Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Wrangler]

Christ did not literally descend from heaven! - copyright @face2face

Denial to the power of 10.

Huh? Did not God’s Spirit come to Mary and make her with child, God’s Chosen One? What am I literally missing?

 

[face2face]

I would suggest that the mediatorial ministry of reconciliation began the moment man needed it. In the garden.

Indeed, Genesis 3:15 promises Christ's coming:

"I (God) will put enmity (hatred) between you (the Serpent) and the woman, and between your offspring (Cain, etc.) and her offspring (Christ's bride); He (Christ) shall bruise your (Serpent's) head, and you (Serpent) shall bruise His heel (Christ)."

This verse highlights the two lines of humanity:

The Seed of the Woman versus the Seed of the Serpent.

The wound (temporary) to Christ’s heel symbolizes His time in the tomb, complete death for three days. Meanwhile, the blow to the Serpent’s head represents a fatal strike, as God, through Christ’s victory over sin's flesh was final and decisive.

You can see it's unavoidable for Christ to have been the "Seed of the Woman!" and suffer accordingly.

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

I was looking at Isaiah 6:6 yesterday and @ProDeo missed this entirely due to what he thought was important at the time, we are all guilty of this!

6 Then one of the seraphim (angelic being) flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”

Who would have thought an angel could forgive sins?

Because this goes against trinitarian’s reaching for what is unique about God’s Chosen One, they invent out of whole cloth a scheme where A is not A, an Angel is really not an Angel. God’s word just sought to confuse us; The forgiving being is ‘pre-carnate’ Chosen One on Earth. Just speculate support for manmade doctrine.

Good enough?!

 

[face2face]

Because this goes against trinitarian’s reaching for what is unique about God’s Chosen One, they invent out of whole cloth a scheme where A is not A, an Angel is really not an Angel. God’s word just sought to confuse us; The forgiving being is ‘pre-carnate’ Chosen One on Earth. Just speculate support for manmade doctrine.

Good enough?!

The clarity of that passage is irrefutable, and its meaning goes far deeper than I have expressed. The take-away again is that those who "know God and the Lord Jesus Christ" take part in the "us"

 

[Brakelite]

If Jesus says - I and the Father are one I believe it literally, Him claiming divine and I don't pick up stones.

I and the Father... already Jesus is delineating 2 individuals...are one in matters except in that which Jesus has already affirmed.

It was Philip who said to Jesus:
“Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us”.
Jesus could have replied saying:
“Sorry, I cannot do that Philip. No one can see the Father and live”.
Instead He replied:
“… Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” John 14:9-10
In these words of Jesus there can be sensed an element of surprise. The disciples had confessed Him to be the Son of God (Matthew 14:33, 16:16, John 1:49). They also knew He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-17, John 5:18, John 9:35). They knew too that this was what the Scribes and Pharisees held against Him (John 5:18). They would even have known that this had been the testimony of God Himself (Matthew 3:17, 17:5). They still though, so it seems, had failed to recognise His true identity. It was just as though Jesus was saying to them, “Are you saying that even though I have been with you for over 3 years you still don’t know who I really am?” Christ then said:
“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.” John 14:11
Christ’s words are again the reiteration of the great truth that He spoke to the Jews when He said
“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30

God has never explained the oneness of existence between Himself and His Son. It is a mystery known only to divinity. This is why we must never attempt to explain it. Even if God did provide an explanation, it would probably be beyond our comprehension to understand it. Can the finite comprehend the infinite? The Jews certainly realised though what Jesus was claiming. John recorded (this was after Jesus had said that He and His Father were one). Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them,
"Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"
The Jews answered him, saying, "
For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” John 10:31-33
There can be no mistaking as to what the Jews understood Jesus to be saying. It was that He was God (theos). To many of the Jews, particularly the Scribes and the Pharisees, this was “blasphemy”. If Christ had not been God then they would have been correct. The same reaction came when Jesus healed the impotent man on the Sabbath. John recorded (another of the signs to show that Christ was the Son of God) And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

