Eternal Punishment Papers - Excerpt

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MatthewG

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It certainly sounds like God is a sovereign – even a despotic – God . . . at least that is the way Calvinism presents Him.

But then we read passages like James 1:3 which says:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”

Does this speak to free will of man? In the face of a sovereign God does man have free will?

Consider 1st John 1:5 which says:
“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, “that God is light,

and in him is no darkness at all.”

(beat)

There are so many passages that speak of God as loving, more merciful than a cold glass of water in a hot desert, more longsuffering than a thousand Jobs and more forgiving than any human parent.

How to understand?

Would a loving, good, kind, merciful God even create human beings, who He loves, for an eternal hell?

Go back with me, then – way back to before the world or the heavens were. To the “before all things.”

To the place where all we can say is “God.” The first and the last.
Did God know all things about all things prior to creating them? Absolutely.

We have to agree that He is . . .
- Omniscient (all knowing).
- Omnipotent (all powerful).
- Omnipresent (everywhere present).

Being all of these, being all things, being the first and the last, knowing the beginning to the end, did this God WHOM JOHN DESCRIBES AS LOVE know all things about each and every one of us . . . PRIOR to creating us?

(softly) He had to.

Not only because scripture says He did but because if He didn’t He could be surprised by our acts and if surprised then not in control of them – which is counter to scripture.

This leaves us facing a tremendous biblical conundrum. Enormous and one where the answers provided have plagued me since I could think.

We are told He is light. We are told He is love. But we are also told He is in control and He does what He will.

In response to this men have come along and made propositions.

Today we have men who are claiming something called Open Theism which suggests that God does not know everything, He is only fully prepared to response to what comes up.

Intellectually it is a reasonable response but the problem with it is it counters biblical representations of Him. I reject Open Theism as a non-biblical creation of Man.

Then there is Calvin.

He took these concepts and explained them in the form of what has come to be summarized by others in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

First, God, knowing all things, unconditionally created and elected some of us, before the foundation of the world, for eternal life and others for eternal hell.

Born of flesh and due to the Fall all of us are totally depraved (having no ability to choose God). Then God unconditionally elects (saves, regenerates) those whom He will “to life,” then Jesus came and suffered only for the sins of those whom God elected to save (limited atonement). And because God always gets His way those whom He has elected cannot refuse His call (irresistible grace) and then finally, once He calls or elects a person they will persevere – endure to the end / Once Saved Always Saved because God does not give them a choice . . . His will will be done!

The system is workable through much of scripture but it does not, in my mind, answer a number of other significant descriptions of God and His heart.

For instance

Isaiah 55:8-11 comes to mind where He says

“For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

And then, knowing God is love and good, how are we to understand Isaiah 45:9-11 where God says:

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

As a God of love from eternity to eternity, what is His pleasure, His will, His purpose?

What does Jeremiah 29:11 mean when God says

“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”

What does it mean in the face of all this information when we read in 2nd Peter 3:9 that

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

OR what does 1st Timothy 2:3-4 mean which says

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth?”

Somehow we have to come to terms with ALL of this information – not just some of it and NOT embracing what generations of Men and Women have taught and believed if it is NOT right nor biblically sound.

(beat)

So go with me (again) back to the beginning – prior to where God created the heavens and the earth and all that in them is.

IF God knew He was going to create beings that would become kindling for hell, burning forever and ever and ever in real flames and created them anyway, calling it, His Good Pleasure, we have a serious problem with the other passages that call Him love, and good, and merciful, and Holy.

Calvinism has provided the word with a myopic and therefore limited view of God – emphasizing His sovereignty while either ignoring or redefining what love is.

On the other hand, Arminianism, a response to Calvinism, refutes God’s Sovereignty and places salvation in the hands of man who is responsible for freely choosing all things and then being responsible for keeping his salvation thereafter.

Is there a reasonable, biblical response that offers us a solution to these seemingly contradictory issues and if there is, what does it ultimately reveal to us?

I would strongly suggest there is an alternative view – neither Calvinistic nor Arminianist – that is wholly biblical.

Let me say this from the start – I want nothing to do with the philosophies of Man. I do not want to tickle ears or please men instead of honoring God.


*For more information on this you can find where to purchase and download as pdf, if you so choose and look more into what is presented.
 
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Robert Gwin

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It certainly sounds like God is a sovereign – even a despotic – God . . . at least that is the way Calvinism presents Him.

But then we read passages like James 1:3 which says:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”

Does this speak to free will of man? In the face of a sovereign God does man have free will?

Consider 1st John 1:5 which says:
“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, “that God is light,

and in him is no darkness at all.”

(beat)

There are so many passages that speak of God as loving, more merciful than a cold glass of water in a hot desert, more longsuffering than a thousand Jobs and more forgiving than any human parent.

How to understand?

