Everyone Goes to Heaven

[Wrangler]

What is this to do with the Nashatan again?

He’s just a slanderer, presenting Biblical principles in a negative light.

 

[bbyrd009]

What is this to do with the Nashatan again?

hmm
i would say that the lesson of Nehushtan is a diff one, more about our proclivity for symptom treatment/alleviation, than treating the cause? A way to avoid responsibility? A way to do something that one wants to do that is not “good” in some way, by some justification later…what were the Wanderers doing there again, right before that? Before the snake incident. Refusing to see something, being in denial of something, i forget what at the moment
Anyway, that they, their kids? were burning incense to it later seems to me to want to show that the lesson wasnt learned, or is hard to keep in mind, easy to fall back into

That our focus should be on the resurrection rather than crusifiction?

might be a good way to put it.
youre surely fam with the “Jesus did it all, i dont have to do anything” deal
so iow the crucifixion isnt even done
these are things we do, more than things to believe
imo

I find this troublesome, because you can't have the former without the latter. Nether will the Kingdom accommodate sinful man. So change is needed in the man since God does not change.

Well, this might seem like a diff subject, or not be understood right now, but No son of man may die for another’s sins; the life that sins dies is a difficult concept to corroborate with our current dogma i guess
isnt going anywhere though
iow we are initially presented with a Perfect Sacrifice to Believe, but idt we're supposed to stay there

to your point i kind of agree, but it seems for a diff reason than we imagine? Yah went looking for Adam and Eve after they had eaten the fruit, right. So iow "sin" might be accommodated more than we think! Forgiveness covers sins, i think

And that change is facilitated by the baptism into Christ's death.

which is a ceremony now
followed by a celebration lol
about as far from a "death" as one could get iow

Both are necessary, repentance is milk. Sanctification meat.

in the way of leading in to meat being beneficial, i guess, ya
but it peaks and then Id rather never eat meat again comes in
ha

 

[bbyrd009]

He’s just a slanderer, presenting Biblical principles in a negative light.

i can see why you might say that, but everyone starts under some tree or other imo, one is as good as another. Jesus gave some of the highest praise to the Centurion (cult of sol)

but the centurion also basically stated the failing of his creed (which readily compares with mainstream Christian dogma…there’s a decent treatment of that…somewhere)
lol

 

[Wrangler]

everyone starts under some tree or other imo, one is as good as another.

False equality. Right and true is not as good as wrong and false; that tree is better.

AndI admit that there are many true trees. Continuing with your metaphor, most trees with truth need to be pruned for the wrong and false even they contain.

 

[bbyrd009]

False equality. Right and true is not as good as wrong and false; that tree is better.

AndI admit that there are many true trees. Continuing with your metaphor, most trees with truth need to be pruned for the wrong and false even they contain.

well, wasnt my metaphor, and i guess they are all wood
we start with some beliefs, that end up being "beliefs about the future" right...
fwiw all that "using wood for a fire, and then carving out an idol to worship for yourself" is imo directly applicable to how we are introduced to Christianity

 

[bbyrd009]

Does your religion encourage beliefs about primarily some imaginary future, that you might obtain after death?
then imo you are in trouble, and not even trying very hard

 

[lforrest]

might be a good way to put it.
youre surely fam with the “Jesus did it all, i dont have to do anything” deal
so iow the crucifixion isnt even done
these are things we do, more than things to believe
imo

The crusifiction of Jesus Christ was completed from the foundation of the world. We can therefore live with confidence in resurrection life.

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
So if someone still sins they are divided against themselves. They are like schrodinger's cat, living and dead, at this strange period of time when some things are being resolved to an end that is already determined.

No son of man may die for another’s sins; the life that sins dies is a difficult concept to corroborate with our current dogma i guess
isnt going anywhere though

to your point i kind of agree, but it seems for a diff reason than we imagine? Yah went looking for Adam and Eve after they had eaten the fruit, right. So iow "sin" might be accommodated more than we think! Forgiveness covers sins, i think

How about some direct quotes of Deut 24:16 Deuteronomy 24:16 - Additional Laws
It establishes that there is to be no guilt by association.

Why was Israel forbidden to take plunder from Jericho but later they were not forbidden to plunder AI?

 

[Harold]

John 6:33 "The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD."

God’s bread fills everyone, saving everyone. Have faith in Christ and be saved. All will become believers in Him. He gives life to the whole world! That means everybody.

 

[bbyrd009]

How about some direct quotes of Deut 24:16 Deuteronomy 24:16 - Additional Laws
It establishes that there is to be no guilt by association

well, during the giving of the law anyway, ya

Why was Israel forbidden to take plunder from Jericho but later they were not forbidden to plunder AI?

ya, esp after the guy that started taking Ai plunder got spanked? dunno

 

[lforrest]

well, during the giving of the law anyway, ya

ya, esp after the guy that started taking Ai plunder got spanked? dunno

He and his children were killed. It's an example of Guilt by association.

Israel went too far in punishing Achan's children as well. Their deaths paid forward a debt that entitled them to the plunder.

 

[Wrangler]

we start with some beliefs, that end up being "beliefs about the future" right...
fwiw all that "using wood for a fire, and then carving out an idol to worship for yourself" is imo directly applicable to how we are introduced to Christianity

The importance of faith is less about the future than the present.

