God demands nothing, He is not a tyrant like men make him out to be. And as long as we believe than we please Him because that is what faith is, everything else is self.
Fear God or Presume acceptance
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No the pharisee is the one who uses His works to justify Himself, seeing to be doing cleaning the outside. You should read your bible. No one can justfy sin, but than few understand what Christ has done too and seems christianity wants to condemn teh world and them,selves with it.
Hi Helen,
That's a very good point!
1 Corinthians 3
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Not even the apostle Paul knew enough to judge himself. So why should we think we are better than that?
It's like @CharismaticLady is saying, having a clean conscience. But just because our conscience is clean doesn't mean everything we've done is right.
But what does he say? Therefore judge nothing before the time when Jesus comes. Forgetting that which is behind, pressing into that which is ahead.
Much love!
I prefer to call it 'the permanence of rebirth'."24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
So much for OSAS
I agree with that.
For the context of this discussion, I like to be more complete.
I think the new man is the new creature, If any be in Christ he is a new creature, a new creation. That is why this man is new. The one who is born of God.
John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Being born of God transfers us from the kingdom of darkness, populated by the children of Adam, into the kingdom of the Beloved, populated by the children of God.
That which is born of God sins not. The wicked touches him not. We have an anchor sure and steadfast, that holds within the veil. We share His nature, being His children. That is the new man.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I agree, and that is the reality I live in. So why do "Christians" harass me, and think it is impossible?
Do you see the subtle shift between these thoughts?
Is a policeman a true policeman because he wears a uniform and and drives a police car, and makes arrests? Predators do that also.
A policeman is a true policeman IF he's he's been qualified and hired as a policeman. His identity is of a policemen because that is what has been decided. Not that we've seen his uniform, and his handcuffs.
Now we go on to ask whether or not he's acting like a policeman. And if we find he's not, then maybe he gets fired.
Do you really believe that you can be enslaved to sin? I don't. He who has died is freed from sin. As we've been pointing out, justified away from it. Having become a slave of righteousness, how would you then become a slave to sin? You don't have the right. You've been purchased. You don't get to decide those things.
What sin can you not overcome . . . by trusting Jesus? That is, by faith?
Yes, I believe that I am reborn in Christ. By your criteria, I am not.
Personal defense time?
Let's stick with the Word.
1 Corinthians 3
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Are these questions relevant? Whether we feel our conscience is clear or not only affects our confidence before God, but does not always reflect our standing before Him.
Have you ever come to realize that something that you used to think was wrong, really, it wasn't? Something you used to think wasn't wrong, actually, for you, it is?
People judge themselves all sorts of ways. Is that what we're supposed to be doing? I don't think so. Relying on our conscience? Are we infallible? I don't think so.
I rely on Jesus, both to guide me here and now, and to be the one to determine whether I'm right or wrong.
This is so much the difference between living life with a mind towards Law, and living life freely in Grace, moment by moment, just trusting Jesus.
Law increases sin. Living under Law is not the abundant life.
Is my conscience clean before God?
Yes.
Romans 4, 5
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
My peace with God is not based on my own behavior, of which I'm not a fit judge. Rather it is based on that Righteous Act of Obedience, that Jesus did, which God accepted. Propitiatory.
Do we want to have that feeling of confidence? To not feel condemnation? Love others, in truth, and in this way, you will have confidence before God.
So the question to ask is, are we talking about faith? Or feelings? God's Word? Or our perceptions of ourselves?
In Romans 6, we are "justified away from sin". What does that mean to you? Forgiveness of past sins? To me that means a complete separation from sin. This is how God tells us to put on the new man, who is created in God's pattern, in righteousness and true holiness.
This is being "justified away from sin".
I'm sorry, I wrote that, but then I realized my error, that this didn't represent you, so I editted it, but it seems you had already read it.
I'm not sure what you mean is weak. Being born from God sharing His nature in a complete and permanent separation from sin by His indwelling presence doesn't seem weak to me.
But I completely agree with you, Only in Him are we sanctified.
Put on the new man!
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Have you not heard me? Is this what you believe I am doing? Living by the law?
I live by the actual meaning of Grace. It is the power of God through His Spirit given to us to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law through righteousness. But the Church in general believes grace is a get out of jail free card, trusting that Jesus will save them in their sin, but not freeing them from their sin.
Most of the Church loves Jesus, but haven't a clue about loving Christ.
Relooking at this, it's the same as what James is talking about. We are justified by our works, but justified to whom? To God? Since He is the One Who justifies us, are works aren't needed by Him. He knows our hearts, knows whether we have faith, He's either given us rebirth or He hasn't.
But people, ourselves, we don't know. The outworking of our faith to prove ourselves is for us, not God.
Abraham could hardly be said to believe God's promise that he would have descendants through Isaac, and that God was able to keep that promise, had he refused to offer Isaac when God told him to, could he? I don't think so.
But it wasn't that sacrifice, it was the previous belief for which Abraham was justified. Abraham's obedience made it clear for all to see that Abraham believed God in fact. But God already knew that. And not simply foreseeing Abraham's obedient work. Rather, God knew the truth of Abraham's heart.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is to give us true assurance, but not this false assurance of the Reformation.
I'm listening closely. Thinking about what you write. Yes, I hope I'm hearing you!
Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Isn't this what you are describing? Approving yourself based on your conscience?
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I'm listening closely. Thinking about what you write. Yes, I hope I'm hearing you!
Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Isn't this what you are describing? Approving yourself based on your conscience?
Much love!
Everyone has a conscience. But the born again man of the Spirit has been given a super-sensitive conscience that has no trouble resisting temptation. The natural man struggles; but the new creation doesn't have to.
Do you remember my lion and the lamb analogy? It is like that.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I can't, unless you are Catholic. It may not be the denomination you are affiliated with, if any, but the teachings of the Reformation have infiltrated the minds of every Protestant denomination. And I'm sorry if that offends you, but I see it in what you say. Especially about grace.
1 John 2:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
If God's righteousness is to eat grass, that is easy if your new creation is a lamb, but impossible if you are still a lion.
This is why the Jews hate our Jesus. They are looking for the Christ, which most Christians don't have. So until we can show them we have Christ, they will never be converted through our teachings. From our discussions I have Jesus Christ, but you only want Jesus. And that is because of the Reformation.
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A conscience resisting temptation? I don't understand that thought.
To me, conscience, "with knowledge", is the awareness or right and wrong.
But we do not sin as we walk in the Spirit.
But the battle is for sure in the mind, as we are to take captive every thought to the obedience of Christ.
For me, the answer is in knowing that as all that is not of faith is sin, then the answer is to remain trusting. And in trusting in Jesus, I'm not even really looking at me, I'm more just looking at the path in front of me. And as I walk that path, it's not a path of sin. It's a path of righteous acts.
Much love!
If you see a similarity between things I say and things others say, please be careful that you are not ascribing to me other people's views. "Their teachings have infiltrated your mind." Hmm.
I prefer to stick to discussing the Scriptures, and what they say.
I prefer not to be stereotyped. I don't think it works so good.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Okay, lets see. So tell me your definition of grace. You can use scripture, but I want your own interpretation.
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I think some make the mistake that when God says that without holiness no one will see God, that this somehow is supposed to mean, unless you make yourself holy, you won't see God, failing to appreciate exactly how it is that we become holy.
It's not by persistance in doing good works, as some seem to think.
Much love!
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