False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Davy]

Sorry but the rapture will not be secret but very public. The church on earth will vanish! And it will happen before the 70th week of Daniel begins (the tribulation)

The man of sin (commonly called the Antichrist) cannot be any pope, unless the pope becomes a world political figure again. But if things stay as they are, the best a pope can rise to is the false prophet.

There is no Scripture evidence that proves a rapture will occur prior... to the "great tribulation".

God's Word as written testifies of Christ's coming to gather His elect after the tribulation, and Jesus was explicit (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

What Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught about the day of His coming and gathering of His saints in His Olivet discourse. In the Matthew 24:31 version, the gathering is about the 'asleep' saints from Heaven. In the Mark 13:27 version, the gathering is about the saints still alive on earth being gathered.

 

[Timtofly]

The FP is the AC, just two names for the same person.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,"

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are."

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet."

If the FP is the AC, who is the beast? We have Satan and the FP. Who is the beast? Are you saying the beast is not even human, but the only human is the FP, who you say is the AC as well as the FP?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The FP is the AC, just two names for the same person.

No the False Prophet is a different person than the antichrist. The Antichrist is the beast of rev. 13:1-8, the culmination of the fourth beast of Daniel.

Teh False prophet is the beast of REv. 13:11-17. Two separate people with 2 separate roles. The dragon acts as the counterfeit father. Satans son, the antichrist acts as the counterfeit Christ and the false prophet acts as the counterfeit Spirit= counterfeit trinity.

 

[ewq1938]

No the False Prophet is a different person than the antichrist. The Antichrist is the beast of rev. 13:1-8, the culmination of the fourth beast of Daniel.

The ten horned beast in both Rev and Daniel are kingdoms, not an individual. Only the second beast, the FP, can be the AC. He is the supreme leader of the ten horned kingdom, ruling the world. No biblical writer ever described the AC and some other second in command person. Both the FP and Paul's man of sin perform miracles to deceive.

Teh False prophet is the beast of REv. 13:11-17. Two separate people with 2 separate roles.

A global kingdom composed of ten smaller kingdoms on 7 areas of land is not a person. The ten horned beast isn't a person in Daniel, why would it be a person suddenly in Rev 13?

 

[07-07-07]

No the False Prophet is a different person than the antichrist. The Antichrist is the beast of rev. 13:1-8, the culmination of the fourth beast of Daniel.

Teh False prophet is the beast of REv. 13:11-17. Two separate people with 2 separate roles. The dragon acts as the counterfeit father. Satans son, the antichrist acts as the counterfeit Christ and the false prophet acts as the counterfeit Spirit= counterfeit trinity.

Yes, satan counterfeits God's works.

Authentic​	Counterfeit​
Father​	Satan​
Son​	Antichrist​
Holy Ghost​	False Prophet​

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, satan counterfeits God's works.

Authentic​	Counterfeit​
Father​	Satan​
Son​	Antichrist​
Holy Ghost​	False Prophet​

The FP is not an imitation of the Holy Spirit and the Ac (who is the FP) isn't a son in Rev. The only comparable thing is that there are three of them. There is no hint of a Father, Son of Spirit in those three though.

 

[Davy]

No the False Prophet is a different person than the antichrist. The Antichrist is the beast of rev. 13:1-8, the culmination of the fourth beast of Daniel.

Teh False prophet is the beast of REv. 13:11-17. Two separate people with 2 separate roles. The dragon acts as the counterfeit father. Satans son, the antichrist acts as the counterfeit Christ and the false prophet acts as the counterfeit Spirit= counterfeit trinity.

The false prophet is the SAME ... as the coming Antichrist. BOTH are just ROLES that Satan plays for the end here on earth.

And it's easy... to know this, simply because NO flesh-born man is judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" until 1,000 years AFTER... Jesus has returned.

Rev.19:20 shows at the timing of Christ's return to end this present world, the beast and false prophet are cast into the "lake of fire". That's prior... to God's Great White Throne Judgment, so how's that? It can mean only one thing, the beast and false prophet are simply ROLES in a stage play which Satan will play when he gets here at the end of this world.

This is also why the "dragon", i.e., Satan, is not cast into that "lake of fire" along with the beast and false prophet at that time. It's also why Rev.16:13 mentions both the 'beast' and 'false prophet' being behind the 'miracles' along with the "dragon". It's because the "dragon" (Satan) is that "another beast" of Rev.13:11, and is that "false prophet" who works those miracles of Rev.13 to deceive the whole world.

