Drawing the wrong conclusions

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CNKW3

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OK, I'd say first, do you find this passage to be as I present it?
No I don’t. In truth, I believe you take this passage out of context and misuse it. Let’s look at what this passage ACTUALLY says in context...
John 1:11-13 He came unto his own,
Who is “his own”. It not you. It’s the nation of Israel. Am I right? So, right from the start this context begins with Christ’s relationship to his own people. That does not include you.

and his own received him not.
Who did not receive him? His own. The jewish people. This is not you.

But as many as received him,
As many of who? As many of his own people. This is the context of this passage. This passage context does not have all mankind in consideration. But as many of his own that received him. This, in context, does not include you.

to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
To who did he give power within this context? The honest Bible student will realize he is directly talking about the nation of Israel.

even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The question I now have is.....did these individuals of the nation of Israel have to do more than “just believe”? Of course they did. The rest of chapter 1 spoke of John baptizing in water. If you care to read Lk 7:29,30 you will see that those that rejected baptism rejected God at the same time. So, can one be “born of God” if they reject his counsel instructing to be baptized as stated in Lk 7? If you care to read Jn 12:42 you will see they needed to do more than “just believe”.
So, my answer after studying this passage is you are not presenting this passage correctly. Did the Jews at this time have to believe that he was raised from the dead? No. But you do. Rom 10:9,10. See the difference.


Assume anything you like, but that just means you are debating with yourself. Ask what you wish.

If you don't wish to comment on the passage I posted, perhaps you could answer this question.

What is the definition of the New Testament "repent"?

Much love!
I will let the Bible define repent...
Matthew 21:29-32 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
The Bible shows us that repentance is a changing of your mind. You are going in one direction and then you change your mind to go in the opposite direction. This man said I won’t, but then changed his mind which in turn changed his direction. Did Saul of Tarsus repent on the road to Damascus? Yes. We know by his actions. He was on his way to arrest Christians, but after meeting Jesus he completely changed his mind and went in the opposite direction. He stated...lord what will you have me to do.

And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first.
This son just plain lied, and did not repent.

Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
This is the interesting part. Christ admonished these people by saying they did not believe John. What did he mean when he used the word believe?
He meant they would not obey in being baptized by John. This is exactly what is being said in Lk 7:29,30. The publicans and harlots believed him. Why does he say this? It’s because they submitted to John in water baptism. They were obedient.
See how the Bible includes obedience within the word believe. This is Bible commentary showing that a person cannot be a true believer without obedience. So it is not “belief” alone.
 

marks

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No I don’t. In truth, I believe you take this passage out of context and misuse it. Let’s look at what this passage ACTUALLY says in context...
John 1:11-13 He came unto his own,
Who is “his own”. It not you. It’s the nation of Israel. Am I right? So, right from the start this context begins with Christ’s relationship to his own people. That does not include you.

Hi CNKW3,

On this part, "He came to his own . . ."

Here is Robertson's commentary:

Unto his own (eis ta idia). Neuter plural, “unto his own things,” the very idiom used in Joh_19:27 when the Beloved Disciple took the mother of Jesus “to his own home.” The world was “the own home” of the Logos who had made it. See also Joh_16:32; Act_21:6.

He came to His own things, that is, the world He created, the people He created.

and his own received him not
.
Who did not receive him? His own. The jewish people. This is not you.

Yes, His own people did not receive Him.

But as many as received him
,
As many of who? As many of his own people. This is the context of this passage. This passage context does not have all mankind in consideration. But as many of his own that received him. This, in context, does not include you.

Actually, the verse says, His own people did not receive Him, but those who did . . . who? Those who? Those of His own people? No, they did not receive Him.

but as many did? Where is the restriction to this being the Jews?

He came to the world he made - His things - and His own people did not receive Him.

But as many as did . . .

to them gave he power to become the sons of God
,
To who did he give power within this context? The honest Bible student will realize he is directly talking about the nation of Israel.

The honest student?

So if I disagree I'm intellectually dishonest?

There's a conversation stopper.

Much love!
 

CNKW3

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Hi CNKW3,

On this part, "He came to his own . . ."

Here is Robertson's commentary:



He came to His own things, that is, the world He created, the people He created.
I’m sorry but did you even read Jn 19? Let’s look.

John 19:26-27 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
“That disciple whom he loved” is John. He is telling John to take care of his mother. So the phrase “took her to his own home” is literal. This does not mean the world he created. He was asking John to take care of his mother. Don’t just believe commentaries. Study.

Yes, His own people did not receive Him.



Actually, the verse says, His own people did not receive Him, but those who did . . . who? Those who? Those of His own people? No, they did not receive Him.

but as many did? Where is the restriction to this being the Jews?
I just showed you the context is dealing with Jesus coming to “his own”. This is not the world. Jesus, in Mt 10, when he sends his disciples out instructed them to go ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. They were not to go to the gentiles. And you are trying to tell me that “his own” in Jn 1 included gentiles?

