Eschatologioal Footing

[Stranger]

Stranger, read #32.
Check all the scriptures I quote and then realize the truth of who are the true Israel of God.

What kind of answer is that? I could just as easily say to you, read the Bible. Then you will realize that the Church and Israel are not the same. So, have you read your Bible? Do you realize it yet? If not, just keep reading. Let me know when it comes to you.

Stranger

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Tag-team!

Stranger, read #32.
Check all the scriptures I quote and then realize the truth of who are the true Israel of God.

You mean #33. Realize the truth? Or must we accept what you say is true?
Now let's see what you say.

Those alive when the leader of the One World Govt comes to the nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and makes a peace treaty with them, that commences the last seven years before the Return of Jesus.

Isa 62:1 For Zion's sake I will not keep silent,
And for Jerusalem's sake I will not keep quiet,
Until her righteousness goes forth like brightness,
And her salvation like a torch that is burning.
2 The nations will see your righteousness,
And all kings your glory;
And you will be called by a new name
Which the mouth of the Lord will designate.
3 You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the Lord,
And a royal diadem in the hand of your God.
4 It will no longer be said to you, " Forsaken,"
Nor to your land will it any longer be said, " Desolate";
But you will be called, " My delight is in her,"
And your land, " Married";
For the Lord delights in you,
And to Him your land will be married.
5 For as a young man marries a virgin,
So your sons will marry you;
And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
So your God will rejoice over you.

Not only is there no context of war here, there is no "nation of Beulah."
Beulah is the name of the God gives Jerusalem - "My delight is in her."

Nowhere in the passage is there any sense of the one 'seven''; the "prince who is to come" - the anti-Christ being present; the unholy one-world government that the fourth terrible beast will ultimately forge in war; and no mention or even a hint at Jesus' Return.

You see folk: you really have to read the Scripture that rabbi keras so cavalierly calls up saying it says something because so often - it means nothing of the sort.
He literally gets the Bible wrong time and time again.

To me, this passage represents a Millennium promise, coming AFTER the desolations He will bring.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

.
Let's go through another utterance of "truth" from rabbi keras from his post #33.

There will be peace for half of the 7 years, but at the mid point that leader will come to Jerusalem in force, Zechariah 14:1, and sit in the Temple, declaring himself to be god.

Zec 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.

Zechariah 14 is an important eschatological chapter. The opening seven verses describe events which happen ON the Day of the Lord.

The first verse has nothing to do with the Gog/Magog invasion which places the King of the North - the anti-Christ - between the seas at the Holy Mountain of Daniel 11:45. And that scene is replicated in Luke 21:20...

rabbi keras - again! ~ literally makes things up out of whole cloth.
How someone can be so delusional as to think that "a day is coming for the Lord" to do something for the Jews - is the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9:27 / Mt 24:15 / 2Th 2:4 / Rev 13:14-15 - is quite beyond my ability to be that illogical.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

.
Now for rabbi keras' next utterance of "truth".

Zechariah 14:1, ...This commences the Great Tribulation of 1260 days.

In the previous post, we noted, as provided in the context of the quote, that there is nothing akin to the mention of the midpoint abomination, which is prevalent in end-time prophecy, in this section of Zechariah 14.

rabbi keras goes on to make a statement that the midpoint abomination - which is not part of the text he quotes - commences the Great Tribulation.

This is both true and false.
- It is true that the Great Tribulation begins at the midpoint abomination, as Jesus says in the Olivet Discourse.
- It is false in that the Great Tribulation "commences" with TWO LAWS passed by the false prophet at the midpoint abomination.

This can be found right after the revelation of the midpoint abomination as a talking image in Revelation 13:15-17.

However again! What is patently false is that the Great Tribulation lasts the entire length of the rest of the one 'seven'!

Jesus said:

Mt 24:21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

The word for "cut short" is an agricultural term for "docking" an animals tail to but a nub.
I put it to you, gentle reader, that the Great Tribulation is NOT three and a half years long!
Who could survive that long? Practically no one...

We will be hunted down and forced to the Daniel test of worship or die. You will not be able to move about freely in public.
We will be unable to work, or earn a living.
We will be unable to provide food and utilities to provide for ourselves and our families.
We will die wholesale, and rather quickly.

Here is the wisdom of the Saints as is given to us in Scripture: Endure patiently.
Keep the Faith; remain steadfast (in Jesus).

He who seeks to save his life will lose it.
But he who loses his life for Christ's sake will have it for all eternity - in Heaven.
You don't have to "make it" to the end, to "make it" into Heaven.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

.
Now for more fun with rabbi keras and his "TRUTH" report!

