Error and Contradictions in the Bible

[FHII]

Hey FHII,

I'm really not so concerned that someone won't listen to me, but it's serious when they won't listen to GOD. But Jesus didn't argue with Judas, he simply said: “What you are about to do, do quickly.” (Ref. John 13:27)


And so each makes their own decision, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and contempt. (Ref. Daniel 12:2)

BibleScribe



To All,

Please be aware that my observation regarding this individual is not intended as judging one individual to perdition, but simply an acknowledgment that if ANYONE should decline to receive the fullness of Scripture, then they are obviously having difficulty communing with the Holy Spirit, for HE confirms the TRUTH of Scripture to GOD's children.

As such, I would strongly encourage that (or any other) individual to either break through to receive that confirmation, or live a life which is less than full, -- and possibly lacking entirely.


BibleScribe

I hear ya, Biblescribe!

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I don't really care what it says in Corinthians... Corinthians isn't my foundation... Christ is... and He said not to call anyone Teacher but Him... and Christ is my Foundation and Teacher...

I thought something similar once. But, obviously we have teachers and the Lord gives us teachers. Paul even rebuked some saying that "not all of you should be teachers". Then there's the scriptures about women teaching, and so on.

Looking here, Jesus was talking to the Apostles. We can see that the Apostles were the first Christians and were charged with spreading the Gospel. Since the wisdom and word of the Lord was given to them to spread, they had no one who could teach them. Along with this responsibility, it wasn't wise for them to go searching for wisdom and answers from others since the Gospel wasn't given to anyone but the Apostles.

With the Apostles being the leaders of the early church, it seems that the entire Gospel would be twarted if they sought the advice of those who know and have experienced less.

Kind of like asking a skateboarder how to surf.

 

[Groundzero]

Personally while there's a lot of thing's I can relate to about Paul... and his struggles... there's also some things I don't agree with him on... is that so hard to believe? I mean didn't Paul himself brag about how he rebuked Peter? Even though Peter was the first to receive the revelation of Christ? and the Holy Spirit...

Like for instance forbidding women to speak... I mean... since in Christ we are all One and there is neither male nor female... isn't it a contradiction to say we are all one in Christ and that there is neither male no female and then to go on to say women aren't allowed to speak... since we are all One in Christ... isn't He forbidding Christ to speak? Or is there male and female in Christ... because if there's not male and female in Christ... then all should speak... as the Lord gives to each one...

I don't see Paul bragging about rebuking Peter. From what I see of Paul, he was a very humble man.

Alright. I'm going to stick my head out. Don't take offence at this, ladies. I believe that Paul was referring to leadership. If a man is available, a man SHOULD be leading, because that is the way God designed it. Perhaps Robbie would have the guts to post the rest of the Scripture so we can have it in context?! Don't worry, let me help!


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This verse has NOTHING to do with the customs of the day. This verse is to do with the way God set it up. God set up the man as a leader, the woman as a follower in Genesis as a result of the Curse.

Now for the other verse. (a personal note to Robbie: If you really are lead of the Spirit, why is it that you throw up verses without using proper context? The verse numbers and chapters were man-made. God did not intend for us to take just ONE verse and make up a doctrine. The book of Galatians was a letter, WITHOUT the divisions we have. So if you want to interpret it, read it like a letter and do it some justice!!)


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It seems to be that Paul was telling us that we are all ONE family if we have put on Jesus. There is no longer a separating distinction. In some societies, there is a division between Jew and Greek, others bond and free, and others male and female. When we all belong to the same family, those divisions break down. But get this: THE POSITIONS DO NOT CHANGE! The master is still the master, the servant is still the servant. The man still has his role, the woman still has her role!

 

[Rach1370]

I don't see Paul bragging about rebuking Peter. From what I see of Paul, he was a very humble man.

Alright. I'm going to stick my head out. Don't take offence at this, ladies. I believe that Paul was referring to leadership. If a man is available, a man SHOULD be leading, because that is the way God designed it. Perhaps Robbie would have the guts to post the rest of the Scripture so we can have it in context?! Don't worry, let me help!


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This verse has NOTHING to do with the customs of the day. This verse is to do with the way God set it up. God set up the man as a leader, the woman as a follower in Genesis as a result of the Curse.

