Error and Contradictions in the Bible

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
It appears to me that God was talking to the audience. ...


Hi FHII,

Thanks for your thoughts! However, if you consider that when GOD spoke to Jesus, as recorded in John 12:28-29, some of the others only heard thunder. As such, I would suppose that GOD's voice supercedes language, in that when GOD Speaks, HE Speaks to hearts and not ears. And in this regard, I would argue that GOD indeed Spoke to Jesus as "YOU", and to those who stood alongside as "THIS" ... is my beloved son (with you / in whom) I'm well pleased.

Accordingly, I expect all three accounts to be ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. :)

Your Friend,
BiblleScribe




... and a note to "GroundZero" --


ROFL :lol:


Truth spoken in the Spirit of GOD is like light in a dark room!
BibleScribe
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I wish to say two things. I know I was one of those you guys thought of when you started this thread :lol:


I do not believe there is error in the Bible (not to say all translations are perfect, if any as a matter of fact). I believe the the Bible is God's word in the sense that it is what God has spoken. I think it's a great tool to instruct in righteousness, and a great tool for the spirit to teach us or confirm something to us.

As for contradictions. This is hard to explain. Firstly, I will not argue over it as I think it is not important compared to the point above and most of all the point below that I will write. I see in the Bible contradictions...

Now the more important point. The Bible is not God itself, only one of his tools. He works by his Spirit and wishes to transform us into his image. It was true of the Pharisees that they "searched the scriptures, and in them they thought they found life", but when the living son of God came down, they rejected him. Which is why we need the Spirit. We are to be led of the Spirit and walking by the Spirit.

The Lord bless you all! :)

Prentis,

As a side note... I think we have encountered each other before on other message boards, no?

I have underlined a few points in your quotes above that I want to address. It is good that you don't believe the Bible has error. I thank you and God for you making that clear. The second thing I underlined is you saying, "I see in the Bible contradictions...." Let me say this: I can deal with with that statement. That is a different statement than, "there are contradictions in the Bible". I take every word seriously, whether it's in the Bible or something someone else writes. I don't have a problem with you "seeing" contradictions. By that statement, you are admitting that you are to blame (bear with me on that). You are not saying the Bible has contradictions, but you see some things as being contradictory.

This is the true spirit I started this thread. I don't know if I can clear up any contradiction you see. I don't know if anyone else can either. I am asking that you give us a chance. If nothing else, what can conversation result to? Either a changing of your mind (or mine), a new set of questions to study, or a stronger resolve in your stance. In any way, it'll be beneficial.

The Third thing I underlined is this: "The Bible is not God itself". Prentis, I can't speak for others, but I never claimed it to be. I do reject the notion that we are trying to replace Jesus with a book. But that book contains the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's the only source that tells what he did and what his doctrine was. You are correct in that it is a tool. I like to call it the rulebook or handbook of our walk in him. It's the owner's manual.

I read over and over about people who didn't use the Bible to find Jesus? I ask you this: How do you know what Jesus did? How do you know he died and rose from the dead? Did you learn it from Josephus or Mohommed? Or did you hear it from a witnessing person who actually read the Bible and told you what it said?

No one is trying to replace God with the Bible (a book). Least not I! It is however, what he said, did and thought. All the Apostles and Jesus himself quoted scripture. Jesus pointed to the Bible as proof that he was who he said he was until he died. I know you realize that.... God isn't the Bible, my friend. But what God did is in the Bible and his doctrine is in the Bible.

Your statement is not a good omen. It's usually what people say when they are in rebellion against GOD, -- more typically expressed as ~"I only believe the words in red."~

Scripture is provided as GOD's Word to the Church, and if you don't like all of it, then I would propose you like none of it.


BibleScribe

Well said! Paul -- Christ's ambassador and spokesman -- wrote Corinthians. Robbie doesn't care. I wonder if Robbie thinks Paul was actually a child of Christ. If Paul wasn't.... What of the rest of us? Perhaps Robbie thinks he's the only one.

Ever.

haha... The only way I can be in rebellion against God is if I'm in rebellion against Jesus... and I'm in agreement with Jesus... He is my only teacher... I only call Him teacher... it's what He said to believe... yet you accuse me of being in rebellion against God because I believe Him...

So tell me biblescribe... since you accused me of being in rebellion against God...