Would a loving, good, kind, merciful God even create human beings, who He loves, for an eternal hell?

Go back with me, then – way back to before the world or the heavens were. To the “before all things.”

To the place where all we can say is “God.” The first and the last.
Did God know all things about all things prior to creating them? Absolutely.

We have to agree that He is . . .
- Omniscient (all knowing).
- Omnipotent (all powerful).
- Omnipresent (everywhere present).

Being all of these, being all things, being the first and the last, knowing the beginning to the end, did this God WHOM JOHN DESCRIBES AS LOVE know all things about each and every one of us . . . PRIOR to creating us?

(softly) He had to.

Not only because scripture says He did but because if He didn’t He could be surprised by our acts and if surprised then not in control of them – which is counter to scripture.

This leaves us facing a tremendous biblical conundrum. Enormous and one where the answers provided have plagued me since I could think.

We are told He is light. We are told He is love. But we are also told He is in control and He does what He will.

In response to this men have come along and made propositions.

Today we have men who are claiming something called Open Theism which suggests that God does not know everything, He is only fully prepared to response to what comes up.

Intellectually it is a reasonable response but the problem with it is it counters biblical representations of Him. I reject Open Theism as a non-biblical creation of Man.

Then there is Calvin.

He took these concepts and explained them in the form of what has come to be summarized by others in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

First, God, knowing all things, unconditionally created and elected some of us, before the foundation of the world, for eternal life and others for eternal hell.

Born of flesh and due to the Fall all of us are totally depraved (having no ability to choose God). Then God unconditionally elects (saves, regenerates) those whom He will “to life,” then Jesus came and suffered only for the sins of those whom God elected to save (limited atonement). And because God always gets His way those whom He has elected cannot refuse His call (irresistible grace) and then finally, once He calls or elects a person they will persevere – endure to the end / Once Saved Always Saved because God does not give them a choice . . . His will will be done!

The system is workable through much of scripture but it does not, in my mind, answer a number of other significant descriptions of God and His heart.

For instance

Isaiah 55:8-11 comes to mind where He says

“For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

And then, knowing God is love and good, how are we to understand Isaiah 45:9-11 where God says:

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

As a God of love from eternity to eternity, what is His pleasure, His will, His purpose?

What does Jeremiah 29:11 mean when God says

“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”

What does it mean in the face of all this information when we read in 2nd Peter 3:9 that

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

OR what does 1st Timothy 2:3-4 mean which says

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth?”

Somehow we have to come to terms with ALL of this information – not just some of it and NOT embracing what generations of Men and Women have taught and believed if it is NOT right nor biblically sound.

(beat)

So go with me (again) back to the beginning – prior to where God created the heavens and the earth and all that in them is.

IF God knew He was going to create beings that would become kindling for hell, burning forever and ever and ever in real flames and created them anyway, calling it, His Good Pleasure, we have a serious problem with the other passages that call Him love, and good, and merciful, and Holy.

Calvinism has provided the word with a myopic and therefore limited view of God – emphasizing His sovereignty while either ignoring or redefining what love is.

On the other hand, Arminianism, a response to Calvinism, refutes God’s Sovereignty and places salvation in the hands of man who is responsible for freely choosing all things and then being responsible for keeping his salvation thereafter.

Is there a reasonable, biblical response that offers us a solution to these seemingly contradictory issues and if there is, what does it ultimately reveal to us?

I would strongly suggest there is an alternative view – neither Calvinistic nor Arminianist – that is wholly biblical.

Let me say this from the start – I want nothing to do with the philosophies of Man. I do not want to tickle ears or please men instead of honoring God.


*For more information on this you can find where to purchase and download as pdf, if you so choose and look more into what is presented.

God makes it easy for us Matt, He offers life or death, and we have the free will to choose. Any sane person would instantly say, I choose life, however the Bible seems to indicate that the vast majority do not, why? I think a great deal is selfishness, an unwillingness to give and obey. You and I know that God's commandments prove to be no hardship, and by obeying them we not only have chosen life, but we show that we love God 1 Jn 5:3.

I don't really know if one can consider this fortunate, but I consider it fortunate that I have lived both the world, as well as being a Christian, do I still have the desires common to those of the world, yes. But because of living those desires, and contrasting it to my many yrs as living God's laws, I can truthfully state that living by Jehovah's regulations has given me the best life possible in our imperfect state.
 

MatthewG

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Dropbox - Eternal-Punishment.pdf - Simplify your life - This link is a PDF to the shown first 1 post.

More information on this type of work found at www.cult.love where this 1,000+ hours of verse by verse studies on the Apostolic Record, as well as going now through the New Testament, there are courses you can take if you desire some cost a little bit of money, and to register it is $3.16, no membership commitments or anything like that you just can join can choose what you would like to learn about, there is also discussion boards, and also publications to other articles that can be used.