But it is the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, Revelation 6:12-17, that no one knows the day. We surely should know the season: that it will happen quite soon, is evident from the current world situation.

Rev 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Well, you have to hand it to the rabbi; the sixth Seal of Rev 6:12-17 does reveal the Day of the Lord.

However! The ONLY ones who declare that God's Wrath comes at that specific time - AND as the very NEXT thing to happen! - are the wicked...
...and they are consistently wrong about God, even more so than rabbi keras is wrong about Scripture.

If you read a parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 (exclusive of 11:1-13) in Revelation chapters 13-16 (inclusive) ~
You will find that BEFORE the Harvest from the clouds by Jesus in 14:14-16 - there are three Angels who visit the earth.

In Rev 14:6-12:
The first Angel fulfills the Great Commission which Jesus said WILL be done before the "end".
The third Angel tells the wicked what will be coming!
SO ~ this is why the wicked hide, and how they "know" their time is up!
But it is not up at that particular moment.
It will come shortly though for some - but for most, the wicked will continue to suffer greater than we do in the Great Tribulation.
In the end - the wicked will be eliminated.

And God, through Jesus to John, truthfully reveals what the wicked lament.
______________________________________

The worst lie that rabbi keras presents though is that the Day of the Lord is the "next" thing to happen.
That is in error.
The Day of the Lord happens AFTER the start of the one 'seven'.
It happens after the Temple is being rebuilt... (which is one way you can know we're IN the one 'seven'.)
And it happens AFTER the midpoint abomination of the talking image (revealing the Son of Perdition).
And it happens AFTER the Great Tribulation,
And it happens AFTER the sun/moon/star event.

So the time is not yet, but it will happen. Maybe in my lifetime. Maybe not. As anyone of us could die today - it behooves us to act as if He could come at any time, because our meeting with the Lord is as near as our death.

Endure patiently, keep the faith, and remain steadfast.

 

[keras]

Well, Marcus, you are consistant. Consistantly wrong.
I won't bother to refute all your peculiar beliefs, I have made my points and you disbelieve them. Your prerogative and your problem, when things don't happen as you think they will.

I do agree with your last statement: Endure patiently, keep the faith and remain steadfast in all that is to come.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I have made my points and you disbelieve them.

As well I should from such a blind rabbi. You do not convey God's Truth well, and indeed hardly at all often times.

 

[keras]

Marcus said:
The worst lie that rabbi keras presents though is that the Day of the Lord is the "next" thing to happen.
That is in error.

Did Isaiah 61:1-2 make a mistake to put: and the Day of vengeance of our God....?
​Jesus quoted and fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy, up to that point. Luke 4:18-19 The Day of vengeance and wrath follows, after a nearly 2000 year gap. Believe it or not.
But thinking that a rapture is next to happen is sheer wishful thinking and completely unbiblical.

 

[Stranger]

Marcus said:
The worst lie that rabbi keras presents though is that the Day of the Lord is the "next" thing to happen.
That is in error.

Did Isaiah 61:1-2 make a mistake to put: and the Day of vengeance of our God....?
​Jesus quoted and fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy, up to that point. Luke 4:18-19 The Day of vengeance and wrath follows, after a nearly 2000 year gap. Believe it or not.
But thinking that a rapture is next to happen is sheer wishful thinking and completely unbiblical.

No, Isaiah made no mistake. And Jesus did fulfill the first half in His earthly ministry. The day of vengeance is later. I agree.

But, that proves nothing in regards to the rapture. You just say it is wishful thinking. It is not wishful thinking because you say so. And that it is Biblical is what we are discussing.

Stranger

 

[keras]

The Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, is the next prophesied event to happen. It is plain that the first five Seals are open already.
If Jesus did intend to take His people away from it, He surely would have said so, then or later, but He didn't. We will pass thru it, Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12 and God will send angels to protect all who call out to Him on that Day. Zechariah 9:15-16

Isaiah 61:3-11 goes on to detail how His people will be called 'trees of righteousness and foreigners will help them to plant and build a nation; renowned among the nations'.

There is just no call for a rapture removal to heaven, what God has promised to all who believe in Him, is truly amazing and will be the great fulfilment of our destiny.

 

[Stranger]

The Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, is the next prophesied event to happen. It is plain that the first five Seals are open already.
If Jesus did intend to take His people away from it, He surely would have said so, then or later, but He didn't. We will pass thru it, Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12 and God will send angels to protect all who call out to Him on that Day. Zechariah 9:15-16

Isaiah 61:3-11 goes on to detail how His people will be called 'trees of righteousness and foreigners will help them to plant and build a nation; renowned among the nations'.

