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Enough is enough!

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by Pearl, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Would never happen, FB, as both religions are seeking to convert the other, and I don't see either as shying away from doing so. And persecution has always been a part of true Christianity since the beginning. No getting away from the fact that "all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." As Paul said to the Thessalonians, "you know that we are appointed unto these things," i.e. as followers of Christ, who Himself was crucified.
     
  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I assumed that as well, which is why I was bringing up a nationally recognized holiday. Like I was saying, if Ramadan were a nationally recognized holiday in the country (as it is in Muslim countries), I wouldn't think a small Christian minority should have the right to cry foul and demand that they change their public observances just because it happened to offend their beliefs in some way. I don't think they should even complain about it, frankly. They are not the majority, and therefore not in a position to be demanding that a tradition kept in the nation for centuries should all of a sudden to altered to fit their demands.
    Well yes : ) but Muslims are going to do so anyway regardless, or at least that has been their pattern. The way I see it, it is simply standing ground to observe Christian customs in the public arena, which if we relinquish, would be in essence saying that we are ashamed of proclaiming our beliefs publicly.

    But I do think our rights should be defended respectfully... and most certainly not hypocritically. If we are going to demand the right to do so in public then we had best also be doing within our own walls.
    Oh good heavens, LoL. Not sure I even want to click on that link. If Islam isn't safe from it, no one is.
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes. But maybe that's because many Christians are still trapped inside the enemy's kingdom, and have been "taken captive by him so as to do his will."
     
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  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! And that coming from someone who actually lives there. I don't think the situation was really a big problem that needed "fixing" to start with, and the fact that the teacher is messing with it is just stirring a hornet's nest. But there's still no need for taking to the streets with pitch forks, on either side really. Leave the thing Christian and let the Muslims abstain from letting their kids attend. If she wants, have a Ramadan celebration next year as well (boy what fun), and let the Christian kids stay home, but those curious can give it a look see. What's the big deal?

    It only becomes a big deal when one group starts infringing upon the other's religious observances, and that's what this teacher apparently thought was such a great idea. :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    the wheat and the tares has to grow together . we have allowed much of the tares to take over . where is the spirit of CONVICTION ? we been warned we been showed how to discern true from fake .. they say the secret service when studying and learning how to discover fake money.. they study the real thing. paul wrote Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

    honestly i dont see many saying enough is enough i see those saying more and more like when my wife makes a batch of Good chili . it's a race to see who gets the last bowl :eek: until we stop and wake up we will continue to be tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
     
  6. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    Pearl comes from the U.K as well - I just have an enquistive mind and like to find the context of things.
    The link was to a ' britainfirst ' group, which had me a little concerned as we have some groups over here that are really racist - but this one was ok. It's only the fact that they have added an emphasis on Muslims complaining that bothered me. I decided to delve a little bit deeper to find out what motivated the action.
    Rita
     
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  7. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Actually -- and it surprised me somewhat -- the carols in question were not traditional ones but new ones.

    SEND A COMPLAINT: School in Essex changes words in Christian hymn to appease Muslims!

    Youngsters at Whitehall Primary School in Chingford, Essex, have been told to sing edited versions of two modern Christian hymns when they attend a carol service and nativity play at a nearby church.
     
  8. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I guess we disagree. I do not think a Christian minority in a Muslim country should have their children forced to listen to religious talks or songs that they disagree with in public schools paid for by tax money. I wouldn't want that for Christian children, so I apply the Golden Rule and think Muslims should be treated the same way.
     
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  9. stredaleve

    stredaleve Well-Known Member

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    aren't tired of all of these? cause i am even just a temporary solution... these are just frustrating i am so tired of all of these unwatched
     
  10. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you if it were indeed a situation where children of a different faith were being forced to listen, and especially participate. But as Pearl and Rita were saying, this is actually a situation where the Muslim kids were not forced and didn't have to attend. The only thing that was apparently being forced was that the lyrics of the carols were being changed to accommodate Islamic belief.

    But I do agree with applying the golden rule to how we treat people of other faiths. Trying to force them to observe our own would only drive them away.
     
  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    It can be frustrating, yes. But you have to not let it overcome the Spirit of joy that presides within you : )

    If I were you, I would treat it like I do with politics. If what I am seeing on TV frustrates me too much, I just turn it off, or turn the channel and watch something else instead. In other words, to keep my peace, I stay away from watching the news for a while.
     
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  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I checked another report about it at the Daily Mail which said about 60 students had not attended the event last year. The lyrics got changed this year so the Muslim children wouldn't feel excluded. Many Muslims do like to celebrate Christmas. I see nothing wrong with accommodating them.

    Fury as primary school tells pupils to say 'Baby Boy Jesus' instead of 'Lord Jesus' | Daily Mail Online

    The mother said her two sons, aged nine and 11 and who go to church and Sunday school, were very upset when Whitehall head teacher Zakia Khatun announced that the words of the carols would be changed.

    She said: 'My kids are being stopped from having the freedom to express their beliefs. They are shocked.'

