EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM !
- Thread starter JLB
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The "abomination of desolation" Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is NOT... about literal destruction of Jerusalem.
Instead, it's about the setting up of an IDOL in false worship inside a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, as per the pattern of Antiochus in 165-170 B.C.
And lo, the orthodox unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem today have the materials ready to build another temple, showing the prophecy is going to happen just like Jesus said.
So anyone trying to say that "abomination of desolation" prophecy is about the Romans destroying Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is trying to deceive the brethren.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, veteran.
No, brother, I'm not trying to deceive; I'm trying to DIG US BACK OUT OF THE MIRE OF DECEPTION!
Let's look at this logically: Yeshua` used Dani'el's prophecy within the Olivet Discourse. That's a given.
However, the passages that talk about "abomination of desolation" must find that in Dani'el 7, Dani'el 9, Dani'el 11, or Dani'el 12.
When a prophecy is fulfilled, it is FULFILLED! There cannot be "two fulfillments" to the same prophecy or one has confusion, and "God is not the author of confusion."
IF a prophecy could have more than one fulfillment, then how is one to determine when that prophecy is fulfilled?! He CANNOT determine when!
Furthermore, we know that the Isra'eliym of Mosheh's day were told to judge the divinity of the prophecy by the fulfillment of that prophecy! IF the prophecy did not come true, the prophet was to be taken outside the city and stoned! If one couldn't judge the fulfillment of the prophecy, then how would one be able to judge the prophet?!
Thus, when a prophecy was fulfilled, it should be so marked and discarded from the list of prophecies yet to be fulfilled.
By your own admission, the prophecies of Dani'el 7 and 11 have to do with Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Indeed, one can look at Dani'el 11 and match it with history from the last few kings of Persia, Alexander the Great, his generals, and the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Empires, through Antiochus IV, all the way down to Herod and Augustus Caesar. So, these prophecies, having been fulfilled, are DONE! Mark them "Done," and check them off the list!
Dani'el 12 refers back to Dani'el 11; so, it too is DONE! Mark it "Done," and check it off the list!
Only Dani'el 9:24-27 could be what Yeshua` used in His Olivet Discourse.
No, brother, I'm not trying to deceive; I'm trying to DIG US BACK OUT OF THE MIRE OF DECEPTION!
Let's look at this logically: Yeshua` used Dani'el's prophecy within the Olivet Discourse. That's a given.
However, the passages that talk about "abomination of desolation" must find that in Dani'el 7, Dani'el 9, Dani'el 11, or Dani'el 12.
When a prophecy is fulfilled, it is FULFILLED! There cannot be "two fulfillments" to the same prophecy or one has confusion, and "God is not the author of confusion."
IF a prophecy could have more than one fulfillment, then how is one to determine when that prophecy is fulfilled?! He CANNOT determine when!
Furthermore, we know that the Isra'eliym of Mosheh's day were told to judge the divinity of the prophecy by the fulfillment of that prophecy! IF the prophecy did not come true, the prophet was to be taken outside the city and stoned! If one couldn't judge the fulfillment of the prophecy, then how would one be able to judge the prophet?!
Thus, when a prophecy was fulfilled, it should be so marked and discarded from the list of prophecies yet to be fulfilled.
By your own admission, the prophecies of Dani'el 7 and 11 have to do with Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Indeed, one can look at Dani'el 11 and match it with history from the last few kings of Persia, Alexander the Great, his generals, and the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Empires, through Antiochus IV, all the way down to Herod and Augustus Caesar. So, these prophecies, having been fulfilled, are DONE! Mark them "Done," and check them off the list!
Dani'el 12 refers back to Dani'el 11; so, it too is DONE! Mark it "Done," and check it off the list!
Only Dani'el 9:24-27 could be what Yeshua` used in His Olivet Discourse.
He said "Pattern of Antiochus Epiphanes" not that being the fulfillment! You are trying to deceive!