There is just no call for a rapture removal to heaven, what God has promised to all who believe in Him, is truly amazing and will be the great fulfilment of our destiny.

We who hold to the rapture of the Church are not saying there won't be any people of God on the earth at the time of the Tribulation. There will be. They just won't be the Church. The Jews will turn back to God and place faith in Christ and receive Him as their Messiah. And any others who believe will be saved also. They are the Tribulation saints.

1 Peter 4:12 isn't speaking of the Tribulation. He is speaking of the trials and tribulations a Christian will suffer in this world.

Stranger

 

[keras]

We who hold to the rapture of the Church are not saying there won't be any people of God on the earth at the time of the Tribulation. There will be. They just won't be the Church. The Jews will turn back to God and place faith in Christ and receive Him as their Messiah. And any others who believe will be saved also. They are the Tribulation saints.

1 Peter 4:12 isn't speaking of the Tribulation. He is speaking of the trials and tribulations a Christian will suffer in this world.

Stranger

Why hold to something that is not clearly stated in the Bible? Doesn't the fact that a rapture to heaven, has to be construed out many verses, mostly ones that never mention heaven, make such an idea suspect?

You statement above is very confused. The true Church, every individual who believes in God and who has accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, is the people of God.
The Jewish people are simply just another apostate and atheistic nation, due for judgement along with all the rest of the world. Revelation 6:12-17

1 Peter 4:12 is speaking of the fiery trial that will come upon everyone. The same Day of the Lord's wrath, he says will happen In 2 Peter 3:7, Zephaniah 3:8 The next prophesied event, the world changer that sets the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

 

[Stranger]

Why hold to something that is not clearly stated in the Bible? Doesn't the fact that a rapture to heaven, has to be construed out many verses, mostly ones that never mention heaven, make such an idea suspect?

You statement above is very confused. The true Church, every individual who believes in God and who has accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, is the people of God.
The Jewish people are simply just another apostate and atheistic nation, due for judgement along with all the rest of the world. Revelation 6:12-17

1 Peter 4:12 is speaking of the fiery trial that will come upon everyone. The same Day of the Lord's wrath, he says will happen In 2 Peter 3:7, Zephaniah 3:8 The next prophesied event, the world changer that sets the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

As I said before, line upon line, here a little and there a little. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. And some verses are clear, yet you do not receive them.

I see the Church as those who are born-again from Pentacost to the rapture. After the rapture, and Israel returns back to God, Israel are the believers along with other Gentiles who may believe. But they are not the Church.

2 Peter 3:7 does speak of the end time events. But 1 Peter 4:12 is only speaking of everyday type suffering that Christians will endure.

Stranger

 

[keras]

As I said before, line upon line, here a little and there a little. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. And some verses are clear, yet you do not receive them.

I see the Church as those who are born-again from Pentacost to the rapture. After the rapture, and Israel returns back to God, Israel are the believers along with other Gentiles who may believe. But they are not the Church.

2 Peter 3:7 does speak of the end time events. But 1 Peter 4:12 is only speaking of everyday type suffering that Christians will endure.

Stranger

A rapture removal to heaven is NOT clear. Why do you believe it?
As a person who has intensively studied the Bible for many years and written 4 books on the subject of the end times, your comment about me is invalid and only made because I challenge your beliefs.

Saying the Israel turns back to God, is correct, excepting it isn't the current inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel that will do that, the House of Judah, but the descendants of the ten Northern tribes, still scattered among the nations: the House of Israel. And that has happened, as you and I can attest with our Christian faith.

Peter said there would come a fiery trial upon the world. Read again 2 Peter 3:1-7 Also note 1 Cor. 3:12-15 ....that Day will dawn in fire.... the literal Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, prophesied over 70 times in the Bible.
Be aware, or be in the dark. 1 Thess 5:4

 

[Stranger]

A rapture removal to heaven is NOT clear. Why do you believe it?
As a person who has intensively studied the Bible for many years and written 4 books on the subject of the end times, your comment about me is invalid and only made because I challenge your beliefs.

Saying the Israel turns back to God, is correct, excepting it isn't the current inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel that will do that, the House of Judah, but the descendants of the ten Northern tribes, still scattered among the nations: the House of Israel. And that has happened, as you and I can attest with our Christian faith.

Peter said there would come a fiery trial upon the world. Read again 2 Peter 3:1-7 Also note 1 Cor. 3:12-15 ....that Day will dawn in fire.... the literal Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, prophesied over 70 times in the Bible.
Be aware, or be in the dark. 1 Thess 5:4

I believe it for reasons I have already told you.