He came to the world he made - His things - and His own people did not receive Him.

But as many as did . . .



The honest student?

So if I disagree I'm intellectually dishonest?

There's a conversation stopper.

Much love!
you seem to be pretty sensitive over certain terms so I will be more careful in the future. I’m sorry. That’s not sarcastic either.
 

marks

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I’m sorry but did you even read Jn 19? Let’s look.

John 19:26-27 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
“That disciple whom he loved” is John. He is telling John to take care of his mother. So the phrase “took her to his own home” is literal. This does not mean the world he created. He was asking John to take care of his mother. Don’t just believe commentaries. Study.


I just showed you the context is dealing with Jesus coming to “his own”. This is not the world. Jesus, in Mt 10, when he sends his disciples out instructed them to go ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. They were not to go to the gentiles. And you are trying to tell me that “his own” in Jn 1 included gentiles?

you seem to be pretty sensitive over certain terms so I will be more careful in the future. I’m sorry. That’s not sarcastic either.

It's not His own people, that's not the word used. And you don't need a commentary to see that. I was just trying to help you by giving you a source that wasn't me. But I see this isn't important to you.

You imply I accept commentaries as truth, and don't do my own study.
You feel I'm overly sensitive.
You imply I don't read the Scriptures.
I misuse Scripture, taking it out of context.

I could go on but why? What I really wonder is why you find all of this personal stuff necessary.

Isn't it enough to answer a post with a refutation or the content rather than constantly throwing in all the personal nonesense, things you don't even know about me, things you are wrong about?

Of course, it makes for an easier debate if you are arguing the person rather than the point. Or maybe it's just more fun. Not for me though.

OK. let's try "repentance" - metanoia. You've said that this is to change your mind.

Repentance being a noun, and being a compound of the preposition "Meta", primarily "After", and Noia, the Mind, this is literally translated the after-mind, and speaks of an exchange being made, and now you have the result of that exchange.

You've traded the mind of the flesh, and now have the mind of Christ. If you have repented.

Much love!
Mark
 

CNKW3

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It's not His own people, that's not the word used. And you don't need a commentary to see that. I was just trying to help you by giving you a source that wasn't me. But I see this isn't important to you.

You imply I accept commentaries as truth, and don't do my own study.
You feel I'm overly sensitive.
You imply I don't read the Scriptures.
I misuse Scripture, taking it out of context.

I could go on but why? What I really wonder is why you find all of this personal stuff necessary.

Isn't it enough to answer a post with a refutation or the content rather than constantly throwing in all the personal nonesense, things you don't even know about me, things you are wrong about?

Of course, it makes for an easier debate if you are arguing the person rather than the point. Or maybe it's just more fun. Not for me though.

OK. let's try "repentance" - metanoia. You've said that this is to change your mind.

Repentance being a noun, and being a compound of the preposition "Meta", primarily "After", and Noia, the Mind, this is literally translated the after-mind, and speaks of an exchange being made, and now you have the result of that exchange.

You've traded the mind of the flesh, and now have the mind of Christ. If you have repented.

Much love!
Mark
Well, is repentance necessary or not?
 

CNKW3

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It's not His own people, that's not the word used. And you don't need a commentary to see that. I was just trying to help you by giving you a source that wasn't me. But I see this isn't important to you.
The word “own” in Jn 1 and Jn 19 is the same Greek word and both are deployed literally. Christ came to his “own” people. Jews.
That disciple took her to his “own” home. Literally his own house.

You imply I accept commentaries as truth, and don't do my own study.
in my “own” defense....
You used a commentary to refute a passage and then agreed in your post with the commentary. How else am I supposed to take that?
I never implied any such thing. I only believe or may have implied you need to study more.
You feel I'm overly sensitive.
Every post you pick out some word or words I use and judge me by them. How else am I supposed to take that.
You imply I don't read the Scriptures.
i never once did that. Did Jesus imply the same every time he said...”have you not read”? I don’t think so. It was only a reminder that they can get their answers from the written word.
I misuse Scripture, taking it out of context.
yes you definitely do that. I don’t know how to say that kindly.
 

CNKW3

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Is this all you have to say?

Do we share the same understanding of what repentance is?

Much love!
Repentance is a change of mind. Yes. A change of mind that leads to a change in action. Does a person have to repent before they can become a child of God? In Acts 3 they were told to repent and turn to God so that there sins may be blotted out. Did their blotting come before or after repentance? We know belief comes before repentance. Acts 2 and the conversion of Paul proves that. One can’t change his mind based on Christ if he hasn’t even heard the message of the gospel. So one must first hear, then believe, then change the mind that will lead to a change in life.