Now for the other verse. (a personal note to Robbie: If you really are lead of the Spirit, why is it that you throw up verses without using proper context? The verse numbers and chapters were man-made. God did not intend for us to take just ONE verse and make up a doctrine. The book of Galatians was a letter, WITHOUT the divisions we have. So if you want to interpret it, read it like a letter and do it some justice!!)


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It seems to be that Paul was telling us that we are all ONE family if we have put on Jesus. There is no longer a separating distinction. In some societies, there is a division between Jew and Greek, others bond and free, and others male and female. When we all belong to the same family, those divisions break down. But get this: THE POSITIONS DO NOT CHANGE! The master is still the master, the servant is still the servant. The man still has his role, the woman still has her role!

Hey Groundzero. As a lady...I have to say, I completely agree! I think feminism is a load of bull. Oh, sure, equality for women, blah, blah....but the Bible already teaches that. The Bible was teaching the equality of women long before women's lib came along, long before the Islam came along. The problem with the 'movement' today, is that women are no longer looking for equality...they are looking to take the man's role. As you say, the Bible clearly teaches differing roles for men and women...and it's perfect. Within a marriage, or within a Church, or even a society, the different roles allows a perfect meshing of tasks and support, hopefully all to the glory of God.
I believe God intended the man to be the head of the family, the woman to provide support (and lets face it, so many men need it!!), I think God made men to lead the Church, but also we are told that the older women should take on the teaching and guiding of young women. There are so many roles within the church that the women need to be doing...we shouldn't have time to worry about preaching and being boss! Boss is Jesus any way! I think that is the crucial and primary sin of women...we always want to be boss! Starting right from Eve.
And I also think that what you say about context is really important too. We see elsewhere that there are important tasks for women, but it is important for her to realise her role and submit to it. This is not a bad thing or an oppressive thing. It is a God appointed thing, and if the man follows his God appointed instructions, being submissive can be a joy, not a burden. And as women, we should always keep in mind that it is not easy for men to fulfil their 'roles'. They need support and encouragement, not mutiny within their own families and Churches!

 

[Robbie]

That's funny Whiteknuckle because I used to think something similar once to what you think now when I used to go to Calvary Chapel... so it looks like we kind of swapped places...

For me the change happened one day sitting in church when the pastor was teaching and he was reading where it says, "Eye has not seen nor ear heard the things which God has in store for those who love Him" The pastor ended it there and then when he continued reading he skipped the next part and left it at that... well I always had a bad habit of continuing to read for myself and I realized the next part said, "But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit" and I realized the pastor had basically just left out that things had changed thanks to the Holy Spirit... it was then that I started questioning whether what I had been taught at church was what the message of Christ actually was saying and it was then I started reading it for myself. And thank God I did... because there's a big difference between, "Eye has not seen nor ear heard the things which God has in store for those who love Him" and "Eye has not seen nor ear heard the things which God has in store for those who love Him but God has revealed them to us by His Spirit" I mean not recognizing the change that the Spirit that Christ sent made is a big deal as far as I'm concerned. I should note when I say he left it at that... that he continued teaching based on that... that we still didn't know the things God has in store for those who love Him.

As I continued to read I realized just how dead the teaching at Calvary Chapel was... how it was all about intellectualism and theology and pretty much never acknowledged what was made available by the Holy Spirit that Christ sent.

As I quit believing those false teachings and actually started to believe the Spirit started to work in me and the Spirit began to give me an understanding in things that were Spiritually discerned... I mean... Paul did say he was still having to talk to people like they were carnal... so maybe that's why he couldn't share with them Spiritual food... because they never could have accepted that Christ was in them and that He was teaching them... I mean He seemed to be struggling with people getting that even saying, "Don't you know that if Christ isn't in you, you're not His?"

So now I have no problem believing Jesus that He's in me and He's my only Teacher where when I went to Calvary Chapel I would have been like, "No way... God only talks to me through a book" haha... and I also have no problem agreeing with John that I have no need that anyone teach me because the anointing I've received from Christ teaches me all things... and through that relationship I abide in Christ.

As for why Paul seems to see things different... I'm not really sure... I could guess that maybe he was talking to them like they were carnal... like they were still babes in Christ... because they couldn't have accepted that Christ was in them... so they still needed to be taught by men... because the things of the Spirit would have sounded foolish to them... or maybe the teachers he was talking about actually needed to teach people that Christ was in them and they didn't need to be taught by men.

Either way I'd rather not guess... and personally I don't need to because like I said... what Jesus said makes perfect sense to me... as for Paul... I love reading Him... I can relate to him so much... especially in his struggles...