We need to remember that John wrote his Gospel with the intent of proving Christ to be the Son of God (John 20:31) – which terminology means that Christ is God (John 1:1). We can see therefore why the Holy Spirit led this Gospel writer to select these discussions that Jesus had with the Jews. They tell us so much. They tell us how the Jews understood Christ’s words. Jesus though had not made Himself God. His existence as a separate person from God was by the pleasure of the Father (Colossians 1:19). The Jews called God their Father. They must have realised therefore that Jesus was not claiming this in the same sense as they were claiming it else they would not have condemned Him for it. They must have understood Him to be claiming God as His Father in a very literal sense. This is why they said He was making Himself equal with God. Jesus did not say they had misunderstood His words. In personality He was not the one true God (the Father) but He was manifesting God in the flesh. It is no wonder therefore that God led the prophet Isaiah to prophecy of the coming Messiah
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6

That Jesus is absolutely the literal begotten Son of God, is the real flaw in Trinitarian creedal dogma. The Trinity by its very co- eternal, co-equal, consubstantial definition, effectually denies Sonship, which is why so many find it necessary to turn it into a metaphor.

How are the Father and Jesus one? We don't know precisely, but what we do know is that they are one in purpose, and in character. Thus Jesus can say to Thomas, "if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father".

 

[David in NJ]

We are saved by God, his Spirit, and also by possessing the spirit of his Son, David. Well that is how I know I'm saved.

So you are saved in a non-Biblical prescribed manner then, and have not the Father in the equation of your salvation?

Who said that belief or not, in the Trinity model of god is not a salvation issue. It surely is....

Dear @APAK,
The Love of God asks you to please review carefully - Thank You

Watchtower NWT Bible = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

No one can be saved by the god of Watchtower.

"a god" cannot save you or anyone = Isaiah 45:5

I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.

There is only ONE Way to Salvation = the Word was God and the Word became flesh = Immanuel, God with us

Lord Jesus Christ = "IAM the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru ME"

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

the Lord Jesus Christ
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” - Acts 4:12

Dear @APAK, the FATHER will only accept you if you come to the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[face2face]

I and the Father... already Jesus is delineating 2 individuals...are one in matters except in that which Jesus has already affirmed.

It was Philip who said to Jesus:
“Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us”.
Jesus could have replied saying:
“Sorry, I cannot do that Philip. No one can see the Father and live”.
Instead He replied:
“… Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” John 14:9-10
In these words of Jesus there can be sensed an element of surprise. The disciples had confessed Him to be the Son of God (Matthew 14:33, 16:16, John 1:49). They also knew He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-17, John 5:18, John 9:35). They knew too that this was what the Scribes and Pharisees held against Him (John 5:18). They would even have known that this had been the testimony of God Himself (Matthew 3:17, 17:5). They still though, so it seems, had failed to recognise His true identity. It was just as though Jesus was saying to them, “Are you saying that even though I have been with you for over 3 years you still don’t know who I really am?” Christ then said:
“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.” John 14:11
Christ’s words are again the reiteration of the great truth that He spoke to the Jews when He said
“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30

God has never explained the oneness of existence between Himself and His Son. It is a mystery known only to divinity. This is why we must never attempt to explain it. Even if God did provide an explanation, it would probably be beyond our comprehension to understand it. Can the finite comprehend the infinite? The Jews certainly realised though what Jesus was claiming. John recorded (this was after Jesus had said that He and His Father were one). Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them,
"Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"
The Jews answered him, saying, "
For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” John 10:31-33
There can be no mistaking as to what the Jews understood Jesus to be saying. It was that He was God (theos). To many of the Jews, particularly the Scribes and the Pharisees, this was “blasphemy”. If Christ had not been God then they would have been correct. The same reaction came when Jesus healed the impotent man on the Sabbath. John recorded (another of the signs to show that Christ was the Son of God) And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

We need to remember that John wrote his Gospel with the intent of proving Christ to be the Son of God (John 20:31) – which terminology means that Christ is God (John 1:1). We can see therefore why the Holy Spirit led this Gospel writer to select these discussions that Jesus had with the Jews. They tell us so much. They tell us how the Jews understood Christ’s words. Jesus though had not made Himself God. His existence as a separate person from God was by the pleasure of the Father (Colossians 1:19). The Jews called God their Father. They must have realised therefore that Jesus was not claiming this in the same sense as they were claiming it else they would not have condemned Him for it. They must have understood Him to be claiming God as His Father in a very literal sense. This is why they said He was making Himself equal with God. Jesus did not say they had misunderstood His words. In personality He was not the one true God (the Father) but He was manifesting God in the flesh. It is no wonder therefore that God led the prophet Isaiah to prophecy of the coming Messiah
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6

That Jesus is absolutely the literal begotten Son of God, is the real flaw in Trinitarian creedal dogma. The Trinity by its very co- eternal, co-equal, consubstantial definition, effectually denies Sonship, which is why so many find it necessary to turn it into a metaphor.

