Fear God or Presume acceptance

[marks]

No the pharisee is the one who uses His works to justify Himself, seeing to be doing cleaning the outside. You should read your bible. No one can justfy sin, but than few understand what Christ has done too and seems christianity wants to condemn teh world and them,selves with it.

Exactly!

"I do all these good things, therefore, God accepts me." Not. Self-justified, and meaningless.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I live by the actual meaning of Grace. It is the power of God through His Spirit given to us to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law through righteousness. But the Church in general believes grace is a get out of jail free card, trusting that Jesus will save them in their sin, but not freeing them from their sin.

Most of the Church loves Jesus, but haven't a clue about loving Christ.

I think it is a sad lack in the church to not disciple believers in the faith to stand in grace, and in the full meaning of justification. But I'm doing what I can!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I can't, unless you are Catholic. It may not be the denomination you are affiliated with, if any, but the teachings of the Reformation have infiltrated the minds of every Protestant denomination. And I'm sorry if that offends you, but I see it in what you say. Especially about grace.

The problem comes in if you mingle my teaching with someone else's, as they may not say the same as me. And even if in one respect we say the same words, even think the same thought, but within a different context, you run the risk of ascribing their reasons as mine.

And when you say to me that my thinking is infiltrated with someone's doctrine, so that I cannot understand the Scriptures correctly, what is that? Anyone can say that to anyone, maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong, what of it?

We can look together at Scripture and see what it says.

It's not that this offends me, I just don't find it accurate or useful.

Much love!

 

[marks]

From our discussions I have Jesus Christ, but you only want Jesus. And that is because of the Reformation.

There's a conversation stopper!

Utter nonsense. Now I don't mean to offend, even so.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There's a conversation stopper!

Utter nonsense. Now I don't mean to offend, even so.

It may sound like nonsense, but do you know what I'm saying? What is the difference between Jesus and the Christ the Jews are looking for?

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks
I'll let you think about that one for a while. My microwave just dinged.

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑

For me, the answer is in knowing

And for me the answer is in being.

1 Corinthians 2

Now, let's put my words back into their context . . .

For me, the answer is in knowing that as all that is not of faith is sin, then the answer is to remain trusting. And in trusting in Jesus, I'm not even really looking at me, I'm more just looking at the path in front of me. And as I walk that path, it's not a path of sin. It's a path of righteous acts.

Trusting in Jesus walking in His good works. Somehow this isn't the Christian life to you?

 

[marks]

It may sound like nonsense, but do you know what I'm saying? What is the difference between Jesus and the Christ the Jews are looking for?

I don't know what you are saying about the Christ the Jews are looking for, really, the only Jews I know are Christians.

But what I imagine you are talking about is, well, how I see things written, that when we are talking about Jesus, we are talking more towards His place in our lives as brother, and when we are talking about Christ, we are talking more about the One Who justifies us, Who died for us. But don't hold me to that, it's just how it seems to me as I read the Bible.

So what exactly is it that you think of me in this regard? All Candy and no Work? Something like that?

Free in forgiveness to willy-nilly sin?

Am I misunderstanding you?

I'd sure like to get away from all this personal stuff back to the Word.

I think maybe that's best.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You can use scripture, but I want your own interpretation.

Isn't that what I've been doing?

 

[marks]

@marks
I'll let you think about that one for a while. My microwave just dinged.

Enjoy! Come back when you like.

 

[CharismaticLady]

By your definitions, I am not a child of God. I don't mean to be rude or anything, but seriously. Not reborn, do not know the Creator God, Never Met Jesus, still in my sins, in my natural man life. Am I saying I'm a "gross sinner"? Well, all sins are gross. But there it is.

and

Yes, I believe that I am reborn in Christ. By your criteria, I am not.

Just the opposite. By my definition you are. By your own, you are not.

Do you really believe that you can be enslaved to sin? I don't. He who has died is freed from sin. As we've been pointing out, justified away from it. Having become a slave of righteousness, how would you then become a slave to sin? You don't have the right. You've been purchased. You don't get to decide those things.

Yes, that is why Paul warned those who are dead to sin in Romans 6. You believe it is a given, that we are now slaves to righteousness, but we still have free will, and God allows trials to test us, and perfect us. Peter calls it being like a dog going back to his own vomit.

I'm not sure what you mean is weak. Being born from God sharing His nature in a complete and permanent separation from sin by His indwelling presence doesn't seem weak to me.

First sentence: I'll have to go back to my original post, because what you quoted wasn't enough for me to remember.

Last sentence: I agree. That is strong, not weak.

 

[marks]

You believe it is a given, that we are now slaves to righteousness,

Romans 6
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Curious . . . what does this bolded part mean to you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just the opposite. By my definition you are. By your own, you are not.

I'm sorry, haven't you said that someone who is born again, does not commit what you refer to as "willful sin"? Meaning sin that you recognize as sin before you commit it, and do it anyway? So that someone who commits what you refer to as "willful sin" is not born again?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe that when a child of God perceives thinks that they are in bondage to any sin at all, that is deception from the flesh. "You can't control ME!" it thunders.

But greater is He Who is in me, than he who is in the world. Whomever that "he who is in the world" may be.

Much love!

 

[Helen]

Did you even read the text I gave you? Did you believe it?

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

But there is another cause for assurance in this text which you probably won't believe either, and that is all of my prayers are answered, and I don't mean "no." LOL

You have confidence in how you live and what you do.
Even you constant - " I get all my prayers answered" ...to me is boasting...not boasting in the LORD as Paul did...but pride in trying to show everyone here how special and spiritual you are.

Yet you keep saying you don't sin.

According to YOU you don't . But that sure looks like you fall short, yet boast in yourself to me and how well you live your christian life.

12 "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

God is the only one who can measure how well we are doing.


I can only boast in Knowing all He has done for me..and His keeping power however many times I may slip and fall.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 6
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Curious . . . what does this bolded part mean to you?

Much love!

Exactly what it says. And what I've been debating with you about. So do you believe the Christian is now righteous themselves, or not? Sometimes you say, yes. Sometimes you say, no. You've got a little dichotomy going on.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm sorry, haven't you said that someone who is born again, does not commit what you refer to as "willful sin"? Meaning sin that you recognize as sin before you commit it, and do it anyway? So that someone who commits what you refer to as "willful sin" is not born again?

Much love!

You quoted 1 John 5:18 yourself. I recognized it. So does that person commit willful sin or not?

 

[marks]

Exactly what it says. And what I've been debating with you about. So do you believe the Christian is now righteous themselves, or not? Sometimes you say, yes. Sometimes you say, no. You've got a little dichotomy going on.

I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot, and you aren't really correctly reflecting back what I've been saying.

 

[marks]

Exactly what it says.

Then how can you say that you can become a slave of sin, if you are now a slave of righteousness. Did you make yourself a slave to righteousness, or were you made to be a slave to righteousness?

We were slaves to sin, and now we have been purchased by a new Master. Isn't this the teaching of the Bible?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot, and you aren't really correctly reflecting back what I've been saying.

That is deflecting.