The Link provided is for study purposes only (Biblical Consideration), and all rights reserved to the publisher, Shawn McCraney.

Thank you for your time.
 

MatthewG

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Free to look at PDF, for consideration only do not have to take it as truth.

God bless.
 

ChristisGod

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It certainly sounds like God is a sovereign – even a despotic – God . . . at least that is the way Calvinism presents Him.

But then we read passages like James 1:3 which says:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”

Does this speak to free will of man? In the face of a sovereign God does man have free will?

Consider 1st John 1:5 which says:
“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, “that God is light,

and in him is no darkness at all.”

(beat)

There are so many passages that speak of God as loving, more merciful than a cold glass of water in a hot desert, more longsuffering than a thousand Jobs and more forgiving than any human parent.

How to understand?

Would a loving, good, kind, merciful God even create human beings, who He loves, for an eternal hell?

Go back with me, then – way back to before the world or the heavens were. To the “before all things.”

To the place where all we can say is “God.” The first and the last.
Did God know all things about all things prior to creating them? Absolutely.

We have to agree that He is . . .
- Omniscient (all knowing).
- Omnipotent (all powerful).
- Omnipresent (everywhere present).

Being all of these, being all things, being the first and the last, knowing the beginning to the end, did this God WHOM JOHN DESCRIBES AS LOVE know all things about each and every one of us . . . PRIOR to creating us?

(softly) He had to.

Not only because scripture says He did but because if He didn’t He could be surprised by our acts and if surprised then not in control of them – which is counter to scripture.

This leaves us facing a tremendous biblical conundrum. Enormous and one where the answers provided have plagued me since I could think.

We are told He is light. We are told He is love. But we are also told He is in control and He does what He will.

In response to this men have come along and made propositions.

Today we have men who are claiming something called Open Theism which suggests that God does not know everything, He is only fully prepared to response to what comes up.

Intellectually it is a reasonable response but the problem with it is it counters biblical representations of Him. I reject Open Theism as a non-biblical creation of Man.

Then there is Calvin.

He took these concepts and explained them in the form of what has come to be summarized by others in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

First, God, knowing all things, unconditionally created and elected some of us, before the foundation of the world, for eternal life and others for eternal hell.

Born of flesh and due to the Fall all of us are totally depraved (having no ability to choose God). Then God unconditionally elects (saves, regenerates) those whom He will “to life,” then Jesus came and suffered only for the sins of those whom God elected to save (limited atonement). And because God always gets His way those whom He has elected cannot refuse His call (irresistible grace) and then finally, once He calls or elects a person they will persevere – endure to the end / Once Saved Always Saved because God does not give them a choice . . . His will will be done!

The system is workable through much of scripture but it does not, in my mind, answer a number of other significant descriptions of God and His heart.

For instance

Isaiah 55:8-11 comes to mind where He says

“For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

And then, knowing God is love and good, how are we to understand Isaiah 45:9-11 where God says:

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

As a God of love from eternity to eternity, what is His pleasure, His will, His purpose?

What does Jeremiah 29:11 mean when God says

“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”

What does it mean in the face of all this information when we read in 2nd Peter 3:9 that

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

OR what does 1st Timothy 2:3-4 mean which says

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth?”

Somehow we have to come to terms with ALL of this information – not just some of it and NOT embracing what generations of Men and Women have taught and believed if it is NOT right nor biblically sound.

(beat)

So go with me (again) back to the beginning – prior to where God created the heavens and the earth and all that in them is.

IF God knew He was going to create beings that would become kindling for hell, burning forever and ever and ever in real flames and created them anyway, calling it, His Good Pleasure, we have a serious problem with the other passages that call Him love, and good, and merciful, and Holy.

Calvinism has provided the word with a myopic and therefore limited view of God – emphasizing His sovereignty while either ignoring or redefining what love is.

On the other hand, Arminianism, a response to Calvinism, refutes God’s Sovereignty and places salvation in the hands of man who is responsible for freely choosing all things and then being responsible for keeping his salvation thereafter.

Is there a reasonable, biblical response that offers us a solution to these seemingly contradictory issues and if there is, what does it ultimately reveal to us?

I would strongly suggest there is an alternative view – neither Calvinistic nor Arminianist – that is wholly biblical.

Let me say this from the start – I want nothing to do with the philosophies of Man. I do not want to tickle ears or please men instead of honoring God.


*For more information on this you can find where to purchase and download as pdf, if you so choose and look more into what is presented.
Can I ask what is the source for everything said in this post ?

Did you write all of this yourself ?

Thanks
 

MatthewG

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You should just simply be able to click the link and Dropbox will open up the pdf for you, you will see all the information located in it, the link is in post 3 no has commented to say it doesn’t work anymore or anything. It is not a virus or someone would have done said sometime surely, no need in anyones contact information you can view it as a guest. (You might have to make a Dropbox account but I also doubt it).