Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It is His church not the apostles, but the apostles are still dead! the apostles are gift ministries for the maturing of the church.
Equal to Christ!
- Thread starter theefaith
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It is His church not the apostles, but the apostles are still dead! the apostles are gift ministries for the maturing of the church.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So where are the other 11 successors to the apostles on earth now???????????? and remember Jesus only appointed 12!
By the keys of jurisdictional authority!
marks of the true church:
One
Holy
Catholic
Apostolic
@Ronald Nolette What we now have is the apostolic faith once delivered to the saints (Jude), as the NT records.
Not kill but to execute justice
Treason is punishable by death and heresy is treason against God
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
thanks for the wonderful reminder found in Jude!
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
It isd not continuing to be delivered. If it were God would have inspired the passage to read like this:
..."contend for teh faith. which is being delivered to the saints."
@Ronald Nolette ....and, as Jude further says, we should 'earnestly contend' for that body of doctrine.....
I understand that’s what trinitarianism teaches. We can locate the source of the teaching in Church history. It comes to us from the Catholic Church. To believe it is to believe what the Catholic Church teaches.
Do you agree or disagree with that?
Council of Chalcedon. The doctrine of the hypostatic union.
You told me recently that you use two translations for apologetics - KJV and Wycliffe, if I’m remembering correctly.
“And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.”
(1 Chronicles 29:20, KJV)
The people are worshipping God and the king.
“Soothly David commanded to all the church, that is, (to) all the people gathered together, Bless ye the Lord our God. And all the church, that is, the people, blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and they bowed themselves, and worshipped God, and [then] afterward the king. (And David commanded to all the congregation, Bless ye the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and they bowed themselves, and worshipped God, and then the king.)”
(1 Chronicles 29:20, WYC)
The people are worshipping God and the king.
WYC uses the word “church”. Do you believe this is the Roman Catholic Church? Do you believe the people are Roman Catholics? Do you believe the people are worshipping the Trinity and the king?
Are you familiar with the concept of ideal preexistence, also known as notional preexistence?
I commented on this verse recently in another thread. I called upon my favorite Catholic scholar, Raymond E. Brown. In his book, Jesus God And Man, he has a section titled “II. TEXTS WHERE THE USE OF ‘GOD’ FOR JESUS IS DUBIOUS”. There are two subsections under this heading. The first subsection is titled “A. Passages with textual variants” and the second subsection is titled “B. Passages where obscurity arises from syntax”. Titus 2:13 is discussed in the second subsection. After discussing the syntax options, Brown concludes “It is unfortunate that that no certainty can be reached here …” (p. 18).
I would appeal to the syntax option which fits with Jewish monotheism, which seems sound to me in light of the fact (which you’ve disputed) that Jesus is a Jew (not a Roman Catholic, as you believe him to be) but you wouldn’t find it persuasive. If you’re on top of your game you would point out to me (or remind me) that there are syntax issues with the passage, and therefore I couldn’t claim with certainty that the option I think is best settles the matter.
Staying with Brown, there is a section in his book titled “TEXTS WHERE JESUS IS CLEARLY CALLED GOD”. Hebrews 1:8 is discussed in this section. He points out that the author of Hebrews is quoting Psalm 45:6-7. I agree with his conclusion that Jesus is clearly called elohim (Heb.) / theos (Gk.) / “God”.
Still staying with Brown, 2 Peter 1:1 falls under the same subheading in his book as Titus 2:13. See my comments above on Titus 2:13 concerning available options.
That aside, God has given Jesus all power and authority (28:18). He possesses, and uses, that divine power, which he has been given to him by his Father, for the purpose Peter describes in the passage.
Thank you. I made the connection from what I know about you but it was important for me to hear you say it.
Who is God to you? It’s a great question.
Who is God to theefaith? The Trinity.
Who is God to Matthias? The Father.
Who is God to Jesus?
Again, thank you.
I’ve used a quote from Father Fortman several time. He points out that the apostles weren’t trinitarians. You seem to be saying, against Fortman, that they were.
You equate that with the Roman Catholic Church. I don’t. That’s a major difference between us.
Direct apostolic succession is how we still have apostles until Christ returns in glory to crush all heresy’s!
Matt 28:19-20 Jn 20:21 acts 1:15-26
the apostles have the same authority as Christ
Christ made apostles
the apostles make apostles
There are about 3000 today the church is world wide universal
the apostles govern the church a or administer the kingdom
Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Executing justice doesn’t always involve killing.
If I’m ever put on trail for treason against the state, and if I’m found guilty, then I might very well be put to death by the state. I would, however, also point out that while death is a possible sentence for treason, it’s not the only possible sentence.
“Penalty: Under U.S. Code Title 18, the penalty is death, or not less than five years imprisonment (with a minimum fine of $10,000, if not sentenced to death.”
Treason laws in the United States - Wikipedia
I’m a citizen of the United States. If the United States government begins executing people for their faith, or even imprisons them and fines them for their faith, then the government is out of control.
Let’s go with your argument here. Your God is the Trinity. My God isn’t. It seems to me that you’re saying that the U.S. government either could or should put me on trial for heresy, find me guilty and sentence me to death for not being of the trinitarian faith. At the present time, I could easily defend myself by simply appealing to the U.S. Constitution. The day may come when I can’t. In the meantime, I’ve got nothing to worry about in regard to the matter.
Would you and / or the RCC be in favor of that happening to me?
yes it is
Delivered once to the church the apostles but they are commanded to teach all men Matt 28:19
Who is God?
You’ve made it crystal clear that you believe God is the Trinity.
In your eyes, I’m a heretic.
“Treason is punishable by death and heresy is treason against God”
Treason is punishable by death and heresy is treason against [the Trinity]
Have I made it crystal clear to you that I believe God is the Father and none other? If not, I’d like to take the opportunity to do that now. God isn’t the Trinity. God is the Father.
“Treason is punishable by death and heresy is treason against God”
Treason is punishable by death and heresy is treason against [the Father]
I want you to come away with two things from this:
1. In my eyes, you’re a heretic.
2. I’m not calling upon the state to imprison, fine, or execute you.
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