So you folks need to think again, because GOD does NOT judge and sentence any flesh-born to the "lake of fire" until the day of His Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Rev.20!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The ten horned beast in both Rev and Daniel are kingdoms, not an individual. Only the second beast, the FP, can be the AC. He is the supreme leader of the ten horned kingdom, ruling the world. No biblical writer ever described the AC and some other second in command person. Both the FP and Paul's man of sin perform miracles to deceive.




A global kingdom composed of ten smaller kingdoms on 7 areas of land is not a person. The ten horned beast isn't a person in Daniel, why would it be a person suddenly in Rev 13?

DANIEL 7:
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Well I agree that no biblical writer described the false prophet as second in command. they describe him as a religious leader that orders the world to worship the antichrist and wear his mark!

As for REvelation,

Revelation 13

King James Version

​

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Greek has a third person impersonal pronoun so according to the greek the antichrist is a he who is the first beast wqhom the dragon gives his power and authority to.

The dragon offered this once to another person who refused it!

Matthew 4:8-10

King James Version

​

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:6-8

King James Version

​

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Gods son refuses it, but satans son will receive it and worship the dragon.

 

[ewq1938]

DANIEL 7:
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Well I agree that no biblical writer described the false prophet as second in command.

No writer described two men as in one as the AC and one as the FP. They all write of one man.

they describe him as a religious leader that orders the world to worship the antichrist and wear his mark!

The AC (the beast with two little horns of a lambkin) orders the world to worship his global empire (the ten horned beast) which is to worship himself and the mark is the FP's mark, as it adds up to his name.

The ten horned beast is a kingdom/empire in Daniel and it is a kingdom/empire in Rev 13. A ten horned kingdom does not magically turn into a man in Revelation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No writer described two men as in one as the AC and one as the FP. They all write of one man.

I can show you dozens who have written of the AC and the FP as 2 separate men. I never have seen one who wrote of them as the same person. Can you cite one of these writers?

But the bible speaks of them as two .

Rev. 13:

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

We know this is definitely Satana and the antichrist.


11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

This is the false prophet.

He only does miracles in the3 sight of the first beast which had had the wound and did live. @ beasts representing 2 people spoken of here.

Revelation 20:10

King James Version

​

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

2 people are spoken here-- the antichrist and the false prophet--The bible says they are 2 people. Along with Satan they make up the counterfeit trinity.

 

[ewq1938]

I can show you dozens who have written of the AC and the FP as 2 separate men.

No biblical writer did, that's the issue.

I never have seen one who wrote of them as the same person. Can you cite one of these writers?

John and Paul and Daniel both spoke of a singular person, alone with no other person with them. Man of sin, little horn, false prophet, that Wicked, beast.

But the bible speaks of them as two .

Two beasts. One is a kingdom and one is a ruler of that kingdom EXACTTLY as it is in Daniel with the ten horned beast and the little horn ruler. Never are two people mentioned as the two beasts.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus' final Word to His people was Matthew 28:19-20
I suggest that you get on with doing that instead of pushing a belief that Jesus specifically spoke against.

Pray the Lord's Prayer; asking for the Kingdom to come, NOT to be taken away from the earth, where the Kingdom is coming to.
Jesus prayed to God that He NOT take His people from the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one. John 17:15

Your confident assertions and superior attitude, will cause you eternal regret, as a rapture to heaven simply cannot happen.

Gods people removed over and over as i have laid out.
You are denying it.
You can not void out verses with cherry picked verses.
You would need to show God never removes anyone prior to judgement.
You cant do it honestly.
Jesus used history to specifically debunk your assumption of no removal.

 

[Keraz]

You can not void out verses with cherry picked verses.

How is John 17:15 - cherrypicked?
It plainly states Jesus' prayer to God. Will God deny His Son and take His Christian followers out of this world?

The 'rapture to heaven' of the church is never stated in the Bible. It is a Satanic lie, that has fooled millions and it seems that those who have chosen the believe this lie, will be unprepared for what actually will happen,

 

[rebuilder 454]

How is John 17:15 - cherrypicked?
It plainly states Jesus' prayer to God. Will God deny His Son and take His Christian followers out of this world?

The 'rapture to heaven' of the church is never stated in the Bible. It is a Satanic lie, that has fooled millions and it seems that those who have chosen the believe this lie, will be unprepared for what actually will happen,

Thank you Jesus for your word
1thes 4 and rev 14 both have raptures, caught up to the sky, removal, or gathering, or whatever word game you are currently playing.
The 2 witnesses
Enoch
Elijah
All caught up as was the resurrected savior in acts.
Thank you Jesus for your word.
The spirit of God testifies against your lies from hell .
You will be caught unaware and will face the ac EXACTLY as depicted in mat 25.
Stop acting like there is no such thing. A babe in Christ with a bible knows not to fall for your lies.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no Scripture evidence that proves a rapture will occur prior... to the "great tribulation".