Thank God I read the bible for myself... not because my relationship with God is through the bible... but so I could see that I was being taught falsely by those who deny the direct relationship with God the Holy Spirit has made possible... those who give themselves the title of theologians but can't even hear or see what the scriptures they claim to be experts in actually say... because Christ's Word's are Spirit... and the things of the Spirit are foolishness to those who don't have it.

Anyways... that's my beliefs... and I appreciate fellowshipping with you... blessings to you....

 

[Duckybill]

... what Jesus said makes perfect sense to me... as for Paul... I love reading Him... I can relate to him so much... especially in his struggles...

You love reading Paul even though 'Paul doesn't agree with Jesus'???

Robbie wrote:

'John's in agreement with Jesus so it's all good... Paul isn't so I'm over it..'

 

[7angels]

bible scribe says
Hi 7angels,
Please note that "Robbie" cannot resolve what either is or isn't Scripture. This is evidence of an individual who is in rebellion against GOD. So do you really think you should follow his rabbit trails? Is he your "teacher", a ministry which he himself disdains? Or is this a double minded man, for which James 1:7 says is unstable in all his ways?
So I would first ask you, -- are you satisfied with the answer which Duckbill provided? And is so, then are you able to receive the answer you asked for? But even before asking this Forum, have you asked GOD? For that answer is clearly provided in Scripture.

what answer are you talking of? i follow scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

robbie says
And thanks Angel 7 for your reply... is there a place in the bible where it actually says that's why Paul said that? I've heard that same reasoning before but I've read the New Testament many times and I cant' remember Paul ever giving that explanation...
And what is your opinion about it personally? Are we all One in Christ and women have just as much right to speak as men because in Christ there is neither male or female or do you think women should keep silent because in Christ there is a difference between male and female?

the answer to to your first question is no but since we know scripture does not contradict itself we need to look at all angles. there are multiple scriptures concerning women being able to preach,teach, prophesy or whatever. a women was the first one to evangelize after Christ was resurrected(john 20:18). she told disciples which were men. she was not the only one. there are several examples of this through the word.in act 18 it talks of aquila and priscilla. Aquila and Priscilla taught apollos. a woman teaching a man. the scriptures teach that God is the same yesterday today and forever. God would not of let a women teach men things if it were wrong. so if they are not wrong then where have we misinterpreted scripture? i will expound more later i need to go. take care.

 

[Groundzero]

Hey Groundzero. As a lady...I have to say, I completely agree! I think feminism is a load of bull. Oh, sure, equality for women, blah, blah....but the Bible already teaches that. The Bible was teaching the equality of women long before women's lib came along, long before the Islam came along. The problem with the 'movement' today, is that women are no longer looking for equality...they are looking to take the man's role. As you say, the Bible clearly teaches differing roles for men and women...and it's perfect. Within a marriage, or within a Church, or even a society, the different roles allows a perfect meshing of tasks and support, hopefully all to the glory of God.
I believe God intended the man to be the head of the family, the woman to provide support (and lets face it, so many men need it!!), I think God made men to lead the Church, but also we are told that the older women should take on the teaching and guiding of young women. There are so many roles within the church that the women need to be doing...we shouldn't have time to worry about preaching and being boss! Boss is Jesus any way! I think that is the crucial and primary sin of women...we always want to be boss! Starting right from Eve.
And I also think that what you say about context is really important too. We see elsewhere that there are important tasks for women, but it is important for her to realise her role and submit to it. This is not a bad thing or an oppressive thing. It is a God appointed thing, and if the man follows his God appointed instructions, being submissive can be a joy, not a burden. And as women, we should always keep in mind that it is not easy for men to fulfil their 'roles'. They need support and encouragement, not mutiny within their own families and Churches!

Jesus said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. That is exactly what has happened in society. The family has been broken up. Now . . . back to the OP! lol.

 

[Robbie]

So did anyone have a response to this?

"I was reading Luke tonight and found another difference...

In luke 22 it says that satan entered Judas before the feast of unleavened bread...

In John 13 it says during the feast and after the bread was dripped satan entered Judas..."

If one of the hidden posts actually address it let me know which one and I'll read your response... just over reading all the accusations...

 

[THE Gypsy]

So did anyone have a response to this?

"I was reading Luke tonight and found another difference...

In luke 22 it says that satan entered Judas before the feast of unleavened bread...

