Doubt: Am I Really Saved?

[Adam]

You rebuke with mocking? That's hypocritical. Look in the mirror. Okay, we are even, so STOP.

I agree with this sentiment. Let's all discuss the Bible in patience and friendship.

2 Timothy 2
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

 

[Adam]

Think about what it would take for us to be immortal which is what eternal suffering would imply.

Amazing post!

For there to be eternal suffering, the soul must be immortal. For a soul to be immortal, it must come from God. Then would God cause a part of Himself to suffer eternally?

The entire point of our existence is as a vessel for God to experience the universe through (1 Corinthians 3:16 ). If God is to be all in all (1 Corinthians 15) then God can't separate or destroy part of Himself forever. Each of us is sewn in corruption and raised in incorruption (1 Corinthians 15), it is the nature for humans to be ignorant and corrupt, and it is the process of refining (such as through fire) the human nature into the spiritual nature that our existence has its purpose in. Therefore, God's punishment is corrective, not vindictive or malicious.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Amazing post!

For there to be eternal suffering, the soul must be immortal. For a soul to be immortal, it must come from God. Then would God cause a part of Himself to suffer eternally?

The entire point of our existence is as a vessel for God to experience the universe through (1 Corinthians 3:16 ). If God is to be all in all (1 Corinthians 15) then God can't separate or destroy part of Himself forever. Each of us is sewn in corruption and raised in incorruption (1 Corinthians 15), it is the nature for humans to be ignorant and corrupt, and it is the process of refining (such as through fire) the human nature into the spiritual nature that our existence has its purpose in. Therefore, God's punishment is corrective, not vindictive or malicious.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

It would take access to the Tree of Life. All the angels had access before Satan sinned, so they are all immortal. But the unsaved humans are not immortal, like our born again spirit and soul is.

 

[Adam]

It would take access to the Tree of Life. All the angels had access before Satan sinned, so they are all immortal. But the unsaved humans are not immortal, like our born again spirit and soul is.

Revelation 22
22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

There are two trees of life, each on either side of a river. The trees bear 12 fruits, one each month. Sound familiar?

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Until you can somehow debunk or dispute or refute this scripture,

I’ve gone enough circles with your narrow mind already.

I have sufficiently exposed your one-sided view of scripture.

There aren’t more corrupters in any organization than in the religious organization. It is rotten to the core filled with subversive smooth talkers and deceivers.

God help the man who stops reading his Holy Bible and falls into the hand of these folks.

 

[Adam]

I’ve gone enough circles with your narrow mind already.

I have sufficiently exposed your one-sided view of scripture.

There aren’t more corrupters in any organization than in the religious organization. It is rotten to the core filled with subversive smooth talkers and deceivers.

God help the man who stops reading his Holy Bible and falls into the hand of these folks.

Well peace be with you then

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Think about what it would take for us to be immortal which is what eternal suffering would imply.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Tree of Life.

Do you see it anywhere? LOL

Hell was made for Satan and his angels, not human beings. Just as in the parables, the chaff is destroyed! Can you jump into lava and not have it consume you instantly?

 

[marks]

KJV and ESV are both translations. They are both based on the original Greek, which says "aion". So quoting KJV or ESV or NIV can not negate the original greek which they are derived from.

What I'm reading here is, "into the ages of the ages". And that translates into "forever". It's like, the however you carve up time, ages, epochs, eras, whatever, this is all of them that contain all of them. The ages of the ages.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Hell was made for Satan and his angels, not human beings.

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

WHOSEVER!

WHOSEVER!

WHOSEVER!

What’s with you people?!

I am absolutely flabbergasted at the open denial of scripture from you two subversives.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

WHOSEVER!

WHOSEVER!

WHOSEVER!

What’s with you people?!

I am absolutely flabbergasted at the open denial of scripture from you two subversives.

