Eternal Security

[justbyfaith]

Man has a "sinful nature" but sin is "transgression of the LAW" according to the actual Bible - see 1 John 3:4

The lost have no power against sin they "do not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-10


...it boils down to independence from the Lord.



Indeed. Before the LAW was given at Sinai -- people were sinning no matter that it was not "written on stone".

The LAW came 430 years AFTER Abraham - that is when it was "written on stone".

Gal 3: 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise..

But God's "spoken Word" is LAW and so LAW existed BEFORE it was "written on stone"

Genesis 26:3...and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham.
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”



No it is not. There is no text saying "the Law was not in effect until Sinai" and we all know it.

That means it was "SIN" for Cain to kill Abel "SIN is crouching at your door" Genesis 4
That means it was "SIN" For Joseph to give in to adultery "How can I commit this great SIN against God" Genesis
It would always be "SIN" to "Take God's name in vain" -- at every point in history.

Almost All Christian Scholarship admits to this existence of the LAW of God from Adam to this very day.

The sinful nature of man from Adam to this very day -- is a nature with a "bent" toward sin.
Sin "IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- by definition.



That is creative writing - it is not scripture.



1. Sin is not imputed to the sinner who sins. Rather the sinner who sins is guilty without the sin being imputed.
2. Sin IS imputed to descendants of the sinner - as being among the race of sinners.



More creative writing?

Genesis 26:3...and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham.
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

That means it was "SIN" for Cain to kill Abel "SIN is crouching at your door" Genesis 4
That means it was "SIN" For Joseph to give in to adultery "How can I commit this great SIN against God" Genesis
It would always be "SIN" to "Take God's name in vain" -- at every point in history.



And I choose to believe the actual Word of God... to each his own. You have free will.




It means to credit without the item being earned - rather it is credited -- assigned.

For example - Justification by faith - at the moment of justification you have Christ's righteousness imputed to you.

You should read a man's entire post before responding to the first few sentences...Proverbs 18:13. I don't intend this as a rebuke per se...only as a tidbit of wisdom for future reference.

 

[Episkopos]

This is how iniquity works...

A Christian believes He/she is saved...and somehow that qualifies them to judge all things. But show that same "saved" person a verse with a difficult truth...and that person will deny it. So then the judgment is carnal...not spiritual. It is only spiritual people that are qualified to judge anything at all.

So then...GOD JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY... only works for them....in reference to themselves...not others. Which means then that they are really NOT justified themselves. We have to believe in the God who indeed justifies the ungodly. VERY few can do this....unless they let go of their own carnal judgments. The scandal is that God doesn't get our approval before He justifies someone. This can be very offensive to some.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you really want to understand the bible...you need to try not eliminating one truth by misunderstanding another and having them cancel each other out. You are the one who chose that verse that says God justifies the ungodly....but you actually don't believe it. If I recite the verse back to you...you deny it. See to your own ways...

You are assuming that people who become Christians don't start out as ungodly, or even retain some ungodliness after they become Christians.

Ungodly is not speaking of people of other religions being justified apart from faith in Jesus. Such an idea would be contrary to scripture (Matthew 7:13-14, John 14:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

This is how iniquity works...

A Christian believes He/she is saved...and somehow that qualifies them to judge all things. But show that same "saved" person a verse with a difficult truth...and that person will deny it. So then the judgment is carnal...not spiritual. It is only spiritual people that are qualified to judge anything at all.

So then...GOD JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY... only works for them....in reference to themselves...not others. Which means then that they are really NOT justified themselves. We have to believe in the God who indeed justifies the ungodly. VERY few can do this....unless they let go of their own carnal judgments.

What are you trying to preach...Universalism?

That anyone can be justified apart from faith in Jesus and his shed blood is a concept that is contrary to scripture...period.

 

[justbyfaith]

So then...GOD JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY... only works for them....in reference to themselves...not others.

It works for anyone who will enter in through the door (John 10:1-9)...not just me, myself, and I.

 

[Episkopos]

It works for anyone who will enter in through the door (John 10:1-9)...not just me, myself, and I.

