Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

[Waiting on him]

I think most will come out of the fire. I believe, unfortunately for them, if they lost a member, they can't regrow it. Presently, we can grow new members if we give up sinful members. Conditions will change -- there is no more sea -- so some will remain incomplete without further chances to become complete. Thus they will not be able to enter the Holy City.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I think the kingdom has always been like a net where what was good was kept and preserved while the bad was cast back into the sea -- for recycling. Maybe the next time it is caught in the net, it will be worth saving. So it goes until the sea will be no more. Then what is not worth saving will be cast into the furnace of fire.

This is viewed in the book of Jonah.

 

[Waiting on him]

What he is saying contradicts what Jesus said. I'll go with Jesus every time!

The part about the second death having no power?

 

[Giuliano]

And yes May the liar in me be burned as well.

That's the right attitude. The liar in us really isn't worth saving. We may think it's useful, but our lies damage us more than they damage others. I seldom get angry with people when they lie to me. I feel sorry for them. They're not hurting me that much. I worry about them.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The part about the second death having no power?

This is one of Giuliano's unscriptural ideas. He has many, which is sad considering how much he quotes the Bible.

Giuliano said: "I think most will come out of the fire. I believe, unfortunately for them, if they lost a member, they can't regrow it. Presently, we can grow new members if we give up sinful members. Conditions will change -- there is no more sea -- so some will remain incomplete without further chances to become complete. Thus they will not be able to enter the Holy City."​

 

[Waiting on him]

This is one of Giuliano's unscriptural ideas. He has many, which is sad considering how much he quotes the Bible.

Giuliano said: "I think most will come out of the fire. I believe, unfortunately for them, if they lost a member, they can't regrow it. Presently, we can grow new members if we give up sinful members. Conditions will change -- there is no more sea -- so some will remain incomplete without further chances to become complete. Thus they will not be able to enter the Holy City."​

MYbe it’s speaking in tongues?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

MYbe it’s speaking in tongues?

I'm not surprised by your nonsensical reply, but I would be careful about mocking the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

God will not be mocked.

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm not surprised by your nonsensical reply, but I would be careful about mocking the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

God will not be mocked.

Nonsense would be him speaking something I’m incapable of interpreting?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

That's the right attitude. The liar in us really isn't worth saving. We may think it's useful, but our lies damage us more than they damage others. I seldom get angry with people when they lie to me. I feel sorry for them. They're not hurting me that much. I worry about them.

Lies hurt everyone because they are the very antithesis to who God is. He IS the truth!

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm not surprised by your nonsensical reply, but I would be careful about mocking the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

God will not be mocked.

If there’s anything unfavorable I trust the fire will take care of it.

 

[Giuliano]

This is viewed in the book of Jonah.

Oh, and there's a worm in that book too. We aren't told the whole story according to the Jews who say Jonah repented of his wishing all the people of Nineveh to be destroyed. Did the worm help teach him that?

Jonah 4:9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

 

[Earburner]

Not really an invitation to slam Mr. Fudge. I just wondered how many proponents of annihilationism we have on board.

Does hell burn for eternity or just until the wicked suffer corresponding to the exact amount of evil caused by their words, thoughts, and deeds?

All the wicked are unbelievers, and therefore because of their unbelief, they are "condemned already", as being "none of His".
Hell is the grave, pure and simple.
The living wicked, upon the Lord's return "in flaming fire", are burned up, as well as the entire surface of the earth, hence the lake of fire. The graves are in the earth.

Since at that time, all believers in Jesus will be resurrected, there will be no more dying for them.
As for the wicked, there will be none left alive, no escapees.
Iows, no one left alive to repopulate the earth, hence no more death. Also, since even all the graves will be burned up in the lake of fire, there will be no memory of death.
Death will be completely vanquished upon the Lord's Glorious and Fiery return.

 

[Waiting on him]

Oh, and there's a worm in that book too. We aren't told the whole story according to the Jews who say Jonah repented of his wishing all the people of Nineveh to be destroyed. Did the worm help teach him that?

Jonah 4:9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Yes an attempt to teach him Christ, love and forgiveness.

 

[Giuliano]

If there’s anything unfavorable I trust the fire will take care of it.

Absolutely. It is better to offer it now as a sacrifice in the fire and and with salt than to wait.

. . . Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

If there’s anything unfavorable I trust the fire will take care of it.

"Unfavorable," you say???

How about evil and wicked?? How about hateful and profane??

These are the things that God rightfully judges. He doesn't gloss over evil and call it "unfavorable."

 

[Waiting on him]

"Unfavorable," you say???

How about evil and wicked?? How about hateful and profane??

These are the things that God rightfully judges. He doesn't gloss over evil and call it "unfavorable."

Agreed, he refines it.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Agreed, he refines it.

Are you and Giuli the same person, or are you just reading the same bad translation of the Bible?

 

[Waiting on him]

Are you and Giuli that same person, or are you just reading the same bad translation of the Bible?

I assure you we are not the same person. As to what translation he reads I have no idea, though it appears we read the same?

I’ve always read the KJV.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I assure you we are not the same person. As to what translation he reads I have no idea, though it appears we read the same?

I’ve always read the KJV.

So, you guys don't exist in the same physical body?

 

[BarneyFife]

Death is a state of separation.

People are born spiritually dead, separated from our Creator because of the first Adam's disobedience. When we die physically, our souls are separated from our bodies. When a lost person dies physically, they will be separated from God for all eternity.

WADR, what you're saying about "punishment" and "punishing" sounds like semantics to me. You and I will not reach an agreement on this.
.

Death is a state of complete cessation.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Death is a state of complete cessation.

Then how is it that when a believer "dies," he lives on in heaven?