Do you call anyone else your teacher? Because if you do you are in rebellion against Christ...

You want to judge... there's your judgment...

And what about the rest? Why do you strongly disagree with me again biblescribe expert guy? haha

Ok, fine Robbie... Without the Bible, tell us all the wonderful things Jesus has taught you? Why do you believe he's the only teacher?

Robbie, if you don't need anyone else but Jesus, fine, but at least give us some peace! All you do is rattle away about the same subject time and time again. Unless you can contribute something to the current topic, please keep it to a minimum!



Alright Robbie. So you have absolutely NO role models?! No one who you look up to?! Get real! What about Paul saying, "Follow me as I follow Christ?" (1Co_11:1). Oh, I understand. We don't have to worry about the Bible, since Jesus is all that matters! Stick to the OP, or start your own topic on the issue!

Whoah! Groundzero, I swear that I did not read this post before writing a very similar one! We are of like thinking in that we said almost the same thing!
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
35
0
29
Australia
Prentis,

As a side note... I think we have encountered each other before on other message boards, no?

I have underlined a few points in your quotes above that I want to address. It is good that you don't believe the Bible has error. I thank you and God for you making that clear. The second thing I underlined is you saying, "I see in the Bible contradictions...." Let me say this: I can deal with with that statement. That is a different statement than, "there are contradictions in the Bible". I take every word seriously, whether it's in the Bible or something someone else writes. I don't have a problem with you "seeing" contradictions. By that statement, you are admitting that you are to blame (bear with me on that). You are not saying the Bible has contradictions, but you see some things as being contradictory.

This is the true spirit I started this thread. I don't know if I can clear up any contradiction you see. I don't know if anyone else can either. I am asking that you give us a chance. If nothing else, what can conversation result to? Either a changing of your mind (or mine), a new set of questions to study, or a stronger resolve in your stance. In any way, it'll be beneficial.

The Third thing I underlined is this: "The Bible is not God itself". Prentis, I can't speak for others, but I never claimed it to be. I do reject the notion that we are trying to replace Jesus with a book. But that book contains the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's the only source that tells what he did and what his doctrine was. You are correct in that it is a tool. I like to call it the rulebook or handbook of our walk in him. It's the owner's manual.

I read over and over about people who didn't use the Bible to find Jesus? I ask you this: How do you know what Jesus did? How do you know he died and rose from the dead? Did you learn it from Josephus or Mohommed? Or did you hear it from a witnessing person who actually read the Bible and told you what it said?

No one is trying to replace God with the Bible (a book). Least not I! It is however, what he said, did and thought. All the Apostles and Jesus himself quoted scripture. Jesus pointed to the Bible as proof that he was who he said he was until he died. I know you realize that.... God isn't the Bible, my friend. But what God did is in the Bible and his doctrine is in the Bible.



Well said! Paul -- Christ's ambassador and spokesman -- wrote Corinthians. Robbie doesn't care. I wonder if Robbie thinks Paul was actually a child of Christ. If Paul wasn't.... What of the rest of us? Perhaps Robbie thinks he's the only one.

Ever.



Ok, fine Robbie... Without the Bible, tell us all the wonderful things Jesus has taught you? Why do you believe he's the only teacher?



Whoah! Groundzero, I swear that I did not read this post before writing a very similar one! We are of like thinking in that we said almost the same thing!

Aaaagh. It's so nice to have someone in agreement! lol. I forgot to put a smiley face on my post so I don't get accused of loosing my cool! lol. :)
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
...
God isn't the Bible, my friend. But what God did is in the Bible and his doctrine is in the Bible.
...

Truer words could not have been written. This is an exhortation to the True believers to seek the fullness of who GOD IS, and how HE relates to mankind, including through HIS SON, and HIS HOLY SPIRIT. For these THREE agree with Scripture, and Scripture agrees with these THREE.

I hope all should take this powerful message to heart as a Word spoken by a Servant under the authority of the Most High.


BibleScribe
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi FHII,

Thanks for your thoughts! However, if you consider that when GOD spoke to Jesus, as recorded in John 12:28-29, some of the others only heard thunder. As such, I would suppose that GOD's voice supercedes language, in that when GOD Speaks, HE Speaks to hearts and not ears. And in this regard, I would argue that GOD indeed Spoke to Jesus as "YOU", and to those who stood alongside as "THIS" ... is my beloved son (with you / in whom) I'm well pleased.

