Electing New Pope

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BeyondET

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That’s why I specified “New Testament” Canon..
EVERY Christian Bible got the NT Canon from the Catholic Church. Therefore – ALL Protestants adhere to CATHOLIC TRADITION.

Do you know where your OT Canon came from?

I think the Torah?
The catholics traditions have change considerably since then its not even remotely similar to beginning days.

I like the james Murdock 1865 english peshitta and the new heart Bible few others but a lot of them use the original manuscript as the catholics did so it's not that big of deal I don't think.
 

Brakelite

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I never knew this, wow.
It's no real big deal. There are other threads explaining the reasoning, and it's not unreasonable... But neither is it a deal breaker. For the record, adventists do not believe Jesus is a created angel, unlike JWs. Which means they do not believe Michael is a created angel.
 

Nancy

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It's no real big deal. There are other threads explaining the reasoning, and it's not unreasonable... But neither is it a deal breaker. For the record, adventists do not believe Jesus is a created angel, unlike JWs. Which means they do not believe Michael is a created angel.
"For the record, adventists do not believe Jesus is a created angel, unlike JWs. Which means they do not believe Michael is a created angel."

This part is throwing me. So, Adventists do NOT believe Jesus is a "created" angel "unlike" JW's do. Then you said, "Which means they (JW's) do NOT believe Michael is a created angel...hmmm. Not sure i am following you brother.
 
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Brakelite

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"For the record, adventists do not believe Jesus is a created angel, unlike JWs. Which means they do not believe Michael is a created angel."

This part is throwing me. So, Adventists do NOT believe Jesus is a "created" angel "unlike" JW's do. Then you said, "Which means they (JW's) do NOT believe Michael is a created angel...hmmm. Not sure i am following you brother.
Adventists don't believe Michael is a created angel. Sorry about the confusion. Here's a copy of scripturei posted with highlights on another thread. Interestingly not one person was willing to actually address the scriptures offered, rather everyone just went with the epithets and insults. Go figure. How can anyone hope to understand doctrine of they refuse to address the scriptures that present doctrine?

KJV John 5:19-29
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (who's voice????)
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

KJV Daniel 12:1-4
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If someone is entitled Prince, that means His Father is King. Created beings may be described as sons and daughters, but only metaphorically. A Prince however has serious overtones, particularly when connected to the second coming, the resurrection, and the receiving of an inheritance.

So as I said, we believe Jesus is Michael... And for good reason.
 

Nancy

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Adventists don't believe Michael is a created angel. Sorry about the confusion. Here's a copy of scripturei posted with highlights on another thread. Interestingly not one person was willing to actually address the scriptures offered, rather everyone just went with the epithets and insults. Go figure. How can anyone hope to understand doctrine of they refuse to address the scriptures that present doctrine?

KJV John 5:19-29
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (who's voice????)
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

KJV Daniel 12:1-4
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If someone is entitled Prince, that means His Father is King. Created beings may be described as sons and daughters, but only metaphorically. A Prince however has serious overtones, particularly when connected to the second coming, the resurrection, and the receiving of an inheritance.

So as I said, we believe Jesus is Michael... And for good reason.

You've got me thinking now. Michael is only mentioned 3 times in the bible, Daniel, Jude and Revelations. I will take your verses to heart brother as I do always have an open mind to be able to remain teachable. God will lead.

Also, how do you reckon Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
 
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BreadOfLife

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That's a fairly desperate reply, even for you. You cannot actually address direct points, but haul out a scatter gun and hope you hit something. Tell us. How was the church of Rome connected to the church in India, established by Thomas?
How was the church of Rome connected to the Celtic church in Britain established by evangelists from Galatia?
How was the church of Rome connected to the church in Ethiopia established by missionaries from the church in the east?
How was the church of Rome connected to the Assyrian church of Persia and Afghanistan?
How was the church of Rome connected to the churches in Syria, established by really missionaries from Jerusalem?
How was the church of Rome connected to the churches of Greece, Asia minor, Cappadocia, France, Germany, all Christian communities well established before the church in Rome could free themselves from the yoke of Odoacer? And what about a little later, the Christian churches in China and south East Asia? All established by missionaries sent out from, not Rome, but the metropolitan in Persia?
Your church invented lies in order to lay claim to Patrick, yet history reveals the church in Britain established already by the time Patrick was born. His father was a presbyter. Patrick himself testifies of having fallen away from his father's faith. That Church wasn't Catholic. It was certainly Christian, but no connections to Rome until Augustine tried to force their submission to Rome centuries after the Britain's were already converting.
The only shop in town? Seriously? Either you have a woeful understanding of history, or you are lying in desperation to defend the indefensible. Which is it?
“Desperate”?
What is desperate are your extremely tangential rants that go in all different directions – and all eventually steer BACK to your bizarre obsession with the Sabbath.

As to your “historical” manure above – the Church in different countries is STILL the Church. It’s NOT a “different Church” because it’s in Ethiopia ir Afghanistan – or wherever.
This was the basis for the different Liturgical Rites within the ONE Church – and MANY of these ancient Rites exist today.

