Eternal Life is Now!

[Eternally Grateful]

When does eternal life begin?

According to john 3, It begins the moment we have faith in Christ.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

1st we need to look at this story. Jesus used this example for a reason. We see in this story that the children of Israel were walking dead.. they had no hope. because of the snake bites, they were condemned.

God told moses to lift the serpent. Whoever looked was rescued from death. They were saved at that moment..

In the same token, Jesus continues....

15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

we see in Jesus words.. That whoever believes will never perish (die) and they also will live forever (eternal life)

we also see. whoever believes is not condemned (will nto die) but whoever does not believe is in a state of condemnation already, they are still dead, unless they look to the cross in faith, as the children of Israel who trusted God looked to the serpent (a type of Christ)

this is when eternal life, and the rescue from condemnation occures

John the baptist re-iterated this fact

36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe we are "accounted" as worthy the same way we are '"accounted " as righteous and that's by faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6) We are not worthy or righteous "in of ourselves." (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

We have overcome the world.

How? Our faith

 

[Ritajanice]

Hey Epi, same old same old, I see what you mean.

I am now going to run, to dodge all them bullets.

Love you, Epi,xx

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Luk 20:35

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage



Luk 20:45

Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,



Luk 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man

How does one meet this state to be counted worthy?

 

[Episkopos]

How does one meet this state to be counted worthy?

Why would you care about your eternal condition apart from being saved?

 

[Titus]

Amen! Elsewhere in scripture, John draws a contrast between children of the devil and children of God. 1 John 1:6 - If we say (key word) that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth

John is speaking to christians in 1John 1:6-9,
You have a pretext.
Start believing the context.

John makes it crystal clear he is speaking to christians who have eternal life in the first chapter of his book 1John chapter 1,

1John 1:2,3
- the life was manifested and we(christians) have seen and bear witness and declare to you(christians) that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us(christians)

- that which we(christians) have seen and heard we(christians) declare to you(christians)
- that you(christians) ALSO MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH US(christians)
- and truly our(christians) fellowship IS WITH THE FATHER AND WITH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST

- and these things we write to you(christians) THAT YOUR JOY MAY BE FULL

- This is the message which we(christians) have heard from God and declare to you(christians)
- that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all

- If we(christians) say that we have fellowship with God and walk in darkness we(christians) lie and do not practice the truth

- but if we(christians) walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another(christians) and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us(christians) from all sin

- if we(christians) say that we(christians) have no sin, we(christians) decieve ourselves(christians) and the truth is not in us(christians)

- if we(christians) confess our(christians) sins God is faithful and just to forgive us(christians) our(christians) sins and to cleanse us(christians) from all unrighteousness

Chapter 2:1,
- My little children these things I write to you so that you may not sin and if anyone sins we(christians) have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous



Conclusion: John is teaching Christians here, there is no doubt.

To claim these who sin against God and are now walking in darkness until they repent, are not born again christians,
Is a pretext to insert unbiblical doctrine into these verses.

Hebrews 3:12,
- beware brethren(christians) lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in DEPARTING from the living God

Only christians can depart from God.
The lost are seperated from God,
Therefore cannot depart from Him.

Christians can walk in darkness and be seperated from God when we sin.
This is why John commands christians to repent of their sins so they can be forgiven and once again walk in the light with Christ.

1John 1:9,
- but if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

 

[marks]

You can just believe what the Bible says.
Or
You can continue to hold to unbiblical doctrine that contradicts the Bible.

I hope you choose the Bible over your presuppositions

I'm sorry, this is not the sort of discussion I'm here for.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would you care about your eternal condition apart from being saved?

She made a statement, I am asking her to clarify what she means.

 

[marks]

1 John 1:6-10 KJV
6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John speaks with an inclusive "we". The liar, who does not do the truth, who is deceived, who does not have the truth in him, who makes God a liar, who does not have God's word in them, this is not a Christian.

John is contrasting two different people, the one who is cleansed of sin, and the one who is a liar. To the one who is a liar, he shows how they can be cleansed from sin.

Mistaking this passage to be exclusively about Christians is the root of much confusion.

This passage regards the one who will not confess their sin, and who therefore is not forgiven, who then therefore is not a Christian, and the one who will, who does confess their sin, who is forgiven, who is cleansed.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

1 John 1:6-10 KJV
6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John speaks with an inclusive "we". The liar, who does not do the truth, who is deceived, who does not have the truth in him, who makes God a liar, who does not have God's word in them, this is not a Christian.

John is contrasting two different people, the one who is cleansed of sin, and the one who is a liar. To the one who is a liar, he shows how they can be cleansed from sin.

Mistaking this passage to be exclusively about Christians is the root of much confusion.

This passage regards the one who will not confess their sin, and who therefore is not forgiven, who then therefore is not a Christian, and the one who will, who does confess their sin, who is forgiven, who is cleansed.

Much love!

Amen and well said!

 

[Titus]

Amen and well said!

The lost are never told to repent of their sins without first being told to believe in Jesus.
If these folks in the first chapter of 1John are not born again christians then why are they not told to believe in Christ?

The lost have never been in the light with Christ yet the 1st. Chapter of 1John 1, these people have already been in the light with Christ.

1John 1:1,
- That which was from the beginning which we(Christians) have heard which we have seen with our eyes which we have looked upon and our hands have handled, concerning the Word(Jesus) of life

Deny the chapter is Christian's.

Danthemailman, then explain who the lost are in this book whom John is writing to?
These books are written to a group of people that read these letters.
Who are they?
Which lost group of people did John send these letters to, to read?