Accordingly, I expect all three accounts to be ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. :)


BibleScribe

Hey BibleScribe,

I have to laugh within myself because as I wrote my response I knew I was missing something and new what it was. I just didn't remember where it was and couldn't get a recount of the details.

I studied this very question you are asking long ago. I came up with the same answer I gave earlier, and that is with considering the verses in John 12. The problem is, I don't remember why exactly. After reading it again, I think I have the answer and that is that God still meant people to hear it.

The reason is that Jesus may have wanted assurance himself, but he said himself in Matthew 6 to pray in secret. This incident in John 22 comes after some confusing stuff concerning Lazerus. Many people think Jesus wept because Lazarus died. I don't think he did weep for that reason. I think he wept because the people mourned over it when Lazarus was actually in a better place. But that is a bit of a digression.

Jesus prayed some in public, but often times it was to be an example for people to hear or follow, or for them to know what was on his mind. When Jesus really wanted to talk to his Father, he prayed in the Garden of Gasthemine alone, away from the crowd, and even away from Peter, John and James. He prayed alone.

That's a parable or contradiction I want to know about! The Bible says Jesus prayed many hours and all he said (three times) was if it be thy will.... [paraphrasing])? And how did anyone know to report it? Jesus prayed alone and yet someone knew what he said? My only answer is that the Holy Spirit told the Gospel writers what Jesus said! Cause they weren't there to hear it, and the only Gospel writer who was close was John, and he was asleep at the time.

Yet the Holy Spirit didn't guide men and the Bible is full of error and contradictions... OK.

But again, I digress.... It's an interesting question you raise, and I'll look more into it. I just gave my off the cuff answer, but it's not a bad thing to study and discuss further.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
This is a great explanation Prentis! It certainly helps seeing where you are coming from, thanks! I really don't think there are 'contradictions' within scripture, but yes, there are passages that take a greater understanding to work through them. I truly believe, however, that once we do, that God uses them to reveal something important and wonderful to us. I really like your 'red light, green light' analogy, that it's the Spirit's work that brings those 'rules' to life within us.
Here's something I've been pondering over, that I think is similar. We are told in scripture that Satan is the great accuser. And yet we are also told that the Holy Spirit convicts us. So how do we figure out who is pointing a finger at us?? My thought is that being convicted by the Spirit should bring a sort of joy with it. You know, 'thank you God, for loving me enough to point out this thing I need to work on'. But that isn't spelt out in a big way in the bible...it's something that we rely on the HS to reveal to us.
The bible is a precious book of guidelines and road maps for us and I love it, but truly, without the Holy Spirit within us, it won't do us any good.
Nice chatting with you Prentis!

Thanks for your grace towards me sister :)

That's a perfect example! How do we recognize the conviction of the Holy Spirit versus the accusation of the enemy? By the Spirit! When it is the Lord, we then bear the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace...

You nail it right on. The Bible IS wonderfull... But the life and power is in the Spirit!

The grace, patience, and love you display is truly an example to all of us, and a blessing to me! May the Lord bless you, sister :)
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks for your grace towards me sister :)

That's a perfect example! How do we recognize the conviction of the Holy Spirit versus the accusation of the enemy? By the Spirit! When it is the Lord, we then bear the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace...

You nail it right on. The Bible IS wonderfull... But the life and power is in the Spirit!

The grace, patience, and love you display is truly an example to all of us, and a blessing to me! May the Lord bless you, sister :)
Rachel is a peach, no doubt!
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Prentis,

As a side note... I think we have encountered each other before on other message boards, no?

I have underlined a few points in your quotes above that I want to address. It is good that you don't believe the Bible has error. I thank you and God for you making that clear. The second thing I underlined is you saying, "I see in the Bible contradictions...." Let me say this: I can deal with with that statement. That is a different statement than, "there are contradictions in the Bible". I take every word seriously, whether it's in the Bible or something someone else writes. I don't have a problem with you "seeing" contradictions. By that statement, you are admitting that you are to blame (bear with me on that). You are not saying the Bible has contradictions, but you see some things as being contradictory.

This is the true spirit I started this thread. I don't know if I can clear up any contradiction you see. I don't know if anyone else can either. I am asking that you give us a chance. If nothing else, what can conversation result to? Either a changing of your mind (or mine), a new set of questions to study, or a stronger resolve in your stance. In any way, it'll be beneficial.