There are about TWENTY Liturgical Rites that comprise the ONE Catholic Church – and the differences are largely cultural.
Doctrinally, we are ALL in communion.

As for HOW the Church in these different countries were connected to the Church in Rome - you answered your own question when you brought up the fat that Thomas and other missionaries evangelized these countries.
 

BreadOfLife

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Sounds like you are "deriving" yourself farther and farther away from NT terminology regarding elders and the 5 fold ministry, fella.
Soooo, once again – you couldn’t address ANY of the non-Scriptural Protestant terminologies I threw at you.

EPIC FAIL . . .
Sacred tradition???
LOL
Yup.
What’s the matter - did you miss 2 Thess. 2:15??

Go back to post #74, where I posted it in pretty BLUE letters . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Idiocy for not believing extra Biblical writers that came after the Apostles are writing the pure word of God?

I will leave that to the geniuses of the RCC.
We were discussing a matter of HISTORY not Scripture.
That’s WHY the ECFs were cited, Einstein.

Good grief - what frightening ignorance . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I think the Torah?
The catholics traditions have change considerably since then its not even remotely similar to beginning days.

I like the james Murdock 1865 english peshitta and the new heart Bible few others but a lot of them use the original manuscript as the catholics did so it's not that big of deal I don't think.
2 questions:
1. Which
Catholic Traditions have “changed considerably”?
2 WHERE did Protestants get their OT Canon of Scripture?
 

Behold

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Who decided that a Pope and a Priest can't have a wife.?

Paul says that this teaching of "forbidding to marry".. is a "doctrine of Devils".

It certainly would not be The Apostle Peter teaching that, as He had a wife.
 

BreadOfLife

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Who decided that a Pope and a Priest can't have a wife.?

Paul says that this teaching of "forbidding to marry".. is a "doctrine of Devils".

It certainly would not be The Apostle Peter teaching that, as He had a wife.
The “doctrines of devils” that Paul was referring to were the doctrines of the Gnostic heretics.
Good grief - any FIRST-YEAR Theology student should know this.

He lists a few of their teachings:
1 Tim. 4:1-5
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer
.

- The Gnostics forbade ALL to marry.
- They rejected ALL material wealth.
- They rejected certain foods, etc.

As for celibacy for those wishing to serve God
In 1 Cor. 7, Paul actually recommends celibacy for those who are capable of it:
1 Cor. 7:8-9
“To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.”


It’s only out of temptation to immorality that Paul teaches about each man and woman having a spouse and giving each other their conjugal rights. He emphatically states:
1 Cor. 6:7
“I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that ALL were as I myself am (celibate).”


He goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage:
1 Cor. 7:27-34
“Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband.”


Finally – he says:
1 Cor. 7:38
“He who marries “does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do BETTER.”


So much for your Scripturally-bankrupt objections to celibacy . . .
 

amigo de christo

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Its house cleaning time . To every catholic that is still alive i am forced to have to volunteer myself as a pope
so as i can clean that house up . So write the vatican and let them know its time to put me into office .
Though i desire not the office at all , just that its time to clean house .
 

Behold

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The “doctrines of devils” that Paul was referring to were the doctrines of the Gnostic heretics.
So much for your Scripturally-bankrupt objections to celibacy . . .

Paul said that "forbidding to marry, is a doctrine of Devils", and "peter had a wife".

So, i can understand why you would ignore all that and try to dodge it with your arrogant behavior.
However, Paul said the truth, and you didnt.
Peter was married and forbidding to marry, which is a "cult of Mary" doctrine, is a doctrine of Devils", according to Paul and the New Testament.

You are welcome to face this reality, or you can continue to just post random nothing to try to hide the CC's guilt.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Paul said that "forbidding to marry, is a doctrine of Devils", and "peter had a wife".

So, i can understand why you would ignore all that and try to dodge it with your arrogant behavior.
However, Paul said the truth, and you didnt.
Peter was married and forbidding to marry, which is a "cult of Mary" doctrine, is a doctrine of Devils", according to Paul and the New Testament.

You are welcome to fact this reality, or you can continue to just post random nothing to try to hide the CC's guilt.
And sooooo, you simply ignore the words of Paul so you can continue your campaign of idiocy and hatred.

I gave you several examples of how Paul ENDORSED the idea of celibacy as a more excellent way to serve God – and you FAILED to address this fact. And since you can’t address it – you’ve LOST this debate.

You have just joined the ranks of your oxygen-deprived partner, Amigo . . .
 

Friends of Jesus

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Its house cleaning time . To every catholic that is still alive i am forced to have to volunteer myself as a pope
so as i can clean that house up . So write the vatican and let them know its time to put me into office .
Though i desire not the office at all , just that its time to clean house .


I think you will do a good job, my friend.
 

BeyondET

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2 questions:
1. Which
Catholic Traditions have “changed considerably”?
2
WHERE did Protestants get their OT Canon of Scripture?

They been changing rules for some time, the latest major change was 1962-65 dubbed the vatican II.

Don't know much about Protestants are they another similar denomination of catholic?