Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing its fruit
suggests to me that we could at least contemplate that as a possibility, and imo for whatever reason God seems to even prefer muddles in a sense. Also God is again put in the position of choice here, just like back at the ToK, when imo the choice is ours, not God's? And practically speaking don't we do the same? At least quite often?
I'm sorry, but you honestly think that it's
worth considering that God comes at human history like a chose your own adventure novel? So...Adam and Eve eat the fruit, and God goes...Dang! Huh...let's see; at this junction, I could send 'em both to hell immediately, or, you know, I could draw it out a little longer by tossing them out into the world and see how they go. Not sure how it will go, no doubt I'll need to keep choosing different paths, but hey, it might be fun, and who knows where we might end up!
That's a choose your own adventure. And if you think God does anything like that...well, you must believe in a very little god. The God of the bible is all knowing. He exists outside of time, and is therefore IN every time. The verse you quote above, is God telling a people who live in time, what will happen as a consequence of an action they took...or didn't take.
And, so what if
we come at life like an adventure novel? So what if we pick a random path and hope for the best?
We are human. The choices we make, and the 'future' we see are based on nothing more than what history and our limited wisdom has shown us. To try and link our choices to God's choices is rather...ludicrous.
no, but i am saying that "here, have a skin then" does not seem to reflect an angry or even anguished Father, as was forwarded
Likewise, we could conclude, perhaps, that God asking "where are you", or "what have you done?" to mean that he had no idea. We know otherwise, though, don't we? He knew very well where they were, and very well what they had done. Likewise he already knew of the sin, the fall. And when you know such things in advance, you have time to hide your emotions. Of course, we're still just talking about human reactions here. And you're still trying to base your reasoning on human responses. Why do you expect, or need, God to be wailing?
i can't for sure by any means, but imo God, Grieving is the personification that i was just being accused of earlier, more or less? Plus it doesn't fit very well with a gardener, pruning, at least to me. Imo this is the product of our Codependence, not God's nature. From God's pov it would have to at least be mixed with "hey, don't sin and you won't have pain."
Not sure what you mean by 'grieving is the personification', sorry. But...how does God's grieving over sin not fit with 'pruning'? Again, you display a lack of biblical awareness of who God is. God is not JUST a gardener who prunes. A gardener cares for their garden, do they not? Why do they prune? To see beautiful new growth in the plant. God's nature is as much loving as it is just. So if you believe he is saying "sin equals pain, so don't do it", you are missing the part that loves us enough to hurt every time we do fall down and are hurt by it. Again, the parent analogy helps. You can tell your kid touching the flame will hurt, so don't. It takes a 'special' sort of parent to not care if they ignore you and touch it and are hurt. No, we rush to them, kiss them, love them, and help them. We share their pain.
And co dependence? I'm not sure if you're using this word as a positive or negative here. Usually when used in this sort of context it's bad. But when talking of God...? Of course we have co dependence with him. We are supposed to be "in Christ". I don't suppose it gets more 'co dependence' than that, does it? And this is something God demands from us, and when we become his children in this manner, then it's also ludicrous to think he wouldn't grieve with us.
God creates evil, too, and imo one will postulate a God at odds with Himself on that path. Just carrying it out to its conclusions maybe reveals more; does God also "grieve" at satan? Then why did He create him? If you are omnipotent is it even possible to create something that you will be sorry you created later? And yes i'm aware of the vv, but i suggest they are meant to reflect the poor choices of the men, not the state of mind of God
And yet you seem all to willing to suggest at the state of God's mind, regardless of the vv. You take the God of the Universe, outside of time, space or knowing, yet you limit him to your cognitive powers, ignoring, seemingly, the only source that lets us glimpse at the real him. Do you not see the folly here?
but i thot God knew the end from the beginning
Are you a puppet dancing on strings? No. God knows all outcomes, even controls all outcomes. But a will completely controlled is not worth as much as one that willingly comes to you in love and surrender, is it? It is that beautiful paradox that sees election being firm from before the earth was formed, and yet having you make that conscious, active decision to love God and follow him. We may never fully understand it, just as we may never fully understand the Trinity. But the bible surely teaches it.
So, yes...Adam and Eve had a choice in the garden, and they chose wrong.
dark time in human history, hmm. We live in a miracle, anyone reading this, and i suspect the PTB cannot really understand why we have not risen en masse against them yet, nor why crime is going down in every area. dang, i'm late for work! later
Sure, the darkness may not touch where you or I live very much, but turn on the news. How many children are sold into prostitution in Asian countries? How many refugees are currently homeless at present? How many go hungry daily? How many people are murdered daily? Wars, natural disasters, diseases? Life is somewhat idyllic for you and I. But for the majority of those on this planet, life is hard, and that's only those alive at present. When you look back down the corridors of history, the cries of those hurting is nearly overwhelming. The sorrow that the garden caused cannot be ignored.