The Third thing I underlined is this: "The Bible is not God itself". Prentis, I can't speak for others, but I never claimed it to be. I do reject the notion that we are trying to replace Jesus with a book. But that book contains the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's the only source that tells what he did and what his doctrine was. You are correct in that it is a tool. I like to call it the rulebook or handbook of our walk in him. It's the owner's manual.

I read over and over about people who didn't use the Bible to find Jesus? I ask you this: How do you know what Jesus did? How do you know he died and rose from the dead? Did you learn it from Josephus or Mohommed? Or did you hear it from a witnessing person who actually read the Bible and told you what it said?

No one is trying to replace God with the Bible (a book). Least not I! It is however, what he said, did and thought. All the Apostles and Jesus himself quoted scripture. Jesus pointed to the Bible as proof that he was who he said he was until he died. I know you realize that.... God isn't the Bible, my friend. But what God did is in the Bible and his doctrine is in the Bible.

Have we encountered before? That is very possible. I have been on Christian-Forum.com, where C was well known, but that site has been shut down by hackers. I have been and still am sporadically on BibleForums.net. Ive also been very lightly involved on another site or two. What name would you of had?

I think our understanding of what I mean by contradictions differs :)

God gives different instructions at different times. I speak of this fact, there is a time for everything. One time God says 'have mercy', another time, to take one example, Ananias lies, and that's it, he's dead. There is a place for everything and a time for everything. If you are in one situation, you have a different instruction than in another. And sometimes the difference will not be sensed by our 5 carnal senses, but has to be discerned by the Spirit.

I believe you when you tell me you haven't said the Bible is God. I am merely defending a point some have brought up.

But I wish to bring this further, and this is where I find the stumbling block often is.

We must follow the Spirit, not the Bible. The Bible will be in agreement with it, but we really are following the Spirit. We follow Christ. Paul and Barnabas, He sends to the Gentiles. James, He places as an elder over the church of Jerusalem. Etc, etc. Christianity is not about following a rule book. God wants us to follow HIM. We each have our own cross to carry.

The book is usefull, but it is not God, and without God it actually has no power. God is the one that puts power behind it to start with. It points us to him. The whole point is to become like Christ, and that is impossible with men, but it is possible with GOD. The Bible is beautiful. It is a great tool when the Spirit uses it. It's great to teach and bring up in righteousness. But ultimately it points to God.

Im not saying you disagree with this, just clarifying what I'm saying :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to add this: Can we make a judgment and say "Now is a time like the time with Ananias. You must die."? Never.

Only God can judge.

So Peter had to be following the Spirit guys. He didn't look up in the scriptures what he needed to do. He was taught of the Lord and the Spirit guided him and executed judgment THROUGH him. It was God's judgment.

That is why we must follow the Spirit; that God might do HIS work through us.
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
No one is trying to replace God with the Bible (a book). Least not I! It is however, what he said, did and thought. All the Apostles and Jesus himself quoted scripture. Jesus pointed to the Bible as proof that he was who he said he was until he died. I know you realize that.... God isn't the Bible, my friend. But what God did is in the Bible and his doctrine is in the Bible.
Well said! I don't recall anyone saying the Bible is God. It is a false charge by those attacking the Bible. But His Word has been written down as the Bible itself teaches in many places.

Matthew 21:42 (NKJV)
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Just one of many instances. Yes, God's Word has been written down for us.

We must follow the Spirit, not the Bible.
Without the Bible you don't know which spirit you are following.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
That's interesting, Duckybill :)

The Bible does teach us much, but it also says my sheep know my voice. The Lord is recognized by the fruit of the Spirit that we bear when he comes to us.

Does the Bible tell us that? Yes. But we cannot know what the fruit of the Spirit is if we haven't experienced it.

The Bible is a great tool, and the Lord teaches us through it... But the focus is his life in us, his word's being alive, and dividing between soul and spirit. The focus is on Christ. He is the Teacher and the Master!

That is simply my point. I agree, the Bible is full of wonders... And how great it is when the Spirit opens them to us :)
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
The Bible does teach us much, but it also says my sheep know my voice. The Lord is recognized by the fruit of the Spirit that we bear when he comes to us.

