Eternal Security

[Nancy]

It is not hard once you know the true meaning of grace. It is power.

1. The law showed us our sin, and our sinful flesh wanted unrighteousness more than to obey.

2. The power of God in us by the Spirit defeated our old sinful flesh so the righteous requirement of the old law could be supernaturally fulfilled in us. Not by our own willpower, but by new desires born of the Spirit that loves righteousness.

And you shall receive power... That is grace.

Exactly, well put. If it were our own willpower, that would just mean that we think we can save ourselves-HA!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, the Holy Spirit did not become one with the egg. It caused the egg to be fertilized with the necessary DNA to make a human male child (100% human, 0% God).

Yes, Jesus was 100% human, but with a unique quality. He had the seed of the Father in Him. That is how he remained sinless from birth. This same seed is available to us humans when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit, and allows us to have the same power over sin. 1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I do not obey to be saved. What I meant was, if Christians teach that the Sabbath is abolished, for example, then it is impossible for them to obey that commandment.

A Christian can certainly obey that commandment even if he believes that obedience to it is unnecessary for salvation, was my point.

 

[gadar perets]

The apostles say otherwise. 1 John 3:9

The same apostle wrote;

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Yeshua Messiah the righteous:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
​

1 John 3:9 refers to practicing sin.

 

[gadar perets]

A Christian can certainly obey that commandment even if he believes that obedience to it is unnecessary for salvation, was my point.

Yes, but we are not discussing salvation. We are discussing a person who is already saved choosing to obey the law out of love for the Father.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We must choose to obey and the Spirit will empower us to do so. We can also choose to disobey in which case the flesh wins the battle.

Yes, we can choose to disobey. That is called "quenching the Spirit." But once you have that freedom from sinful desires, it is hard to want to go back as a dog would to his own vomit. But it is possible.

What we should be focusing on is walking in the Spirit. Staying focused on sin once you've been freed is like going back to kindergarten. We should be encouraging each other to walk boldly in the freedom God has given us - IF we have the Spirit. Unfortunately, not everyone calling themselves believers in the Messiah, or Jesus, or whatever you want to call the Son, actually have repented from sin, so they don't have the Spirit, without which you cannot be holy. Without holiness, no man shall see God, Hebrews 12:14. They will just keep on sinning.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The same apostle wrote;

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Yeshua Messiah the righteous:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
​

1 John 3:9 refers to practicing sin.

Wrong, the meaning in the Greek is not practice, but a singular, commit.

1 John 2:1 is about trespasses, not willful sins unto death. (Nothing referring to repentance is mentioned which would be required if "willful."

 

[gadar perets]

Good night.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, the Holy Spirit did not become one with the egg. It caused the egg to be fertilized with the necessary DNA to make a human male child (100% human, 0% God).

This indicates to me that if you were to die tonight, it would be in your sins (John 8:24).

I agree. Why do you keep bringing up salvation by law keeping? That is a pitiful Christian argument to make law keeping seem wrong.

I was not attempting to make law-keeping seem wrong. I point it out because salvation is not by law-keeping. In fact, law-keeping is a method of salvation that attempts to compete with faith in Jesus as the only means of salvation. It is not possible to be saved through law-keeping (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48). The only way in is through faith in God's shed blood (John 14:6, Acts of the Apostles 20:28).

The more you do them, the better you get at doing them and the easier they become. I have been doing those things for 33 years. They are a normal part of my life and so easy to obey.

Nevertheless my motivation for obeying God's word is not in order to be saved; for I am already saved through Christ's shed blood. Therefore when I simply walk according to the love of God's Spirit (Romans 5:5), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4) apart from obedience to the letter of the law (Romans 7:6). Because all of the law is fulfilled in one word: namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself (Galatians 5:14).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Good night.

Good night. Thanks for letting us know you are leaving for tonight.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nevertheless my motivation for obeying God's word is not in order to be saved; for I am already saved through Christ's shed blood. Therefore when I simply walk according to the love of God's Spirit (Romans 5:5), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4) apart from obedience to the letter of the law (Romans 7:6). Because all of the law is fulfilled in one word: namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself (Galatians 5:14).