How are the Father and Jesus one? We don't know precisely, but what we do know is that they are one in purpose, and in character. Thus Jesus can say to Thomas, "if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father".

All beautifully summed up:

"Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." – 1 Timothy 3:16

Some understand the mystery, while others do not!

• God did not become flesh, but manifested through it, by a willing Son.
• Christ was made right (justified!) by the Spirit, learning obedience.
• Seen by angels (this makes sense, since he did not pre-exist).
• Preached among the nations, and this mission continues today.
• Believed upon and taken up in glory, something he had never experienced before.

When he returns, Brakelite, watch out for the Captain of Yahweh’s Army!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Continuing from 1 Timothy 3:16, where it speaks of Jesus being "vindicated by the Spirit," we can turn to the interpretation found in Hebrews:

Hebrews 2:10 – "For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering."

The truth that Jesus was the forerunner in our salvation is indeed profound and undeniable. His suffering and obedience were necessary steps in fulfilling his mission and making salvation possible for all (including himself) who believe. Through his experiences, he was perfected, completing the work of redemption and securing eternal salvation for humanity of which he represented completely.

F2F

 

[face2face]

He was a real human being, not a preexistent angel, nor God Himself, but a Son of Man raised up to provide His God a triumphant victory over sin's flesh!

F2F

 

[face2face]

We should be rejoicing in the Victory instead we are arguing over Council Creeds which in the grand scheme will fall away never to be remembered when Christ returns.

The musing of men meaning nothing to the Father, only those Whom He has spoken through and those who listen are His concern.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Did you read my post RJ. There is/was divinity in him, the Christ, whilst he was on earth for sure, although inside of him, not of him, his spirit, only of God's Spirit itself. Agreed!?

This divinity, does not make HIM then also divine. like a bleed over as in a dye that runs into another fabric. Think on that for quite awhile...and If we extend this to a genuine believer's life, possessing the spirit of Christ and thus the spirit of the Father God, then you or I then are also divine - not happening. It's a fools logic of the Truiners, and certainly blasphemous indeed to the Body of Christ!

You are posting your own opinion and belief here my friend.

We are partakers Of the divine nature, as a Born Again, ?

We are not our own, we were bought for a price, we belong to the Spirit Of God, I know in my spirit that I’m in the world, but, I am not of the world.i am Gods Spirit child, ....


@APAK says here, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

and If we extend this to a genuine believer's life, possessing the spirit of Christ and thus the spirit of the Father God, then you or I then are also divine -




RJ. says, The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God, he does this all day every day, witnessing Gods truth to our heart/ spirit, as the Spirit permanently indwells our spirit as it’s been birthed,
Spirit gives birth to spirit....the Spirit is Alive in our spirit, ?

We are Spirit led children?....we grow up in the Holy Spirit, why, because we have been Born Again of imperishable seed, that imperishable seed that birthed our spirit is a Living seed?...the Holy Spirit...how do you know that he is Alive and Active in your heart/ spirit?

Jesus blood was pure, Holy, otherwise how could he atone for our sins?

Do you think that Jesus was an ordinary human at birth?...do you believe that he had the same fallen nature that we had, before our spirit became Born Again?..even though he grew from the seed of God?

He didn’t grow from Joseph’s seed/ sperm did he?

My belief is ,that Jesus grew in Mary’s womb as a divine being, he had to Of, because he wasn’t conceived by the sperm of a man.....he was conceived by divine intervention / conceived of the power of the Holy Spirit...therefore you tell me how that can’t make him divine?

He was divine imo right from his conception....even though he was Born like you and I were, we were born to fallen parents who inherited the sin of the world.

Jesus was Born to Mary who was a sinner, yet as he was growing in her womb as a divine being, the Spirit protected him from any sin of Mary ...God just used her womb as a means to grow his divine Son....

God had already planned the birth of Jesus before the foundation of the world, he also planned our spirit birth before the foundation of the world...all according to his purpose and plan.

