or outside the Church have no idea how to help addicts. Yet, the Church has always had the tools necessary to treat addiction through ascetic struggle, like what we see in the 12 Steps.
Yes, the Steps are an ascetic struggle. Don't be fooled. Most people are more willing to go on a diet rather than do the Steps. Food is easy to give up when it comes up against being honest with one's self. Shallow and careless people can diet, but they certainly won't take the actions the Steps demand.
If the Holy Mountain had been a healthier place (as it is now), undoubtedly this monk would not have been permitted to go so long without any help. Mind you, there are still plenty of Orthodox who do not understand the Tradition well enough stop themselves from demanding the alcoholic 'try harder' to quit.
But, in my experience of talking to Orthodox monastics, when we discuss the matter of addiction and how the Steps work, they enthusiastically agree that what they do in their monasteries is essentially the same process. The rejuvenation of monasticism is actually happening throughout the Church in recent years, and with this renewal (Mt. Athos is now harder to get into than Harvard) will come more opportunities for people to have the benefit of proper assistance in battling addiction.
Nowhere (other than the US and Canada) in the Orthodox world have we seen monasticism embrace the 12 Steps more enthusiastically than in Romania. Patriarch Daniel has led the Holy Synod of Romania to embrace the 12 Steps (c.f. http://www.ortodoxantidrog.ro/en/start.html) and work towards integrating the program into seminary education curricula. Floyd Frantz (http://www.ocmc.org/missionaries/missionary_profile.aspx?MissionaryId=4&PageTitle=Recent+Articles&SearchBy=2011) has reported that the monasteries are especially excited about the Steps and getting AA into the villages.
Hopefully, fewer alcoholics in the Church will be left to struggle without help from the rest of us.

 

[Helen]

This story has touched me many times.
Once on Mount Athos there was a monk who lived in Karyes. He drank and got drunk every day and was the cause of scandal to the pilgrims. Eventually he died and this relieved some of the faithful who went on to tell Elder Paisios that they were delighted that this huge problem was finally solved.

Father Paisios answered them that he knew about the death of the monk, after seeing the entire battalion of angels who came to collect his soul. The pilgrims were amazed and some protested and tried to explain to the Elder of whom they were talking about, thinking that the Elder did not understand.

Elder Paisios explained to them: "This particular monk was born in Asia Minor, shortly before the destruction by the Turks when they gathered all the boys. So as not to take him from their parents, they would take him with them to the reaping, and so he wouldn't cry, they just put raki into his milk in order for him to sleep. Therefore he grew up as an alcoholic. There he found an elder and said to him that he was an alcoholic. The elder told him to do prostrations and prayers every night and beg the Panagia to help him to reduce by one the glasses he drank.

After a year he managed with struggle and repentance to make the 20 glasses he drank into 19 glasses. The struggle continued over the years and he reached 2-3 glasses, with which he would still get drunk."

The world for years saw an alcoholic monk who scandalized the pilgrims, but God saw a fighter who fought a long struggle to reduce his passion.

Without knowing what each one is trying to do what he wants to do, what right do we have to judge his effort?

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos

Wow..I loved that, how awesome and what a message...lovely.

 

[Willie T]

Wow..I loved that, how awesome and what a message...lovely.

Underlying it, is the story of so many of the afflictions that beset more of us than we would ever like to admit. None of us (Yes, even Homosexuals and Pedophiles) ever set out to carry, alone, the load we got.... no matter WHAT it is.
And this is where I firmly believe and attest that those two weird, drugged-out hippies, Simon and Garfunkle, were very possibly led of God to compose The Sound of Silence. What a call from Jesus that song is.... if we could only hear it.

 

[Willie T]

I think God used that same song to speak to us again more than 50 years later:

 

[Willie T]

But, I am hijacking. Our focus tonight — and for many months to come — needs to be on our Brother, Aspen, and how we can be here for him.

 

[Helen]

Our focus tonight — and for many months to come — needs to be on our Brother, Aspen, and how we can be here for him.

Amen to that...a ball that we must not drop for sure. I got sidetracked and dropped it once. Shame on me...

Together we all agree....

 

[Windmill Charge]

And you really believe that!!!!!!

It is what the bible teaches.

Can you show me where God has forgiven anyone who has not first repented?