You have finally said something I agree with, because you have finally acknowledged the Holy Spirit, instead of taking all the credit for yourself because you love Christ. Now, if you could only learn, then acknowledge the full extent of what the Spirit has done: You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if you have the Spirit of God in you. And if not, then you don't belong to Christ. You are no longer a sinner - that is your past, not your present. You are now a son. If you are still a sinner, which would mean you keep sinning, you don't have the Spirit. 1 John 3:5-9. John 8:34-36

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, but we are not discussing salvation. We are discussing a person who is already saved choosing to obey the law out of love for the Father.

Doctrine of salvation is intertwined with that issue. It must be clear that biblical obedience is the result of faith in Jesus and not in order to obtain, maintain, or earn salvation. We obey because we are thankful to Him for what He has done for us; we love Jesus much because we have been forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

If someone is obedient apart from faith in Jesus Christ, such an obedience has no power to save them (Ephesians 2:9 and context).

If a person is going to save himself through his own obedience, he had better obey the law perfectly from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

 

[justbyfaith]

You have finally said something I agree with, because you have finally acknowledged the Holy Spirit, instead of taking all the credit for yourself because you love Christ. Now, if you could only learn, then acknowledge the full extent of what the Spirit has done: You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if you have the Spirit of God in you. And if not, then you don't belong to Christ. You are no longer a sinner - that is your past, not your present. You are now a son. If you are still a sinner, which would mean you keep sinning, you don't have the Spirit. 1 John 3:5-9. John 8:34-36

How do you interpret 1 Timothy 1:15? Does it not say that it is a trustworthy saying to call myself a sinner to the public?

And I have never taken credit for myself because I love Christ. Is not love for Christ given by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5)? All the glory goes to Him: for He is the One who has shed abroad His love in my heart. It had nothing to do with me except for the response of faith that brought me into a relationship with Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

Forgive me if I am wrong but, are you saying that Christians do not ever sin?? That they live sinless lives, just like Jesus?? Do you not know that we all have a parasite called "sin" living in us? When Paul wrote, “We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” he wasn't referring to the activity of committing sins, he was talking about living under the dominion of sin. The word live means to continue in or abide in.

1st John 5:16 “If anyone sees his brother” — a Christian — “committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life.” <---- Tells me that Christians can indeed sin.

1 John 1:8–10. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

You're talking to @1stCenturyLady, I presume? Because I am certainly not saying any of that.

 

[Nancy]

You're talking to @1stCenturyLady, I presume? Because I am certainly not saying any of that.

Sry...will fix..

 

[Nancy]

Yes, Jesus was 100% human, but with a unique quality. He had the seed of the Father in Him. That is how he remained sinless from birth. This same seed is available to us humans when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit, and allows us to have the same power over sin. 1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Forgive me if I am wrong but, are you saying that Christians do not ever sin?? That they live sinless lives, just like Jesus?? Do you not know that we all have a parasite called "sin" living in us? When Paul wrote, “We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” he wasn't referring to the activity of committing sins, he was talking about living under the dominion of sin. The word live means to continue in or abide in.

1st John 5:16 “If anyone sees his brother” — a Christian — “committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life.” <---- Tells me that Christians can indeed sin.

1 John 1:8–10. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How do you interpret 1 Timothy 1:15? Does it not say that it is a trustworthy saying to call myself a sinner to the public?

How do I interpret 1 Timothy 1:15? It doesn't matter how bad a sinner you were when you came to Christ. Paul said he was the worst (he killed Christians). But he's not contradicting himself by telling us we are what he couldn't be. So your interpretation is fleshly. Many use this verse to justify their own sin as a sinner, never knowing the freedom from sin that makes us sons and daughters.

 

[justbyfaith]

You have finally said something I agree with, because you have finally acknowledged the Holy Spirit, instead of taking all the credit for yourself because you love Christ. Now, if you could only learn, then acknowledge the full extent of what the Spirit has done: You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if you have the Spirit of God in you. And if not, then you don't belong to Christ. You are no longer a sinner - that is your past, not your present. You are now a son. If you are still a sinner, which would mean you keep sinning, you don't have the Spirit. 1 John 3:5-9. John 8:34-36

I would qualify my statements by saying that the law dictates to us the specifics of the love of God (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6)..

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And I have never taken credit for myself because I love Christ. Is not love for Christ given by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5)?

Oh, but you have. Every time you didn't acknowledge the Spirit, but merely said you obey because you love Christ. That is willpower, not supernatural.

All the glory goes to Him: for He is the One who has shed abroad His love in my heart. It had nothing to do with me except for the response of faith that brought me into a relationship with Christ.

FINALLY! Yay!!!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Good night.