God has planned everything from beginning to end...he has planned our lives from beginning to end.....

Everything that I have posted have been my thoughts, a little bit of scripture thrown in...it may be complete and utter rubbish what I’ve posted, who knows, ....I just typed exactly what was on my heart to post....it just came out.....and so the Trinity will always be a mystery...it can’t be proven either way..imo.

 

[Ritajanice]

What can it mean? It has only one meaning as the rest of Scripture demonstrates…..

That is what you believe it can mean Aunty, by the scripture that you post, ...I believe differently.

The Father and I are one, that could mean that they are one in Spirit.

John 10

King James Version

​

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
42 And many believed on him there.

John 17:20-23…Jesus said of his disciples….
”I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me.”

Jesus grew from the seed of God, that is my belief, he was Born in human flesh, yet he was divine...that imo goes without saying.
He had to be as he was grown in Mary’s womb by the power of the Spirit, not by the sperm of a sinful man...Mary was also a virgin so she had not been defiled by any man...she had to be a virgin, how could God grow his seed in a woman who was defiled by man?
He wasn’t conceived by the sperm of man, he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, therefore that makes him divine..

The Living seed that overcame Mary, was the Living Holy Spirit.....Jesus was not an ordinary human being....he was the divine Son Of God ,grown all according to God’s purpose/ plan in the womb of Mary...how I even entertained that he was human as we are before we became Born Again, with sin, baffles me....I guess I was then thinking from my human understanding at that time.....

• Romans 4:13
  For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
• Galatians 3:16
  Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed,"who is Christ.

This is a unity of thought and purpose.
People need to study God’s word, not just theology. We have to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, otherwise anyone can pluck verses out of thin air and make them say whatever they like to suggest, when taken out of context…..

Born Again are led by the Spirit Of God, he can also use us to get his message across by what we post, I have a Living faith Auntie, I know that the Spirit indwells my spirit, I also know that if he chooses to speak through me, there is nothing stopping him...I am his vessel to use as he so pleases, he used the Virgin Mary to grow his seed of Jesus in, she was also a vessel that God used.......God used many to get his message across.....Jesus was a prime example only he was the divine Son Of God, he was no ordinary human man....the Bible was written under the influence of the Holy Spirit...the Holy Spirit speaks through his children.the Born Of The Spirit Children?

How else would God get his message across to me that I was his child?

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God?

He testified/ witnessed / spoke to my spirit as he was indwelling my spirit and taking up residence...I house the Holy Spirit?.we are his temple?

Conviction is not proof of truth….when Saul of Tarsus was persecuting Christians, he was sincere in his conviction and belief that he was stamping out apostates to the Jewish faith, rounding them up for death or punishment.
He got a big ‘tap on the shoulder’ from Jesus himself…..and was humble enough to accept the discipline….he spent the rest of his life trying to make up for his mistakes. But God saw the zeal he had for the worship of his God and redirected it. He was used extensively in his ministry and wrote more scripture than any of the other apostles.
He can redirect us too….if we let him.

 

[face2face]

We are partakers Of the divine nature, as a Born Again, ?

Apak has been very patient with you, and it's a testament to his perseverance in the one hope of our calling.

You understand, right, that divine nature isn’t something we possess now but rather something that will come later? It’s something we will "put on" in an instant, a transformation that happens in the twinkling of an eye.

Reserved in Heaven to be presented at the appearing of the Lord!

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Apak has been very patient with you, and it's a testament to his perseverance in the one hope of our calling.

You understand, right, that divine nature isn’t something we possess now but rather something that will come later? It’s something we will "put on" in an instant, a transformation that happens in the twinkling of an eye.

Reserved in Heaven to be presented at the appearing of the Lord!

F2F

We are partakers Of the divine nature the moment our spirit is reborn/ Born Again?

We are also one in spirit with God?

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [a]will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, asYou, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And theglory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.





Now, when you can actually understand what it means to be Born Of The Spirit, we could then further the discussion of the trinity, so far you have no understanding of the Living spiritual rebirth, which I have asked you many times to explain.........?

 

[face2face]

We are partakers Of the divine nature the moment our spirit is reborn/ Born Again?

No sorry.

Confirming One’s Calling and Election​

3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 2 Peter 1

The nature is by promise yet to be given!

