Endless Pet Doctrines

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bbyrd009

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Again, the parent analogy helps. You can tell your kid touching the flame will hurt, so don't. It takes a 'special' sort of parent to not care if they ignore you and touch it and are hurt. No, we rush to them, kiss them, love them, and help them. We share their pain.
"Honey, we're killing the kids," but i don't mean to imply that God does not care Naomi, not at all. Just that He is not codependent like we now are. No offense, but if your scenario there were played out in much of the world you would be considered insane, believe it or not; i'll try and find a decent illustration. As you pointed out earlier, This Ain't No Party, Naomi. "When that day comes, I will not hear your prayers" is not a joke
 

bbyrd009

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And co dependence? I'm not sure if you're using this word as a positive or negative here. Usually when used in this sort of context it's bad. But when talking of God...? Of course we have co dependence with him. We are supposed to be "in Christ". I don't suppose it gets more 'co dependence' than that, does it? And this is something God demands from us, and when we become his children in this manner, then it's also ludicrous to think he wouldn't grieve with us.
well i am not talking of God when i mention Coda, but you make good points here imo! "I will not hear your prayers in that day" suggests backing off the "ludicrous" a bit, to me, but hey thank God for ppl who disagree :)
yes, we are codependent upon God i guess, in a sense anyway

but i wonder if God does not wish us to become more interdependent on Him, too
And this is something God demands from us, and when we become his children in this manner, then it's also ludicrous to think he wouldn't grieve with us.
"I will not hear your prayers in that day"
 
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bbyrd009

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How many children are sold into prostitution in Asian countries?
how short a time ago was it that that was accepted practice, Naomi? By your own ancestors, toward the Aborigines? At least it is condemned now, yes? Publically i mean. Huge progress imo
How many refugees are currently homeless at present?
the Son of Man has no place to lay His head, and God can take care of them too i guess Naomi
How many go hungry daily?
all the ones that we don't feed i guess, apparently hugely less than even just 100 years or so ago though...wow, i guess even 50 years ago, hmm
How many people are murdered daily?
sharply down in long-term trends also
Life is somewhat idyllic for you and I.
ah, you might be surprised there, i dunno, i mean i get you well enough, but i don't live that life much anymore Naomi
i'm pretty much at the center of a storm, in a sense anyway
But for the majority of those on this planet, life is hard, and that's only those alive at present. When you look back down the corridors of history, the cries of those hurting is nearly overwhelming. The sorrow that the garden caused cannot be ignored.
not disagreeing, but the progress should not be ignored either imo. The cries of those hurting should be directed toward God imo, Who can deliver them if they call; unless they choose to stick with their king of course. So wadr i don't see how this peering in can do anything but present a false dichotomy, like the MSM does.

Aren't we supposed to be the ones declaring the Good News?
 

Taken

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So, i am still going to talk about my pet topic, which is loving others. It is interesting to watch others and myself confront and live with the reality of love.

1. I do not not want to love others - it is hard. I watch others struggle with this too. It is interesting the lengths we will go to in order to avoid it. All the doctrines, theology, dogma, ridiculously long sermons on genealogies and histories of dead people, liturgy, blah, blah.

We even imitate Luther and run away from all the bs by renoucing church completely - as if it is keeping us from a true relationship with Christ.......all it actually does is isolate us from the Body of Christ and limits our spiritual growth by limiting the people most in need of love a fellowship.

2. Approaching love like a dieter navigating healthy food is another avoidance tactic. Substituting a later helping of ice cream because you skipped a high calorie lunch.....substituting an obsession with the Bible and calling it love....

3. Here’s a new one.....honestly, i have never seen such boldness. Renouncing love as a weakness and proclaiming hatred for whomever you feel like hating - while calling yourself a Christian! Redefining the word ‘believe’ to simply mean ‘knowing of’ and possibly admiring, applying it to Christ and calling it good. Of course this requires us to ignore Jesus when he reminds us that even the demons know who God is and shudder.....

True spiritual growth requires the disciple to love others even when it is hard because we need the practice. Loving others is what we were created to do, but it has been warped into narcissistic self love, which is toxic. We are justified by Christ’s love sacrifice on the Cross and we are called to pick up our cross and follow Him by loving others through sacrifice and aervice. All this practice, submiting to the Holy Spirit and putting love into practice is the Good News.

I believe we were created in God’s image - God is Love - we are called to be love, once again. Practicing love is a spiritual discipline, necessay for us to come home like the prodical sons and daughters we are. Thankfully, when we are completely transformed, love will no longer feel like a burden - we will be naturals

Comments?

I think most people Do recognize what the term Love means in the Carnal sense...

But Do Not recognize what the term Love means in the Spiritual sense....