Not as you say - " DIG US BACK OUT OF THE MIRE OF DECEPTION"!
The Daniel Prophecy is linked to the "Last days" just like the words of Jesus being linked to "Time of the end" and you know this very well as it has been explained over and over to you.
Only Dani'el 9:24-27 could be what Yeshua` used in His Olivet Discourse.
Daniel 12:9-13
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished. 8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."
This scripture has NOT BEEN FULFILLED AND WE ARE NOT SCRATCHING IT OF THE LIST!
Furthermore, anyone trying to deceive the brethren with deceptive doctrines of demons for the purpose of "embracing a false messiah" before the True Messiah "comes in the clouds with great power and glory" and "EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM" is a liar!
Every eye will see Him means nobody will have to tell you He has returned - "for as lightning strikes in the east and is seen in the west so shall it be with the coming of The Lord"!
Do not be deceived!
JLB
Granted that's an assumption on your part. I concur with what JLB said concerning 'when' the Book of Daniel shows the abomination that maketh desolate is for, i.e., for the very end. Afterall, the 7 signs Christ was giving in His Olivet Discourse are for the end of this world, not back in 70 A.D.
But does God at times show us PATTERNS for a prophecy that's still yet future??? Yes! Or didn't you understand why the following appears in Isaiah 21 about 'historical' Babylon, and then once again in Revelation 14 & 18 about the 'endtime' Babylon?...
Isa 21:9
9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."
(KJV)
Rev 18:2
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."
(KJV)
Or didn't you recognize a similarity with these two examples?...
Rev 12:3
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
(KJV)
Rev 13:1
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
(KJV)
When Solomon said this...
Eccl 1:9
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
(KJV)
... he meant it exactly as it's written there. If this is new to you, then you've come to another level of understanding in God's Word, for understanding this idea of Biblical patterns is very important; they contain a lot of information on HOW to rightly divide future prophecies.
Christ quoted specifically the abomination that maketh desolate event from the Book of Daniel, and He also gave a bit of information along with it revealing what it is when He said, "stand in the holy place", and "standing where it ought not" (Matt.24:15; Mark 13:14). That "holy place" per the NT means in a temple in Jerusalem, specifically one like His disciples were pointing to while they were upon the Mount of Olives overlooking the Temple Mount and temple complex buildings. And that's what those passages in the Book of Daniel are about, an idol, inside a temple in Jerusalem, setup causing transgression of idol worship.
Look at Isaiah 61:1-2, and try to tell me all of it has already been fulfilled today. When our Lord Jesus quoted from Isaiah 61 while reading from Isaiah in the temple per Luke 4, He stopped reading before finishing the last 2 phrases of Isa.61:2. He instead closed the Book, and showed only what He had read was then fulfilled for His first coming. Those last 2 phrases are still expecting today, for they're about His future second coming.
That's one of the ways we can know what has been fulfilled, and what has not, even WITHIN a prophecy given through God's Old Testament prophets.
Patterns serve as a type of fulfillment while missing important parameters of the prophecy. There's always some parameter an historical pattern will miss fulfilling. The Romans did not setup an 'abomination of desolation'. The temple burned down before that could happen. Nor did the Romans fit the prophecy of a false messiah, which is important because the Daniel Scripture told us the false one will exalt himself above God in the sense of worship (Dan.11:36-37; Dan.8:11).
Another important parameter is the idea of 'peace'. The false one of Daniel is to come to power by flatteries and using peace. Antiochus didn't do that for he conquered using an army, also as did the Roman armies in 70 A.D. Daniel 11:21 shows the final Antichrist will come to power peacefully using flatteries. In Matthew 24:6, our Lord Jesus foretold us that when we hear of wars and rumours of wars, don't be troubled for that must be, BUT... "the end is not yet." The opposite idea of that is a time of 'peace', meaning a time of no more 'wars and rumours of wars'. What false one in the history of coming to power in Jerusalem has ever... fit that parameter? None yet.
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