Ephesians 3. Paul vs The Other Apostles & Prophets

[Davy]

Do you disagree with the timeline chart I posted?

According to Acts 13, when Paul (Saul) was in Antioch, that is when The Holy Spirit said to the Church at Antioch to separate Barnabas and Saul (Paul) for the ministry. Then Paul's ministry began in the following order...

1st Journey:
Seleucia;
Cyprus, Salamis;
Paphos;
Perga in Pamphylia;
Antioch in Pisidia;
Iconium;
Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lyconia (Paul stoned in Lystra, start of Church of Galatians);
Derbe (Paul and Barnabas escape to Derbe from Lystra);
Lystra, Iconium, Antioch (return);
Thru Pisidia to Pamphylia;
Perga;
Attalia;
Antioch;

2 Journey:
Jerusalem, Samaria to settle the dispute of Acts 15:1-4;
Antioch;
Syria and Celicia with Silas instead of Barnabas;
Derbe and Lystra;
Phrygia and Galatia'
Mysia;
Troas;
Samothracia and Neapolis;
Philippi in Macedonia;
Apollonia;
Thessalonica;
Berea;
Athens;
Corinth;
Syria;
Ephesus;
Caesarea;
Jerusalem;
Damascus;
Antioch

One can see that Paul did not convert Churches further west from his 1st journey until his 2nd journey.

See A Breakdown of Paul's Four Missionary Journeys

 

[TEXBOW]

Yes, but Paul's 3 years in the Arabian desert (Petra, location of King Aretas) before returning to Damascus was before his first mission. His return to Damascus was met by opposition and the governor under King Aretas was going to arrest him but Paul was let down in a basket and escaped. All of that took place before his 1st trip to Jerusalem. In Acts, Luke was not all-inclusive about Paul's experiences and we learn more in Galatians and other Epistles written by Paul. It still looks to me that Paul received his knowledge and ministry from Christ during those 3 years in Arabia. He no doubt did something to fall in disfavor with King Aretas while in Arabia. The question remains did the 12 Apostles receive the mystery of the Gentiles being co-heirs, grafted in from the Holy Spirit while Paul was being taught by Christ in the desert or afterward? It's not a question of doctrine but it would explain how and why Acts 2:38 and Romans 10:9-11 are slightly different.

 

[Davy]

Yes, but Paul's 3 years in the Arabian desert (Petra, location of King Aretas) before returning to Damascus was before his first mission.

I don't know where you're getting that idea from, because in Acts 9 we are shown that Saul (Paul) remained at Damascus after his conversion and baptism, and then preached Christ in the Jewish synagogues there, and was there "many days", until the unbelieving Jews tried to kill him. And then he fled to Jerusalem. There is nothing written there about any trips in the Arabian desert. So where are you getting that idea from?

 

[Stumpmaster]

I don't know where you're getting that idea from, because in Acts 9 we are shown that Saul (Paul) remained at Damascus after his conversion and baptism, and then preached Christ in the Jewish synagogues there, and was there "many days", until the unbelieving Jews tried to kill him. And then he fled to Jerusalem. There is nothing written there about any trips in the Arabian desert. So where are you getting that idea from?

It's in Galatians 1:17

Gal 1:11-24 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. (13) For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. (14) And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. (15) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, (16) to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, (17) nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. (18) Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. (19) But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother. (20) (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.) (21) Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. (22) And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. (23) But they were hearing only, "He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy." (24) And they glorified God in me.

 

[Davy]

It's in Galatians 1:17

Gal 1:11-24 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. (13) For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. (14) And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. (15) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, (16) to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, (17) nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. (18) Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. (19) But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother. (20) (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.) (21) Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. (22) And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. (23) But they were hearing only, "He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy." (24) And they glorified God in me.

OK, where in Arabia? And this still does 'produce' a different Gospel than what Jesus or His first Apostles preached, nor what Paul first preached to both Jews and Gentiles in the synagogues of Damascus.

 

[TEXBOW]

OK, where in Arabia? And this still does 'produce' a different Gospel than what Jesus or His first Apostles preached, nor what Paul first preached to both Jews and Gentiles in the synagogues of Damascus.

King Aretas was in Petra and many think that Paul would have been there for some period of time during those 3 years. I've never said there was a different Gospel but we know that changes happened after the revelation. Taking the Gospel to the Gentiles was a big big deal and getting the Apostles in one accord on this matter prompted the Jerusalem meeting. There was debate on circumcision and other matters of Gentiles and what laws if any they had to follow to be heirs. It's easy to see that the law or no law was a big topic as Paul covered this ground several times in his epistles. There was a process of getting everyone on the same page concerning the salvation of the Gentiles. That does not translate into two different Gospels. Faith is the only thing that has saved anyone since Abraham. I think if people would stop trying to divide the word based upon the Old Testament vs. New Testament and instead look at Before the Cross and After the Cross things would be more clear. Reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and understanding they were before the cross allows us to understand things a little better IMHO. There was a reason Jesus told the Apostles to preach only to the Jews and not the Gentiles but to have Jesus tell them later to take the Gospel to the World. The Cross is key. God's saving grace and salvation by faith (belief) was always there.

 

[Stumpmaster]

OK, where in Arabia? And this still does 'produce' a different Gospel than what Jesus or His first Apostles preached, nor what Paul first preached to both Jews and Gentiles in the synagogues of Damascus.

I don't think I can improve of the article at this link Why, when, and for how long was the apostle Paul in Arabia? | GotQuestions.org

 

[TEXBOW]

I don't think I can improve of the article at this link Why, when, and for how long was the apostle Paul in Arabia? | GotQuestions.org

If I'm not mistaken I think other writings (non-scripture) place King Aretas residing in Petra which is in modern Jordan today. Some theologians think that during that 3 year period Paul was preaching the Gospel in Petra and surrounding areas and of course being ministered to by Christ. It is assumed that Paul's preaching didn't sit well with King Aretas and that had something to do with the Governor under the King in Damascus wanting to arrest Paul. This would not be inconsistent with the later experiences of Paul.
The question is that while Paul was in Arabia what were the 12 Apostles preaching? When did the Holy Spirit reveal salvation to the Gentiles in this timeline? The Angel telling Peter to go to the house of Cornelius, was it while Paul was in Arabia or after he returned? Did Paul receive the revelation from Christ before the 12 knew? It seems possible given that Peter was puzzled and hesitant in going into Cornelius's house to preach him the Gospel. If the Holy Spirit had revealed to the 12 about the Gentiles I would think Peter would have been not as perplexed and concerned as he was by evidence in his confession to the other Apostles in Jerusalem, so much so that he took witnesses. Either way, I think it was by divine reasoning and authority.