God Bless,
Taken
 
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VictoryinJesus

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i think you are correct there, yes. Now God may have indeed sent Christ, and being omnipotent He would have also known what was going to happen, but God did not require a Sacrifice to make us acceptable to Him, except for the Living Sacrifice, which we must all follow i guess, right.

"I picked up your cross, so all you have to do is believe in/worship Me" is not in There iow

Worship: to do what you were created to do. Is that not to worship God? "To adore": Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. (John 6:68)
I'm sorry...no it is not clear. 1 Corinthians 15:12-1412But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

Our boast is in the Lord, not in what man can do. The word is flesh, and remains so until it becomes alive to a person. Then the word is resurrected in power; alive/new/heavenly. To a person void of the Spirit of God, the word is nothing, only something they can maybe use to profit from in the temporal. For justification of sex. For justification of money. For justification of power. For justification of self. The Word(Christ) is selfless....perfect and inspired(born) of God. We can plant and quote and speak and teach...but until God gives the increase and our words become infused with the Spirit of God...our testimony(words) lie dead in the grave and profit nothing. So, no...I don't understand how you may claim(again I may misunderstand) we can bypass the Resurrected Son which is the Spirit that accomplishes all work(creation) of the Spirit (our boast is in the Lord, not in man's ability). ...o_O
 
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bbyrd009

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Yes. You don't get it because you don't understand the nature of the sacrifice Christ made. The nature of death. The nature of the death we must accept if we neglect such great salvation. A death without hope. Christ died the second death because of the sin laid upon Him . Our sin. That death was such that Christ agonised in Gethsemane, but willing to place himself in His Father's care. A death nevertheless that could not see beyond the cross. Yes, previously Jesus spoke of the resurrection, he had faith in the word of his Father that he would not see corruption. But when it sin was placed upon him and the Father hidden from His sight and His presence withdrawn, Jesus truly felt forsaken. Yet he voluntarily did anyway, believing eternal life for himself without is was not worth saving himself for.
i understand that this is what pretty much everyone believes and is taught bl, but again i'm no longer buying it wadr. It is full of big holes, and does not hold up under cross examination. We accept the story bc it makes sense to us, but there is another way to read those vv, is about the best way i could relate it.

Jesus knew that He was going to His death, and aside from some possibly momentary angst bc of His human side--for our benefit, iow, to speak to our sensibilities, the same reason God is personified in Scripture imo--which is even doubtful iow, there was no anguish or suffering by the One; it is we who anguish and suffer.
 
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bbyrd009

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It isn't the blood per se, it is the life that is in the blood. We are saved by his blood specifically we are saved by His life and death and resurrection.
when you pick up your cross and follow, certainly;
when you light a candle and bow--what is now deemed "worship" i guess--not so much
 

bbyrd009

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But I think prohibition was not about morality. It was merely an extension to the sixth commandment thou shalt not kill. Like speeding laws.
God save us from people doing works of the law i guess, huh?
Of course it actually resulted in turf wars and bloodbaths so frequent that entire lecture series are given on the subject
 

bbyrd009

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If your son became a worm to save worms, and would always remain a worm, despite having a close intimate relationship with his father still, would you not think that was of great personal cost?
um, yikes? imo the meaning of "worm" is being changed there bl, you are not a worm to God at all, ok? Even when you worm. You are even called to become elohim bl, as One as They are, wadr
 
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bbyrd009

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1 Corinthians 15:12-1412But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
and when did you die, ViJ? When were you resurrected? See, the language of the Cult of Sol is being employed in a different manner to hide wisdom from the wise, while at the same time speak to those who have been baptised and understand what that ritual signifies
imo
Our boast is in the Lord, not in what man can do. The word is flesh, and remains so until it becomes alive to a person. Then the word is resurrected in power; alive/new/heavenly. To a person void of the Spirit of God, the word is nothing, only something they can maybe use to profit from in the temporal. For justification of sex. For justification of money. For justification of power. For justification of self. The Word(Christ) is selfless....perfect and inspired(born) of God. We can plant and quote and speak and teach...but until God gives the increase and our words become infused with the Spirit of God...our testimony(words) lie dead in the grave and profit nothing. So, no...I don't understand how you may claim(again I may misunderstand) we can bypass the Resurrected Son which is the Spirit that accomplishes all work(creation) of the Spirit (our boast is in the Lord, not in man's ability). ...o_O
i don't mean bypass at all, i mean follow, and stop the pointless worshipping maybe, something more like that
 

VictoryinJesus

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and when did you die, ViJ? When were you resurrected? See, the language of the Cult of Sol is being employed in a different manner to hide wisdom from the wise, while at the same time speak to those who have been baptised and understand what that ritual signifies
imo
i don't mean bypass at all, i mean follow, and stop the pointless worshipping maybe, something more like that