You haven't showed where Israel ceased being Israel. Where does it clearly say that Israel no longer means Israel? Why did Christ say 'upon this rock I will build my church'? Why didn't He say 'upon this rock I am building Israel'?

Why should I read 2 Peter 3:1-7 again? I told you it did pertain to the end time events.

1 Cor. 3:12-15 is not speaking of the Day of the Lord but of the judgement of the Christians works.

Stranger

 

[keras]

Why should you even bother with prophecy, if you're so sure you will be in heaven.?
Do you not realize what an incredibly pretentious and self promoting idea that is?

Jesus was right when He said: ....the humble will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
That is where I expect to be and as the Lord blesses His people, it will be like heaven on earth.

 

[Stranger]

Why should you even bother with prophecy, if you're so sure you will be in heaven.?
Do you not realize what an incredibly pretentious and self promoting idea that is?

Jesus was right when He said: ....the humble will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
That is where I expect to be and as the Lord blesses His people, it will be like heaven on earth.

Why do I bother with prophecy? Because God gives it to us to know. My assurance of Heaven has nothing to do with it.

Stranger

 

[keras]

Why do I bother with prophecy? Because God gives it to us to know. My assurance of Heaven has nothing to do with it.

Stranger

If you really did know Bible prophecy, then you would look forward to the time of fulfilment of God's plan to have a people in His Land, true believers, who would be His witnesses and a light to the nations. THAT is our promise and our destiny. Isaiah 49:8. 2 Peter 3:13

 

[Stranger]

If you really did know Bible prophecy, then you would look forward to the time of fulfilment of God's plan to have a people in His Land, true believers, who would be His witnesses and a light to the nations. THAT is our promise and our destiny. Isaiah 49:8. 2 Peter 3:13

Well, I'm always learning. And I do look forward to the time of fulfillment of God's plan to have a people in His land. I just disagree with you on who is the people in that land. That doesn't mean we are not brothers in Christ. We just have different views of end time events.

Stranger

 

[keras]

Who are the Lord’s people?

Psalm 24:3-5 Who may go up to the mountain of the Lord and stand in His holy Place? One who has clean hands and a pure heart, one who refuses what is false.
1 Peter 1:5 Because you put your faith in God, you are under the protection of His power, until His salvation is revealed at the end of the age.
Romans 9:24-26 We are those vessels of mercy, called from among Jews and Gentiles alike. Those who were not My people, I will call My people. they will be called the ‘children of God’. Hosea 1:10….Israelite people.
Malachi 3:16-17 Those who respected the Lord met together and the Lord listened. Their names were written in the Book of Life, the Lord says: they will be Mine, I will spare and deliver them on the appointed Day, the same as a father spares the sons that serve him.
Malachi 4:2-3 For you who fear My Name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings.
Ephesians 2:11-18...for through Jesus, we ALL have access to the Father in the one spirit.
Isaiah 3:10 Happy are the righteous, all will be well with them.
Isaiah 56:1-3 Maintain justice and do what is right. The alien who has given his allegiance to God, is not excluded from His people.
Isaiah 55:1-3 Come for water, all who are thirsty....hear Me and your soul shall live. I will make a Covenant with you.
Psalm 94:14-15 The Lord will not abandon His people or forsake His chosen nation, for justice will again be joined to righteousness and all who are upright in heart will follow it.
Psalm 22:22-31 The Lord does not scorn the downtrodden or hide His face from them, but He listens to their cry for help.
Psalm 69:36 Those who serve the Lord and love His Name, will inherit the Land.
Psalm 85:9 Certainly, His loyal followers will soon experience His deliverance, then glory will appear in our Land.
Isaiah 29:19-22 The lowly and poor will once again rejoice in the Lord, sinners will be cut down.
Acts 2:21 Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord on that Day; will be saved.
Psalm 149:4-5 For the Lord accepts the service of His people and crowns the lowly with victory. Let His loyal servants exult in triumph!
Psalm 37:9 Those who trust in the Lord, will inherit the Land.
Isaiah 57:13b but he who makes Me his refuge, will possess the Land.
Jeremiah 23:3-4 I will bring My sheep back to the Land, they will increase and be fruitful. I shall appoint shepherds who will tend them, they will live in peace.
Isaiah 61:3-6 My righteous people, planted in the Lord’s holy Land, to display His glory.
Reference: REB. Some verses abridged
And we know there is only ONE people of God, true Christian believers, from every race, tribe, nation, and language. [incl Jews] Isaiah 66:18b-21. 1 Cor 12:13

Where was it you said you wanted to be? And how and when will you go there?