Not sure where you are going with the fire wood and idol carvings being an introduction to Christianity.

Does your religion encourage beliefs about primarily some imaginary future, that you might obtain after death?
then imo you are in trouble, and not even trying very hard

No. Christianity is primarily about now, the ever present. When Jesus said to seek, knock and ask, he meant now. The kingdom of heaven is at hand now.

 

[amigo de christo]

John 6:33 "The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD."

God’s bread fills everyone, saving everyone. Have faith in Christ and be saved. All will become believers in Him. He gives life to the whole world! That means everybody.

Dont forget that same JESUS said Ye must BELIEVE . Stop preaching a false gospel that saves none. You will
be held accountable to the very JESUS you thought you followed yet DENIED . You wont like what HE is gonna say
on HIS day either .

 

[amigo de christo]

He who eats of that bread . Lets remember that . You gotta BELIEVE .

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure where you are going with the fire wood and idol carvings being an introduction to Christianity

well, you would just have to play with the elements a little,

14He cuts down cedars
or retrieves a cypressc or oak.
He lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest.
He plants a laurel, and the rain makes it grow.
15It serves as fuel for man.
He takes some of it to warm himself,
and he kindles a fire
and bakes his bread;
he even fashions it into a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.
16He burns half of it in the fire,
and he roasts meat on that half.
He eats the roast and is satisfied.
Indeed, he warms himself and says,
“Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
17From the rest he makes a god, his graven image.
He bows down to it and worships;
he prays to it and says,
“Save me, for you are my god.”
so, he “cuts down” cedars but “retrieves” cypress and oak, and what does each tree rep, laurel (pretty obv), bread is in there, meat, etc
plus the metre, also the wordplay in Hebrew
and not an intro to just Christianity, surely?
more like a template for “conversion” or something;
“this is how most converts go, in their search for God”
accurate for me, anyway

Christianity is primarily about now, the ever present

maybe in your definition, yes
but im not sure that that is the…most objective definition

 

[Harold]

Matt. 5:44-45 Jesus commanded us to be like Himself and His Father: "Love your enemies, bless those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

God commands us to help save everyone by bringing all people to Jesus so they can have faith in Him. All who hate Christ will eventually learn to love Christ, to believe in Christ with faith alone and be saved.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Devil himself goes to Heaven, because he knows Jesus is real and not to mention, lost him to his craft ?

But what is the Devil himself ? just a Titch ! who leads people astray !
Does the Devil himself do the workings ? No ! It's you that do the workings ? But why ? Well because if one is not truly Saved in Christ Jesus, then one does not know what you are steeping into ? why because one is lost ! and that's why people willingly do the wrong thing by others. because they are not matured in Christ Jesus in fact.

One needs to learn how to Brush the Titch aside ! such truly is only a little small minded thing ? but Christ Jesus is a big thing for the mature mind.

But the Lost regardless can not enter into the Kingdom of God in fact ! for they are not worthy in fact ! for they are a curse regarding God ! They do not have the blessing in fact.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Devil himself goes to Heaven, because he knows Jesus is real and not to mention, lost him to his craft ?

But what is the Devil himself ? just a Titch ! who leads people astray !
Does the Devil himself do the workings ? No ! It's you that do the workings ? But why ? Well because if one is not truly Saved in Christ Jesus, then one does not know what you are steeping into ? why because one is lost ! and that's why people willingly do the wrong thing by others. because they are not matured in Christ Jesus in fact.

One needs to learn how to Brush the Titch aside ! such truly is only a little small minded thing ? but Christ Jesus is a big thing for the mature mind.

But the Lost regardless can not enter into the Kingdom of God in fact ! for they are not worthy in fact ! for they are a curse regarding God ! They do not have the blessing in fact.

If you say "in fact" one more time... - LOL (bold emphasis in quote mine)

Sorry, Mate. Such a good set-up. I love Aussie.

 

[amigo de christo]

LOVE dont tell folks they shall be saved if they deny Christ . Lets follow JESUS who said
that GOD so LOVED the world that HE sent His only begotten Son that all who DO BELIEVE WOULD BE SAVED
and those who dont , said HE , will be damned . LOVE the people harold , thus DONT LIE TO THEM .

 

[St. SteVen]

LOVE dont tell folks they shall be saved if they deny Christ

We all deny Christ every day. Are you living to your full potential in Christ?

Lets follow JESUS who said
that GOD so LOVED the world that HE sent His only begotten Son that all who DO BELIEVE WOULD BE SAVED

Right. If you really LOVE the WHOLE world, you don't incierate the vast majority of humankind.

and those who dont , said HE , will be damned

Really? Did he actually say that? Or bad translation?

LOVE the people harold , thus DONT LIE TO THEM .

Universal Redemption is one of three BIBLICAL doctrines of the final judgment. Not a lie.

 

[Harold]

John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (drag in the Greek, helkuo) ALL MANKIND unto Myself."

God saves the whole Earth. Jesus is dragging all of mankind to himself, He’s convincing everyone to believe in Him! And who’s stronger, man’s will or Christ’s will? God’s will cannot be stopped. Everybody will be saved because it is His good desire Believe in Jesus and be saved permanently, all thus will be.