Baptized with fire. To go into the fire and to not quench the burning up of the stubble. To die each day. The inward man being renewed while the outward man perishes. To be Elohim ...first, doesnt His presence have to be there? Is the presence not the fire? But if the Son was not resurrected unto life, how are we?
 

bbyrd009

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Our boast is in the Lord, not in what man can do. The word is flesh, and remains so until it becomes alive to a person. Then the word is resurrected in power; alive/new/heavenly. To a person void of the Spirit of God, the word is nothing, only
i am led now to ask you if you have found the contemporary analogue for this v, ViJ?
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/jude/1-12.htm
but i'm not sure why, and i'm on the run, hopefully it might become clear later maybe
 

Nancy

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I'm sorry, but you honestly think that it's worth considering that God comes at human history like a chose your own adventure novel? So...Adam and Eve eat the fruit, and God goes...Dang! Huh...let's see; at this junction, I could send 'em both to hell immediately, or, you know, I could draw it out a little longer by tossing them out into the world and see how they go. Not sure how it will go, no doubt I'll need to keep choosing different paths, but hey, it might be fun, and who knows where we might end up!
That's a choose your own adventure. And if you think God does anything like that...well, you must believe in a very little god. The God of the bible is all knowing. He exists outside of time, and is therefore IN every time. The verse you quote above, is God telling a people who live in time, what will happen as a consequence of an action they took...or didn't take.
And, so what if we come at life like an adventure novel? So what if we pick a random path and hope for the best? We are human. The choices we make, and the 'future' we see are based on nothing more than what history and our limited wisdom has shown us. To try and link our choices to God's choices is rather...ludicrous.



Likewise, we could conclude, perhaps, that God asking "where are you", or "what have you done?" to mean that he had no idea. We know otherwise, though, don't we? He knew very well where they were, and very well what they had done. Likewise he already knew of the sin, the fall. And when you know such things in advance, you have time to hide your emotions. Of course, we're still just talking about human reactions here. And you're still trying to base your reasoning on human responses. Why do you expect, or need, God to be wailing?



Not sure what you mean by 'grieving is the personification', sorry. But...how does God's grieving over sin not fit with 'pruning'? Again, you display a lack of biblical awareness of who God is. God is not JUST a gardener who prunes. A gardener cares for their garden, do they not? Why do they prune? To see beautiful new growth in the plant. God's nature is as much loving as it is just. So if you believe he is saying "sin equals pain, so don't do it", you are missing the part that loves us enough to hurt every time we do fall down and are hurt by it. Again, the parent analogy helps. You can tell your kid touching the flame will hurt, so don't. It takes a 'special' sort of parent to not care if they ignore you and touch it and are hurt. No, we rush to them, kiss them, love them, and help them. We share their pain.
And co dependence? I'm not sure if you're using this word as a positive or negative here. Usually when used in this sort of context it's bad. But when talking of God...? Of course we have co dependence with him. We are supposed to be "in Christ". I don't suppose it gets more 'co dependence' than that, does it? And this is something God demands from us, and when we become his children in this manner, then it's also ludicrous to think he wouldn't grieve with us.



And yet you seem all to willing to suggest at the state of God's mind, regardless of the vv. You take the God of the Universe, outside of time, space or knowing, yet you limit him to your cognitive powers, ignoring, seemingly, the only source that lets us glimpse at the real him. Do you not see the folly here?


Are you a puppet dancing on strings? No. God knows all outcomes, even controls all outcomes. But a will completely controlled is not worth as much as one that willingly comes to you in love and surrender, is it? It is that beautiful paradox that sees election being firm from before the earth was formed, and yet having you make that conscious, active decision to love God and follow him. We may never fully understand it, just as we may never fully understand the Trinity. But the bible surely teaches it.
So, yes...Adam and Eve had a choice in the garden, and they chose wrong.



Sure, the darkness may not touch where you or I live very much, but turn on the news. How many children are sold into prostitution in Asian countries? How many refugees are currently homeless at present? How many go hungry daily? How many people are murdered daily? Wars, natural disasters, diseases? Life is somewhat idyllic for you and I. But for the majority of those on this planet, life is hard, and that's only those alive at present. When you look back down the corridors of history, the cries of those hurting is nearly overwhelming. The sorrow that the garden caused cannot be ignored.

Awesome post @Naomi25
BTW-this gal is totally co-dependent on Him :)
 

aspen

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I think ive looked up ‘wadr’’ at least 5 times and i still cant remember what it means. Then, after looking it up, i realize ignoring acronyms is always a good bet (agb), because it using stands for unnecessary phrases.
 
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