A person who goes through the door is no longer ungodly....so then you are in error still. You are trying to fit God's ways in a box that you are comfortable with. A person who knows God would never think of doing such a thing.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus is indeed referring to the fact that He is the great I AM in John 8:24. If you do not want to believe this then please search your heart as to why that is so that God can deal with the problem before it is too late for you. You are taking an awful chance in your interpretation; for if I am right and you are wrong, you will die in your sins if you continue to hold your opinion (and perish before you change your mind).

I am not persuaded by Christians that try to scare me into submission. It will take a lot more than that to move me to commit idolatry by worshiping Yeshua as the I AM.

In case you haven't noticed, the I AM of Exodus 3 said;

Exo 3:6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
​

So YHWH, the great I AM, gave Moses a triple witness of who He is. Peter confirmed this in Acts 3:13;

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
​

By these four verses we learn (among other things) 1) That YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 2) that YHWH is the great I AM 3) that Yeshua is the Son of that same God, the Son of YHWH, the Son of the great I AM 3) that that same God did not become the Son 4) that Yeshua is not YHWH and 5) that Yeshua is NOT the great I AM.

It is not me that needs to fear losing my salvation by believing these verses, but you who needs to fear being judged for living a life of idolatry. Hopefully, Yeshua's Father, the great I AM, will have mercy on you for doing so in ignorance.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I am not persuaded by Christians that try to scare me into submission. It will take a lot more than that to move me to commit idolatry by worshiping Yeshua as the I AM.

In case you haven't noticed, the I AM of Exodus 3 said;

Exo 3:6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
​

So YHWH, the great I AM, gave Moses a triple witness of who He is. Peter confirmed this in Acts 3:13;

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
​

By these four verses we learn (among other things) 1) That YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 2) that YHWH is the great I AM 3) that Yeshua is the Son of that same God, the Son of YHWH, the Son of the great I AM 3) that that same God did not become the Son 4) that Yeshua is not YHWH and 5) that Yeshua is NOT the great I AM.

It is not me that needs to fear losing my salvation by believing these verses, but you who needs to fear being judged for living a life of idolatry. Hopefully, Yeshua's Father, the great I AM, will have mercy on you for doing so in ignorance.

Now you sound like a Moslem

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am not persuaded by Christians that try to scare me into submission. It will take a lot more than that to move me to commit idolatry by worshiping Yeshua as the I AM.

In case you haven't noticed, the I AM of Exodus 3 said;

Exo 3:6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
​

So YHWH, the great I AM, gave Moses a triple witness of who He is. Peter confirmed this in Acts 3:13;

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
​

By these four verses we learn (among other things) 1) That YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 2) that YHWH is the great I AM 3) that Yeshua is the Son of that same God, the Son of YHWH, the Son of the great I AM 3) that that same God did not become the Son 4) that Yeshua is not YHWH and 5) that Yeshua is NOT the great I AM.

It is not me that needs to fear losing my salvation by believing these verses, but you who needs to fear being judged for living a life of idolatry. Hopefully, Yeshua's Father, the great I AM, will have mercy on you for doing so in ignorance.

Talk about lack of understanding...

 

[gadar perets]

See John 5:17-18. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John testifies under inspiration of the Holy Spirit that Jesus broke the sabbath (and also made Himself equal to God the Father in His statements).

How is this possible since Jesus was indeed sinless? He came as High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec. And because there was a change of priesthood, there was of necessity a change also of the law (Hebrews 7:12). So Jesus could break the sabbath and remain blameless. Jesus did indeed break the sabbath, in claiming that He was working on that sabbath day; and also in that He told the lame man in the context of the story to pick up his mat and walk. In giving the lame man this commandment, He by proxy disobeyed the sabbath. He was teaching people to violate the sabbath, in fact, by commanding the lame man to violate it that day. He was setting forth an example in His teaching. And yet Jesus was still without sin. Why? Because His priesthood wasn't after a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life. He was and is perfect in His nature and character; and therefore, if He violated some letter of a law that He Himself had established, He was not at fault. The violation of the letter of that law didn't change the fact of His nature and character; which is immutable as God (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8).