    The mother claimed that at a meeting on Friday, Ms Khatun defended her decision, insisting the school is inclusive of all children, and maintained that last year 60 children did not attend the carol service and nativity at St Peter and St Paul Church in Chingford because of their religious beliefs.

    But the mother believes the school is now discriminating against Christian pupils and has been told other parents are unhappy too.

    She said: 'We live in a multicultural society, so we should respect other beliefs but unfortunately Christianity is not getting respect.

    My thoughts are drawn now to Syria. I lost track of my Christian friend there; but here is a video of Christmas music from Syrian Television from 2009 before the violence turned the country upside down. Can you believe how tolerant they were there, for a Muslim country to air this on national television? If they could find a way to celebrate Christmas without offending anyone, surely the Americans and British can too.


    I tend to ignore any information source that seems to want to spark outrage in me. I suspect they're trying to play on my emotions. I see it on the left and on the right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  13. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    In 1786, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson met with Arab diplomats from Tunisia, who were conducting terror raids and piracy against American ships (Barbary Pirates).

    Quote from a letter written By Thomas Jefferson to John Jay.

    “We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. THE AMBASSADOR ANSWERED US THAT IT WAS FOUNDED ON THE LAWS OF THEIR PROPHET, THAT IT WAS WRITTEN IN THEIR KORAN, THAT ALL NATIONS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR AUTHORITY WERE SINNERS, THAT IT WAS THEIR RIGHT AND DUTY TO MAKE WAR UPON THEM WHEREVER THEY COULD BE FOUND, AND TO MAKE SLAVES OF ALL THEY COULD TAKE AS PRISONERS, AND THAT EVERY MUSSELMAN (MUSLIM) WHO SHOULD BE SLAIN IN BATTLE WAS SURE TO GO TO PARADISE".

    2016. Mosque Baltimore, Maryland, USA

    Quote from guest speaker...B.Obama

    "Islam has always been a part of America".

    "And so often, we focus on our outward differences and we forget how much we share. Christians, Jews, Muslims -- we’re all, under our faiths, descendants of Abraham."

    Christian Scripture teaches some are descendants of Abram.
    Some are descendants of Abraham.
    And some have to take upon them the seed of Abraham & Issac to be Abraham's descendant...

    Oh well, Obama's speech didn't note him making any Biblical quotes...unlike some Qur'an quotes he offered in his speech.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I guess we're just coming at it from opposite angles. My personal belief is that Islam's ultimate goal is going to be to "Muslimize" (to coin a term rather terribly, LoL) the other religions of the world, including Christianity, so I tend to react negatively when I see compromise taking place on the Christian side.

    But understand, I see most things through what you might call a prophetic lens, and regarding Islam I see them as ultimately telling those who believe Jesus to be the Only Begotten Son of God that they have been deceived, and that only Islam portrays Jesus as He truly was; a godly man, but only a prophet. I also believe Islam is the religion thru which the Antichrist is eventually going to arise, and that thru the coming Mahdi the Islamic caliphate is eventually going to attempt to exterminate all who do not honor the Islamic interpretation of things.

    So I suppose this is why I take a harder line. If I didn't have these views, I think I would view the issue with more tolerance maybe.
     
  15. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    james wrote
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

    24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was... question what are we doing ? i see a lot oF POST a lot of opinions. but not much action we talk a good talk but do we walk it . we have allowed the enemy to come in with free reign
     
  16. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Muslims believe Jesus was the Messiah. They also believe in the Virgin Birth. They do not, however, concur with the idea of "a begotten" son. I don't know myself if "begotten" is the right word. It is a somewhat strange term that almost implies God could have sex with a woman.

    And the phrase "only begotten son" is not a very good translation of the original Greek "monogenes". It probably should read "only" -- the way Isaac was described as the "only son."

    Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    The KJV mangles a verse in Hebrews where "monogenes" is used about Isaac.

    Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    Why it got translated that way is a mystery since Abraham had two sons who were "begotten" sexually. Then we find that "monogenes" most certainly didn't get translated as "only begotten" when talking about an only son of a woman.

    Luk 7:12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.

    The Quran states that religion should not be a matter of compulsion, that Jews and Christians should be tolerated and allowed to worship as they want.
     
  17. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    I am wondering if that friend was Karim ( forum name - think that was the name ) I remember being on a forum with someone from Syria, something happened to the forum and it could not continue, we lost contact with him - he was such an inspiration and his posts were always interesting to read.
    I am sure you were part of that forum at the time
    Rita
     
  18. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Agree Rita...He tried to join "Living Water" but had so much login problems he gave up.
    Yes, he used to post quite a bit on LGO Kerry's site....he had problems with getting a signal ...I think he had to use a car battery to power his computer or something.. He was in the very thick of the trouble.

    I remember him once saying that years ago everything was peaceful , Jew and Gentile got on. "Christmas" was celebrated openly...but then Obama said they came there to "help" ...after they came , nothing was ever peaceful again.
    He was a nice gentle man...I too enjoyed his posts.
     
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  19. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    Yes, we often seem to think that we are the peacemakers, the heroes, the rescuers, but it's not always the case. The west is very good at ' interfering ' and create a much bigger problem.
    Rita
     
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  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are right. I miss hearing from him.
     
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