Being vague doesn't answer the question.
Tell me who these supposed lost people in chapter 1 come from?

John tells them to repent, 1John 1:9. Because they are already believers.
Never tells anyone to believe in Jesus, in 1John 1.

 

[marks]

Being vague doesn't answer the question.
Tell me who these supposed lost people in chapter 1 come from?

John writes to a mixed group, some Christians, some not, though perhaps they claim to be Christians. The visible church, some refer to as Christendom, "cultural Christianity", has both true and false within.

1 John 2:18-19 KJV
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those who leave show they were never true. What about those who are not true, but it hasn't been revealed yet, as they have not yet left? It is to these whom John writes. They claim to have fellowship with God, but they walk in darkness, so they are lying, and they don't actually have fellowship.

Much love!

 

[Titus]

Good point...makes sense to me. If they are called brethren in Christ to the one who hypothetically "murders" them (figuratively or literally) then the one who "murders" must be a brother/sister in Christ.

Christians can err. It is possible to backslide or fall away. As we have the example in the OT it is possible for the Holy Spirit to be grieved to the point of departing the temple/soul. And believers can be led astray. Bible also says those who go back under the Law are fallen from grace. The scriptures don't teach an attitude of complacency, but the opposite.

But I don't believe it necessarily happens easily to one who is truly born again. Three-fold cord isn't easily broken.

Good, folks that believe in OSAS, will always claim these brethren are not brothers in Christ or they will claim their faith was not true faith.
Biggest problem with teaching they never had true faith is,
JOHN NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR FAITH NOT BEING GENUINE.
I'm referring to the first chapter of 1John

That idea is inserted into the passage and we are just supposed to except that it is inferred.

The best example of this is the conversion of Simon the Sorcerer.
Acts 8:9,
- but there was a certain man named Simon the Sorcerer which before time in the city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria giving out that himself was some great one

Skip to,
Acts 8:12-13,
- but when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ they were baptized both men and women
-Then Simon himself believed  also and when he was baptized he continued with Philip and wondered beholding the miracles and signs which were done

Since Simon later sins and falls from Gods grace he is told by Peter to repent of his wickedness(sin).

So the OSAS group always deny the Simon had true faith.
They claim his belief was not genuine and that is why Peter told him to repent.

The problem with this is,
THE BIBLE SAID HE BELIEVED IN THE GOSPEL THAT PHILIP PREACHED.
The Bible says nothing about his faith not being genuine.

So the OSAS group once again tells everyone they are to just accept and infer that Simon did not really believe.

The Bible states he believed
OSAS folks say he did not.

I'm going to Believe what the Bible says not what some man tells me what to believe.

Simon was saved and told to repent,
Acts 8:22-23

Funny that Peter did not tell him to believe on Jesus.

Peter taught Simon exactly what John teaches Christians who sin in 1John 1:9,
- if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is how CHRISTIANS get back in Gods good grace.

Love you friend

 

[Titus]

1 John 2:18-19 KJV
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The audience from the scriptures you just quoted were NOT the antichrist.
You dont read things carefully enough.
John is speaking to the ones who are faithful not those who are unfaithful.

He says they went OUT from us(faithful)
The whole teaching is to the faithfull, that is his audience.
He is not speaking to lost people.
He is speaking to the saved.

 

[Titus]

John writes to a mixed group, some Christians, some not, though perhaps they claim to be Christians

Prove it, point out the unfaithful who are there listening to John?
John says they already went OUT from among them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The audience of the scriptures you just quoted were NOT the antichrist.
You dont read things carefully enough.
John is speaking to the ones who are faithful not those who are unfaithful.

He says they went OUT from us(faithful)
The whole teaching is to the faithfull, that is his audience.
He is not speaking to lost people.
He is speaking to the saved.

You missed the whole point

They were of us
They left us
They left to prove they were never of us.
They now deny Christ (hence they are called antichrist - against-Christ)

these people were not believers/saved then walked away and lost salvation.

they never had it,.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Prove it, point out the unfaithful who are there listening to John?
John says they already went OUT from among them

How about John 1..

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. and there is no truth in us (are these people saved without the truth)
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar - are these people saved? I doubt it..
if we say we have fellowship yet walk in darkness - Again, is this a true believer??

 

[marks]

You dont read things carefully enough.

I'm not interested in your "you" statements, and if you continue, that will be the reason I'll stop replying to you, it just gets old.

You know pretty much nothing about me, my reading capabilities, study habits and methods, nothing. Comments like this, and some made earlier, these do not address the material, and only serve to either attempt to bolster a weak argument by marginalizing the other person, or to vent because something rubbed you the wrong way, or whatever it is, it's not valid argument. Or interesting discussion.

Sorry to be blunt! You seem like a smart guy, I like smart people, and I'm here for smart discussion. Which this stuff isn't. So I'm hoping you can get past this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

folks that believe in OSAS, will always claim these brethren are not brothers in Christ or they will claim their faith was not true faith.

I would sooner say, As John wrote about the false being mixed in with the true, and that the true will remain, this supports that being a true Christian means you will remain that way. This seems to me to be a clear statement affirming the permanence of regeneration.

Much love!

 

[Titus]

How about John 1..

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. and there is no truth in us (are these people saved without the truth)
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar - are these people saved? I doubt it..
if we say we have fellowship yet walk in darkness - Again, is this a true believer??

Have you ever studied 123 John?
Who is John telling to confess their sins in 1John 1:9?
Those are the people he is speaking to.

They are in darkness until they repent of their sins.

Also explain why John is telling these folks to repent to get back walking in the light and not to believe on Jesus if they are not Christians?