The work Yeshua did in John 5 was the spiritual work of healing which was never against the law of YHWH, but only against the foolish man-made laws of the Jews which Yeshua rebuked them for. Yeshua NEVER did forbidden work on the Sabbath and he NEVER broke it. That is why he was sinless. Nor did he cause the lame man to sin by picking up his mat. YHWH never forbid such an action. It was the foolish Jewish man-made law that said carrying anything on the Sabbath was forbidden. They took that so far that a person could not carry a handkerchief in his pocket!

John testified under inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the Jews persecuted Yeshua for healing on the Sabbath because that is how they falsely viewed his actions. They also falsely accused him of making himself equal to God by saying God was his Father. Saying God is one's Father does NOT make one equal to God. I say God is my Father and God is my Abba, but that does not mean I am His equal. Yeshua even taught us to call God "our Father". Are we all guilty of making ourselves equal to God??

Also, Hebrews 7:12 does NOT mean the law was changed allowing Yeshua or us to break the Sabbath. The law that was changed was the law forbidding anyone to be high priest except for a son of Aaron. It was changed via the oath of Psalm 110:4 which now allows a priest after the order of Melchizedek to be high priest.

You have a lot more studying to do young man.

 

[gadar perets]

YHWH became flesh, so He is a physical being in that sense.

YHWH became flesh ONLY in the minds of deceived people.

 

[gadar perets]

Now you sound like a Moslem

Why don't you cease with your personal attacks and show me how my exposition of the Scriptures I gave is wrong?

Talk about lack of understanding...

And your understanding of those verse is .....?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

YHWH became flesh ONLY in the minds of deceived people.

Scripture does not agree with you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why don't you cease with your personal attacks and show me how my exposition of the Scriptures I gave is wrong?

And your understanding of those verse is .....?

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Jesus, Himself, was claiming to be the I Am of Exodus 3:14.

 

[Episkopos]

YHWH became flesh ONLY in the minds of deceived people.

First a lesson in logic and reading comprehension...(before the Holy Spirit inspires it would help if people learned some reading comprehension)

If a text says..."Thus says Jim, I want to let you know that Jim has sent me. My name is Jim and Jim has sent me."

In the above quotes...how many Jim's are there?

 

[gadar perets]

First a lesson in logic and reading comprehension...(before the Holy Spirit inspires it would help if people learned some reading comprehension)

If a text says..."Thus says Jim, I want to let you know that Jim has sent me. My name is Jim and Jim has sent me."

In the above quotes...how many Jim's are there?

Four.

 

[Enoch111]

YHWH became flesh ONLY in the minds of deceived people.

Since all conservative Christians believe that YHWH became flesh, because the Word is GOD (THEOS) (John 1:1) you are making a wild and baseless accusation. Evidently you are the one who is deceived, since only the cults, unbelieving Jews, and Muslims deny the deity of Christ.

Our eternal security is based on THE FACT that God took human form, obeyed the Law perfectly, and offered the one perfect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, by becoming the Lamb of God.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God (Theos), which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28).

 

[gadar perets]

Since all conservative Christians believe that YHWH became flesh, since the Word is GOD (THEOS) (John 1:1) you are making a wild and baseless accusation. Evidently you are the one who is deceived, since only the cults, unbelieving Jews, and Muslims deny the deity of Christ.

I base my claim on what is found in Scripture, not what is read into Scripture.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why don't you cease with your personal attacks and show me how my exposition of the Scriptures I gave is wrong?

And your understanding of those verse is .....?

You sound like a mohamedan

 

[Episkopos]

Four.

LOL....OK At least you're tracking! But there are two (2) men named Jim in the text. One being sent and the other doing the sending. If you understand this then you will also understand how the bible is written... Take your time with this...

Zech. 2: 8 For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. 9 For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

10 “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord. 11 “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.

There are 2 Lord of hosts here...One doing the sending and one being sent.