Does the Bible tell us that? Yes. But we cannot know what the fruit of the Spirit is if we haven't experienced it.

The Bible is a great tool, and the Lord teaches us through it... But the focus is his life in us, his word's being alive, and dividing between soul and spirit. The focus is on Christ. He is the Teacher and the Master!

That is simply my point. I agree, the Bible is full of wonders... And how great it is when the Spirit opens them to us :)
The Bible is the written Word of God. It is written down. The Bible says so. You don't believe the Bible is the written Word of God so why are you pretending?

Nehemiah 8:18 (NKJV)
18 Also day by day, from the first day until the last day, he read from the Book of the Law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day there was a sacred assembly, according to the prescribed manner.
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
Groundzero... I already said who my role model is... who my foundation is... He is Jesus... and yes.. just like Paul I to follow Christ as well... do I follow Christ like Paul by following Paul? does Paul follow Christ by following himself? of course not... I follow Christ like Paul by following Christ directly... the same way Paul did... so once again you think you know it all but you really don't even understand what you read...

First FHII... I have a question for you and then I'll share with you some things Jesus has taught me... if Jesus said not to call anyone on earth your teacher but Him... why do you not believe that He's to be our only Teacher?
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
Groundzero... I already said who my role model is... who my foundation is... He is Jesus... and yes.. just like Paul I to follow Christ as well... do I follow Christ like Paul by following Paul? does Paul follow Christ by following himself? of course not... I follow Christ like Paul by following Christ directly... the same way Paul did... so once again you think you know it all but you really don't even understand what you read...

First FHII... I have a question for you and then I'll share with you some things Jesus has taught me... if Jesus said not to call anyone on earth your teacher but Him... why do you not believe that He's to be our only Teacher?
Oh Robbie, if your Jesus isn't the Jesus of the Bible then it is Satan.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
35
0
29
Australia
Groundzero... I already said who my role model is... who my foundation is... He is Jesus... and yes.. just like Paul I to follow Christ as well... do I follow Christ like Paul by following Paul? does Paul follow Christ by following himself? of course not... I follow Christ like Paul by following Christ directly... the same way Paul did... so once again you think you know it all but you really don't even understand what you read...

First FHII... I have a question for you and then I'll share with you some things Jesus has taught me... if Jesus said not to call anyone on earth your teacher but Him... why do you not believe that He's to be our only Teacher?

If what you say is correct, then I must be having one enormous brain overload! Perhaps I am so deluded that I'm seeing words that don't exist! :unsure:


1Ti_2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2Ti_1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Paul said that he was a teacher of the Gentiles! Whoa!

Oh, I had a look at your claim that Jesus said that only he was to be our Teacher. I had enormous difficulty trying to find such a passage. I'll leave it to the addressee to work it out :)
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
haha... you're seriously such a nightmare... but I love ya... Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and follow me... He said we would recognize His voice... you keep saying I don't know which Jesus I'm follwing... yet I keep proclaiming the truths of Jesus as you deny them... I proclaim that He is the Word that was in the beginning and that all things were made through Him... I proclaim that He spoke God's Word directly through His mouth... and that His Word's had authority because they came directly from God... and that authority was proven when with His Word He raised the dead, healed the sick, stopped the wind and the waves, etc... and you mock me for believing the truth of Him... even denying that Christ is in His that are His... and calling the Holy Spirit a unknown spirit...

But I seriously pray that the Father forgives you for everything... because there's no way I think you even have a clue as to what you are doing Ducky...

Seriously I hope you're blessed and forgiven for everything... as I also want to be blessed and forgiven for everything... especially for the wrong I didn't even know I was doing...
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
The Bible is the Word of God Robbie, as has been proven from the Bible. Unless YOU are god???
 

Comm.Arnold

New Member
Apr 7, 2011
662
14
0
40
Well one of the most blatant contradictions in the bible involves the idea of slavery. A good well educated friend and I have discussed this many times over the laws in exodus regarding the way a man should treat his slaves. The book talks about the value of a slave and the possibility of a slave sleeping with an owners daughter and some other confusing laws. Then Jesus talks a lot about humbling yourself and making yourself the least of your brothers. How can someone be humble and still have a slave to do all the dirty work ? Does not make sense, the only argument I have is that Jesus was sent to change the rules and that the old testament days were much different than the days of Jesus.