God's Word as written testifies of Christ's coming to gather His elect after the tribulation, and Jesus was explicit (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

What Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 aligns perfectly with what Jesus taught about the day of His coming and gathering of His saints in His Olivet discourse. In the Matthew 24:31 version, the gathering is about the 'asleep' saints from Heaven. In the Mark 13:27 version, the gathering is about the saints still alive on earth being gathered.

Lol
Lot and Noah.
Jesus used both as prejudgement dynamics.
Thank you Jesus for your awesome word

 

[rebuilder 454]

How is John 17:15 - cherrypicked?
It plainly states Jesus' prayer to God. Will God deny His Son and take His Christian followers out of this world?

The 'rapture to heaven' of the church is never stated in the Bible. It is a Satanic lie, that has fooled millions and it seems that those who have chosen the believe this lie, will be unprepared for what actually will happen,

BTW, Both and Paul went up to heaven alive as apostles.

Your attempts at voiding verses is bizarre.
Your human reasoning leads to error.
Use your human reasoning on the following;
Jesus told the disciiples " not one hair on your head will be harmed."
All but John died violent deaths murdered by the devil.
You can not use reason to unpack that verse.
The spirit of God is the source of understanding that.
Let me know when you test fit all the wrong answers and give up using human reasoning.

 

[ewq1938]

How is John 17:15 - cherrypicked?
It plainly states Jesus' prayer to God. Will God deny His Son and take His Christian followers out of this world?

The 'rapture to heaven' of the church is never stated in the Bible. It is a Satanic lie, that has fooled millions and it seems that those who have chosen the believe this lie, will be unprepared for what actually will happen,

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Keraz]

Scripture is easier to understand in a modern translation:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 Now, about the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ, when He is to gather the elect to Himself, do not be alarmed by anyone who says He is here already. Let no one deceive you: that Day cannot come before the final rebellion against God, when wickedness will be revealed in human form, the man doomed to destruction. He is the adversary who aspires to be worshipped in God's place and he even enthrones himself in the temple, claiming to be God. Daniel 8:10

Already the secret forces of wickedness are at work, but the restraining power of the Holy Spirit will ensure that he will be revealed only at the appointed time. Then, the Lord Jesus will destroy him by His Spirit and His radiant power.

Now - that is: several years after the previous events of judgement and deliverance: 2 Thess 1:6-10, Jesus will Return, in glory, visible to all. He destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem and chains up Satan, then commences His Millennial reign. Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-6 At this time He gathers 'the elect' to Himself, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:15-17, they are the people who have kept pure and faithful to Him, during the Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of this wicked person is the work of Satan, it will be accompanied by all the powerful signs and miracles that falsehood can devise and every sort of evil that deceives those who do not open their minds to the truth. They are doomed to perish, because they refuse to listen to the Gospel of the truth, so God has put them under a compelling delusion; which makes them believe what is false. So all will be judged and condemned who have rejected the truth, but have made sinfulness their choice.
Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

In Paul's 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, he prophesies about two separate appearances of Jesus. First, His coming in 'blazing fire', when He will reveal Himself only to His righteous people. He destroys the nations and entities who 'conspire to attack Israel', in fulfilment of Psalm 83, Revelation 6:12-17 and many other prophecies.
His righteous Christian people go to live in the holy Land. Then, at least 7 years after that devastating and shocking event, the Anti-Christ will come to power and 'enthrone himself in the Temple', this commences the Great Tribulation and 1260 days later, Jesus Returns to live once again on earth and reign as King over the world.

 

[Keraz]

You will be caught unaware and will face the ac EXACTLY as depicted in mat 25.

Now you have resorted to judging and punishing me. James 4:11-12

You are a sad case; trapped in your delusions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No biblical writer did, that's the issue.

But they did and it is written in easy to understand language as I showed you right from Scripture!

John and Paul and Daniel both spoke of a singular person, alone with no other person with them. Man of sin, little horn, false prophet, that Wicked, beast.

Only JOhn spoke of the False prophet in Revelation. He is the second beast mentioned in Rev. 13

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

We know the first beast out of the sea is the antichrist. The false prophet is ANOTHER beast, not the first beast with a different description. It is simple understanding what is plainly written without reinterpreting the words.