I'd love to meet you if you did have divine nature - imagine being in the presence of an immortal?

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

No sorry.

Confirming One’s Calling and Election​

3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 2 Peter 1

The nature is by promise yet to be given!

I'd love to meet you if you did have divine nature - imagine being in the presence of an immortal?

F2F

A Born Again is a partaker Of the divine Nature...they have been Born Of The Spirit?.= by Living divine heart revelation?

Still I wait for you to post your understanding of this...your understanding of scripture is not enough I’m afraid, we need heart knowledge as well as scriptural knowledge..?

What is heart/ spirit knowledge @face2face ......who leads you through scripture?..who brings scripture to our understanding?


9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2 Peter 1​

​

King James Version​

​

​

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Ritajanice]

re is by promise yet to be given!

We are Born Of The Spirit by divine heart revelation?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Flesh gives birth to flesh?

How can I discuss the validity of the trinity with you ...when you don’t understand the above?

You need to ask God for more heart revelation....I’ve had to do the same, God speaks to our heart/ spirit ...we understand God from our heart/ spirit?

We can’t just willy nilly lead ourselves through the word ,we wait on the Spirit to bring it to our understanding...do you deny this?

Do you actually understand that we have no power and are nothing without the Holy Spirit?

That’s why we must be Born Again, we then start our spiritual journey with the Holy Spirit....we learn Spirit talk/ understanding from the Holy Spirit......it takes years and years to understand the Spirit....as we were once worldly children.all that rubbish and thinking we were fed from the world has to be renewed.....it’s called the renewing of our minds?

Whose mind are we in?....being Born Again is a completely different path that we are on, it’s a spiritual path/ journey/walk..with our teacher and helper the Holy Spirit.

You seem to think that you and APAK are the teachers....wrong, the Holy Spirit is your teacher/ helper.....so please stop glorifying yourself of knowledge....we have none....all of our knowledge comes from the Spirit....not “ SELF” what knowledge is in “ Self”?

We are adopted spirit children.

​

◄ Ephesians 1 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[Ritajanice]

Apak has been very patient with you, and it's a testament to his perseverance in the one hope of our calling.

So, APAK and yourself are the only ones according to you, who are in communication with the Holy Spirit, the rest of us haven’t a clue who God is, ?....or what we are talking about, it’s just voices in my head, lol.

You have been specially anointed to speak Gods truth have you?

 

[face2face]

We are Born Of The Spirit by divine heart revelation?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Flesh gives birth to flesh?

How can I discuss the validity of the trinity with you ...when you don’t understand the above?

You need to ask God for more heart revelation....I’ve had to do the same, God speaks to our heart/ spirit ...we understand God from our heart/ spirit?

We can’t just willy nilly lead ourselves through the word ,we wait on the Spirit to bring it to our understanding...do you deny this?

Do you actually understand that we have no power and are nothing without the Holy Spirit?

That’s why we must be Born Again, we then start our spiritual journey with the Holy Spirit....we learn Spirit talk/ understanding from the Holy Spirit......it takes years and years to understand the Spirit....as we were once worldly children.all that rubbish and thinking we were fed from the world has to be renewed.....it’s called the renewing of our minds?

Whose mind are we in?....being Born Again is a completely different path that we are on, it’s a spiritual path/ journey/walk..with our teacher and helper the Holy Spirit.

You seem to think that you and APAK are the teachers....wrong, the Holy Spirit is your teacher/ helper.....so please stop glorifying yourself of knowledge....we have none....all of our knowledge comes from the Spirit....not “ SELF” what knowledge is in “ Self”?

We are adopted spirit children.

​

◄ Ephesians 1 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Not divine yet Rita - a number of things need to happen before the change.

 

[Ritajanice]

Not divine yet Rita - a number of things need to happen before the change.

We are Born Of The Spirit, partaker Of the divine nature.....

The Holy Spirit indwells our spirit, making us “ partaker “ Of the divine nature....we have a new heart and spirit within.......

If we aren’t partaker Of the divine nature, then we can’t be conformed into the image of Jesus.


We are the Born Again, therefore are partaker Of the divine nature, as we are being conformed by the power of the Living Spirit, into the image of Jesus......Born Again of imperishable seed....the Living Holy Spirit ..