In John 13 it says during the feast and after the bread was dripped satan entered Judas..."

If one of the hidden posts actually address it let me know which one and I'll read your response... just over reading all the accusations...

Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luke 22:1-3

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him; John 13:1-2

And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. John 13:27



Not a contradiction...Satan, unlike God, is not omnipresent. He cannot be more than one place at a time. Because of that fact, he is not going to stay any longer than he has to.

Luke's account is when Satan entered Judas for the purpose of "making the deal" with the chief priests and scribes. The difference is John then follows it up with the act itself.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[7angels]

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luke 22:1-3.
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him; John 13:1-2
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. John 13:27

ok i believe gypsy hit it.
Not a contradiction...Satan, unlike God, is not omnipresent. He cannot be more than one place at a time. Because of that fact, he is not going to stay any longer than he has to.
Luke's account is when Satan entered Judas for the purpose of "making the deal" with the chief priests and scribes. The difference is John then follows it up with the act itself.

(1 pet 5:8, job 1:7) these verses show that satan is not omnipresent. he enters does what he needs to the leaves and if necessary he keeps coming back as needed.

now i have not done a study on satan but from what i know so far about satan is that he has demons and fallen angels working for him. demons are the ones that bother us daily to keep tempting us. Fallen angels are one step up from demons being more powerful. then there is satan himself who is the most powerful of those cast to earth so many years ago.
now this is where i have not studied it through but it is satan who is the one that keeps after those who are the hottest after God and live according to his statutes and have power from on high. a few examples are adam, job, Jesus, and ect... luk 22:40 shows how they could of overcome the temptation put upon them but luk 22:46 shows why they were unsuccessful at keeping temptation at bay once Jesus was taken..

 

[BibleScribe]

what answer are you talking of? ...

robbie says
...

 

[Robbie]

That's an interesting perspective... I'll check that out... and see if I am fully in agreement...

What do you guys think about the rooster crowing... the one testimony says Peter denied him three times before the rooster crowed twice... the other three say he denied him three times before the rooster crowed...

 

[Groundzero]

That's an interesting perspective... I'll check that out... and see if I am fully in agreement...

What do you guys think about the rooster crowing... the one testimony says Peter denied him three times before the rooster crowed twice... the other three say he denied him three times before the rooster crowed...

Just as Peter denied Jesus the 3rd time, the cock crew. It therefore must have happened almost simultaneously, so both statements are correct. Just as Peter denied Jesus the third time the cock crew, so Peter denied Jesus three times before the cock crew. Since the cock hadn't crowed yet, Peter also denied Jesus three times before the cock crew twice!

For that matter, we could say that Peter denied Jesus three times before the cock crew five times! lol.

 

[Rach1370]

When cops take 'statements' they say it's the small inconsistencies that show truth. If five people repeated an account of something, pretty much word for word, apparently it a dead give away that the account is false. Because it should be coming from several different people...people who see/feel/think differently, every account should have slightly different details. That's normal, in fact needed. It would only be if the accounts completely differed from one another that you would begin to question...for eg...Peter denied Jesus after the cock crowed....Peter denied Jesus and a dog barked.
We see these differing accounts throughout the gospels. They are both from different disciples, and also, they are for different audiences. Some are written for specific Jewish audiences, while others are written for gentiles. We should expect slight differences. It would be more questionable, I would think, if they were all exactly the same.

 

[Groundzero]

When cops take 'statements' they say it's the small inconsistencies that show truth. If five people repeated an account of something, pretty much word for word, apparently it a dead give away that the account is false. Because it should be coming from several different people...people who see/feel/think differently, every account should have slightly different details. That's normal, in fact needed. It would only be if the accounts completely differed from one another that you would begin to question...for eg...Peter denied Jesus after the cock crowed....Peter denied Jesus and a dog barked. We see these differing accounts throughout the gospels. They are both from different disciples, and also, they are for different audiences. Some are written for specific Jewish audiences, while others are written for gentiles. We should expect slight differences. It would be more questionable, I would think, if they were all exactly the same.

Exactly! Every writer remembered different things and emphasized different things. If anything, it supports the fact that there were all different writers! The most amazing thing is that the Scripture all agrees! It has one source: God.

 

[Rach1370]

Exactly! Every writer remembered different things and emphasized different things. If anything, it supports the fact that there were all different writers! The most amazing thing is that the Scripture all agrees! It has one source: God.

Agreed!

