Ephesians 3. Paul vs The Other Apostles & Prophets

[TEXBOW]

In Ephesians 3 Paul tells us that Jesus reveled the mystery to himself and the Holy Spirit reveled it to the Apostles and Prophets. Was that revelation made by Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same exact time? Many believe that Paul was first in knowing of the mystery but is that validated in scripture? Did Jesus give Paul a head-start in that knowledge?

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

 

[Charlie24]

In Ephesians 3 Paul tells us that Jesus reveled the mystery to himself and the Holy Spirit reveled it to the Apostles and Prophets. Was that revelation made by Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same exact time? Many believe that Paul was first in knowing of the mystery but is that validated in scripture? Did Jesus give Paul a head-start in that knowledge?

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

By the time of the Council at Jerusalem, where the apostles were to determine what to do about the Gentiles being saved, should they observe the Law as the Jews or not, Paul had already been on his first missionary journey to the Gentiles. He was already preaching the meaning of the New Covenant, the Mystery. Paul was light-years ahead of the apostles at Jerusalem in this knowledge.

 

[TEXBOW]

By the time of the Council at Jerusalem, where the apostles were to determine what to do about the Gentiles being saved, should they observe the Law as the Jews or not, Paul had already been on his first missionary journey to the Gentiles. He was already preaching the meaning of the New Covenant, the Mystery. Paul was light-years ahead of the apostles at Jerusalem in this knowledge.

He was certainly ahead in Administration of the revelation. We know that it was a very difficult transition for the Jew's to accept salvation by faith without works (law) in addition to the Gentiles being heirs.

 

[Charlie24]

He was certainly ahead in Administration of the revelation. We know that it was a very difficult transition for the Jew's to accept salvation by faith without works (law) in addition to the Gentiles being heirs.

I'll go as far to say the 12 apostles learned most of the meaning of the New Covenant from Paul. Through listening to him in personal conversation and reading his epistles.

 

[TEXBOW]

I'll go as far to say the 12 apostles learned most of the meaning of the New Covenant from Paul. Through listening to him in personal conversation and reading his epistles.

I'm not sure we can confirm that the 12 had copies of Pauls epistles. The only way they could have was for them to go to the churches Paul planted. Not impossible but if they were still under the pre-revelation commission to the Jews only I'm not sure they would be in that situation. It would be interesting to know the timeline and distribution of the New Testament letters and manuscripts among the Apostles. We know that the manuscripts were not combined until many years after the Apostles had died.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not sure we can confirm that the 12 had copies of Pauls epistles. The only way they could have was for them to go to the churches Paul planted. Not impossible but if they were still under the pre-revelation commission to the Jews only I'm not sure they would be in that situation. It would be interesting to know the timeline and distribution of the New Testament letters and manuscripts among the Apostles. We know that the manuscripts were not combined until many years after the Apostles had died.

We know that Peter had access to Paul's epistles, he mentions them in his own 2nd epistle. If Peter had access I would think the others did also.

 

[Enoch111]

Did Jesus give Paul a head-start in that knowledge?

Not a "head start" necessarily. But Paul is in fact the one to whom the Mystery of the Church was revealed. Peter -- being a strict Jew -- had a very hard time accepting the fact that Gentiles would be included within the Church. But once he accepted that fact, he did not hesitate to include them in the house of Cornelius. Even so, later on he was in two minds about the status of the Gentiles and Paul had to correct him. But there is no "Paul vs the other apostles". They were all on the same page later.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm not sure we can confirm that the 12 had copies of Pauls epistles.

You meant "the 11". All the apostolic churches had copies of the Gospels and the epistles. So we should assume that all the apostles knew what Christ had revealed to Paul. After all they were of the original 11.

 

[TEXBOW]

You meant "the 11". All the apostolic churches had copies of the Gospels and the epistles. So we should assume that all the apostles knew what Christ had revealed to Paul. After all they were of the original 11.

Ephesians 3 tells us that the Holy Spirit reveled the mystery to the Apostles. By the time of Pauls ministry Judas had been replaced. 12 Apostles plus Paul.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 3 tells us that the Holy Spirit reveled the mystery to the Apostles. By the time of Pauls ministry Judas had been replaced. 12 Apostles plus Paul.

And Paul refers to them that way. Apparently Paul did not think of Paul as the 12th Apostle.

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

And Paul refers to them that way. Apparently Paul did not think of Paul as the 12th Apostle.

Much love!

Since Matthias was chosen to replace Judas in Acts 1:12-26 before Pauls experience at Damascus Paul could have never been considered a member of the 12 unless I'm just totally missing something here.

 

[Truth7t7]

Since Matthias was chosen to replace Judas in Acts 1:12-26 before Pauls experience at Damascus Paul could have never been considered a member of the 12 unless I'm just totally missing something here.

Acts 14:14KJV
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Romans 1:1KJV
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Tituss 1:1KJV
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

 

[marks]

Since Matthias was chosen to replace Judas in Acts 1:12-26 before Pauls experience at Damascus Paul could have never been considered a member of the 12 unless I'm just totally missing something here.

Just that not everyone accepts Matthias.

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

Just that not everyone accepts Matthias.

Much love!

I've not come across that debate. The scriptures are very clear that he joined the 11.

 

[TEXBOW]

Acts 14:14KJV
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Romans 1:1KJV
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Tituss 1:1KJV
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

I'm speaking of the original 12. Paul was certainly an Apostle but it was 12+1.

 

[marks]

I've not come across that debate. The scriptures are very clear that he joined the 11.

You may be about to . . .

 

[Tong2020]

In Ephesians 3 Paul tells us that Jesus reveled the mystery to himself and the Holy Spirit reveled it to the Apostles and Prophets. Was that revelation made by Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same exact time? Many believe that Paul was first in knowing of the mystery but is that validated in scripture? Did Jesus give Paul a head-start in that knowledge?

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

<<<In Ephesians 3 Paul tells us that Jesus reveled the mystery to himself and the Holy Spirit reveled it to the Apostles and Prophets. Was that revelation made by Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same exact time?>>>

There is no way to be certain about the time. But one thing is sure, the mystery was revealed to Paul and the other apostles.

Tong
R4822

 

[Tong2020]

By the time of the Council at Jerusalem, where the apostles were to determine what to do about the Gentiles being saved, should they observe the Law as the Jews or not, Paul had already been on his first missionary journey to the Gentiles. He was already preaching the meaning of the New Covenant, the Mystery. Paul was light-years ahead of the apostles at Jerusalem in this knowledge.

You could be right, though you could also be wrong.

cc @TEXBOW

Tong
R4823

 

[Tong2020]

Just that not everyone accepts Matthias.

Much love!

Curious. Do you or do you not?

Tong
R4824

 

[marks]

Curious. Do you or do you not?

Tong
R4824

I do. I go with what Paul said, in referring to "the twelve".

Much love!