Yes, the lake of fire is where both the devils and unsaved humans go. But the the point is are both destroyed instantly, or must one of them suffer forever. If so, which one? Or do both suffer forever. If humans, then how did they get access to the Tree of Life? After Adam sinned, he wasn't allowed to eat of it or he would have lived in sin forever.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@1stCenturyLady

I don’t got time for clever set ups…

You have been debunked.

Move on…

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady

I don’t got time for clever set ups…

You have been debunked.

Move on…

You better take time, brother! You've got a lot to learn, so don't give up so quick.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You've got a lot to learn

I thoroughly know the holy scriptures.

That’s all I need to learn.

It’s a shame that you have gone beyond the holy scriptures and learned to skillfully leaven them.

I’m not one that will turn unto the path you have taken:

“Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.” (Psalms 17:4)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I thoroughly know the holy scriptures.

That’s all I need to learn.

It’s a shame that you have gone beyond the holy scriptures and learned to skillfully leaven them.

I’m not one that will turn unto the path you have taken:

“Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.” (Psalms 17:4)

The scriptures tell everything I told you. This is why your claim about me is ignorant of where I looked.

Genesis 3:
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

So answer this question. Do the unsaved have access to the tree of life to suffer forever in hell? The "whosoever" was a mute point. I didn't say they didn't go into the lake of fire. I said they were destroyed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do the unsaved have access to the tree of life to suffer forever in hell?

Access to the tree of life is not needed to be cast into the lake of fire. Just this:

“…whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

Where they will suffer this fate:

“…shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

You cleverly try to use scripture to promote your lie.

Clever like the serpent.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”

That is it. Period.

“…to one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God!”” (Psalms 50:23)

That’s it, period.

 

[Adam]

“…to one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God!”” (Psalms 50:23)

That’s it, period.

So then assuming all scriptures are true, and that one scripture does not abrogate another, what is the logical conclusion? If God does not leave one in hell forever (Psalms, Tobit), and all flesh will see the salvation of God (Luke) and the one who orders his ways rightly will see salvation (as you just posted) -- what does all this tell you?

Everyone will order their ways rightly and see salvation.

Here is the tree of life:

Revelation 22
22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

There are two trees of life, each on either side of a river. The trees bear 12 fruits, one each month. Sound familiar?

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

It's literally talking about a woman's reproductive organs. The tree of life is existence, having children, and living new lives, again and again. Reincarnation, experiencing new experiences, and leaving the seeds for future experiences. God exists in all of us, we are all faces of God. Everyone, not just a few people. Some people will be thrown into the refiner's fire, and the evil person they were will be destroyed in order to be reborn better. Those written in the book of life are the perfected forms of every person, without sin, destined to live in harmony forever onwards. And to eat from the tree of life is to live in recognition of this fact - that we will always live onwards through eachother. There will always be a physical world, but we can choose to make it a beautiful adventure or a hell on Earth, by how we treat others, even the least among us.

Matthew 25
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Jesus said this to the people who were trying to stone him for claiming to be the Son of God:

John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Access to the tree of life is not needed to be cast into the lake of fire. Just this:

“…whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

Where they will suffer this fate:

“…shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

You cleverly try to use scripture to promote your lie.

Clever like the serpent.

What don't you understand? I have already agreed that unsaved humans will be cast into the lake of fire. But that doesn't mean we will be able to live in it to suffer forever. The lake of fire will destroy us completely because WE ARE NOT IMMORTAL.

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.
And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. This is a separate sentence. The devil and all his fallen angels are "they" NOT mortal humans. This is based on the context of the entire Bible.

I hope you never have to find out the hard way. It is better to know the scriptures and what they MEAN.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

unsaved humans will be cast into the lake of fire. But that doesn't mean we will be able to live in it to suffer forever

How can you make this ridiculous deduction based on what the scriptures say will happen there?

There you go with assumptions…

You are going beyond what the scriptures say.

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

And:

“…whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

And Jesus said:

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:46)

You can only experience suffering if you are alive to suffer.

Now cease and desist of your heresy.