 

[Robbie]

I looked into your view 7angels and I'm not sure if I believe the same... but I could understand why you see it that way... and honestly whether it's because satan was in him and then left and then came back into him... or whether Luke was just a little mistaken when he was reiterating the testimony is irrelevant to me and doesn't change anything about my faith... because Christ having authority isn't dependent on man's testimonies in a book being in perfect alignment... Christ's authority comes directly from God... you remove every bible from this planet and Christ will still have the same authority... because Christ isn't dependent on a book... it's testified to in a book... but the authority itself come from God alone... to think God is in someway dependent on man publishing a book in order for Him to achieve His purpose is ignorant... I'm not saying this is what you believe... but I am just saying...

So my mind has become clear again since I took a break from those that were falsely accusing me and I've remembered my original intention....

Fire7 said there were contradictions in the bible... I said I agreed because honestly I do see a contradiction between a God who tells people to kill their enemies... and a God who tells people to love their enemies... my intention was never to discredit God... but to simply explain that God in the old is seen through a veil and the veil is removed in Christ... so there's no point in continuing to try to know God through the Old where He's hard to see clearly because of the veil... especially since the only way to truly know God is through Christ alone... as He is the only perfect revelation of the Father... so my point was to simply be effective and to relate to someone who has similar questions and maybe struggles with faith that I do... and I shared that it was through Christ alone that I've continued to believe in God... and Christ Himself said the same... that He alone was the foundation that could stand against the trials...

So yeah... continuing to just make Christ alone my foundation... I do love reading the testimonies to Christ that are in the bible... but I'm happy to say God doesn't become impotent when someone takes the book away from me... because His Spirit given to us is the One who teaches us... and we now have direct access to the Father through His Spirit... and we only have One Father Who is God... and we only have One Teacher who is Christ... Who is the living Word of the Father... Who was manifested in the flesh... who became a Man... what a mystery that is... something the carnal mind will never understand or accept. The Father in Him... Him in us... God's Word living in us... not in a book...

 

[Robbie]

I was thinking about this more...

There's a big difference between saying what I said and saying what a few people were falsely accusing me of saying.

Saying the bible has contradictions in it is not the same as saying it's a book of contradictions... or that it's fallible... or this or that...

Because the bible isn't a book of contradictions... it says exactly the way it is... it testifies to humanities ability to know God before Christ and after...

So it testifies to the Old and the New Covenant...

In the Old Covenant God was veiled... people couldn't see Him clearly...

In the New Covenant the veil is removed in Christ...

So even though someone who is under the veil of the old might have a contradicting view to what's right or who God is when compared to someone who sees God clearly through Christ... that doesn't mean the book is a, "Book of contradictions" or whatever nonsense people were saying I was saying.

It means the bible just testifies to exactly the way it is... without Christ as their foundation people can't see God clearly and with Christ they do and people who are under the veil are at times going to have a contradicting view to those who have the veil removed.

I mean isn't that even obvious in the testimonies to the New... that the Pharisees who were under the veil constantly had contradicting views to Christ?

And didn't Christ Himself say that they were searching for life in the scriptures and yet they didn't have God's Word in them because they wouldn't come to Him which is the only way to have the veil removed?

When people saw God through the veil they didn't see the truth of Who He is... and when the veil is removed in Christ we do.. that doesn't mean the bible is a book of contradictions... it just means it testifies to the contradicting states of existence between those who see God through a veil and those who have the veil removed in Jesus...

If the bible testified to people seeing God as clearly without Jesus as with Jesus then it would be a book of contradictions... because then the scriptures would be denying the whole reason for their existence which is only to testify to Christ... and that testimony is that He's the only way to truly know the Father... so do I get confused when I see someone's view of God in the bible who still sees Him through a veil contradicting someone else's view in the bible who sees Him without a veil? Of course not... because that to me is exactly the opposite of the bible being a book of contradictions... that to me is the bible testifying to the truth of how it is.

Anyways... I'm ready for Ducky to now say that I'm satan calling God's Word this or that but whatever... I know who I am and what I'm saying... whether people hear it or not is on them...

Either way.. be blessed...

 

[Duckybill]

Anyways... I'm read for Ducky to now say that I'm satan calling God's Word this or that but whatever... I know who I am and what I'm saying... whether people hear it or not is on them...

Either way.. be blessed...

No Robbie, you're not Satan. You're just deceived into thinking you can live a Christian life without the Bible.