Finding a church

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michaelvpardo

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while i dont know for sure, i have a feeling that what we call “church” now are deemed “love feasts” by the Bible, which would change the dynamic there quite a bit i guess, but one point might be that we are now worried about abandoning our love feasts, and not Church, having mis-labeled “Church”

ah, did the number work for you? It just struck me as a commentary that it was disconnected; doesnt mean that it is though i guess

well, id agree with “counterfeit” maybe, but as much as i dislike Rome, i guess we also still need Rome, kinda weird

and Catholic Charities is the best modern example of “storehouse” that i have been able to find; they help anyone in need! Although i guess they are more like a satellite of the RCC
I'm just saying that the important thing is to trust the Lord and follow his guidance.

I had a friend in my old neighborhood named John.
I'd see him riding his bicycle past the house, muttering to himself, sometimes angry and with cursing, but I met him in a Saturday morning mens' prayer meeting. I think he came for the bagels and friendly faces.

It turned out that John had been born partially strangled by his own umbilical cord and had suffered brain damage. He had very limited learning capacity and I gave him a collection of audible Bible tapes so that he could listen to scripture.
Sometimes I had him as a guest for lunch and then read scripture to him and answered questions to help him understand. He had some issues with covetousness, always admiring wrist watches and asking me for old wallets, places to hold tracts and "pictures of Jesus". His mother and father were Catholics, but welcomed the moderation of his behavior when sitting "under the word."

He clearly believed the Lord with a very simple faith, and the Lord spoke prophetically through him on one or two occasions. The Lord is not limited by our limitations. His word is a source for our faith, but His Spirit makes His word alive in our hearts. Agape is transforming to both the one who receives it and the one who gives it. Our understanding comes from scripture, but the application of agape to others is really a defining point of any church and the only way to satisfy the royal commandment.

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35
A church without love is a lifeless church and love goes beyond banners, balloons, and handshakes.
 

michaelvpardo

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I was once a sincere, faithful to God, young Catholic altar boy. I never had any serious complaints about Catholics as a whole when I was among them... but I honestly did not know much. I never even owned a Bible then.

As a practicing Catholic I was blessed by God and cannot ever forget or deny that... even though God did bring me out of there a great many years ago.

Off the top of my head, today, I would not recommend that any person join the Catholic Church. However, I do not always know God's pathway for other people, so I try stand back in silence unless a person or God presses me to speak... We need to be careful about letting people do that.

Since my participation in online forums began more than 20 years ago, I have encountered at least two Catholics, who, to me, presented better walks with God than many of the apparently Protestant members. One of them was on this forum.

Give God the glory!
I've met born again Catholics and my maternal grandfather was devout and a charitable man. I just don't recall ever hearing the gospel preached in that church and know that it isn't grace dispensed through a priesthood.

However, I do know Roman Catholics who literally hate me for my faith and feel justified in that hatred. Most of my extended family is still in that church, but I've found that very few have any grasp on sound biblical doctrine, or demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit. I'm also pretty confident that arrogance isn't a spiritual gift and how many people are arrogant over an accident of birth?
 
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theefaith

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Yes, only one with one Head which is Jesus. How do we get into it? Should we follow a man or the Spirit of God?

Christ and what he teaches
Including the authority of the church of the apostles that he founded

The church is an extension of Christ!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

amadeus

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I've met born again Catholics and my maternal grandfather was devout and a charitable man. I just don't recall ever hearing the gospel preached in that church and know that it isn't grace dispensed through a priesthood.

However, I do know Roman Catholics who literally hate me for my faith and feel justified in that hatred. Most of my extended family is still in that church, but I've found that very few have any grasp on sound biblical doctrine, or demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit. I'm also pretty confident that arrogance isn't a spiritual gift and how many people are arrogant over an accident of birth?
I grew up in a small California town which was primarily Catholic. My mother married a Catholic, who was a better than the average worldly man. Like most of his close family living in the vicinity, he never attended mass. Yet the Catholics were most all very Catholic very certain that the small minority of Protestants and Mormons present were definitely lost.

While I was a devout Catholic in California, my father is Oklahoma was a believing practicing Pentecostal. I spent time him most summers so that influence was always on me although I could not understand the differences at the time between his church and my own. There were no Pentecostals in my hometown.

I encountered no real Catholic opposition to me until I began to frequent Christian Internet forums a little over 20 years ago.
 
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amadeus

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Christ and what he teaches
Including the authority of the church of the apostles that he founded

The church is an extension of Christ!
The Church is the Body of Christ! It consists of people. How much authority does the little toe of our left foot have over our physical body?
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
You insist the Catholic Church is it, but you are unable name a single apostle.
So the church is subject to Christ!
The Church has subjected or is subjecting itself to Christ. While any members are still flawed and sinning, the subjection to the Head is incomplete.
...Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
You keep saying that, but you are unable to name one successor actively working God's work today!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
But you cannot name a single one...
 

michaelvpardo

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I grew up in a small California town which was primarily Catholic. My mother married a Catholic, who was a better than the average worldly man. Like most of his close family living in the vicinity, he never attended mass. Yet the Catholics were most all very Catholic very certain that the small minority of Protestants and Mormons present were definitely lost.

While I was a devout Catholic in California, my father is Oklahoma was a believing practicing Pentecostal. I spent time him most summers so that influence was always on me although I could not understand the differences at the time between his church and my own. There were no Pentecostals in my hometown.

I encountered no real Catholic opposition to me until I began to frequent Christian Internet forums a little over 20 years ago.
Papal dogma is a bronze box that only God can open.
 
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Mantis

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That's an odd bit of information to put in a brochure and suggests a certain weakness in faith, but in some places rents or mortgages are high, workers are all paid employees rather than volunteers, etc., but you're wise to consider such things and that seems like excessive expenditure. Just having that in a brochure would be a "red flag" to me.

Yeah I thought it was a lot of money to operate. I really like the preacher and his preaching and I think he knows Jesus. He baptized me. I now attend another church but I have nothing against them
 
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michaelvpardo

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The Church is the Body of Christ! It consists of people. How much authority does the little toe of our left foot have over our physical body?

You insist the Catholic Church is it, but you are unable name a single apostle.
The Church has subjected or is subjecting itself to Christ. While any members are still flawed and sinning, the subjection to the Head is incomplete.


You keep saying that, but you are unable to name one successor actively working God's work today!

But you cannot name a single one...
I'm watching a very carnal TV series about Rodrigo Borgia and his family. The show is an historical fiction, but the Apostate and lecherous Popes are well documented and like that relative everyone neglects to invite to parties. These tend to be hidden in the closet with the rest of the skeletons, but an honest RCC apologists will claim that apostolic succession is through "office" as was the Jewish priesthood.

Most of the questionable practices of the RCC are derived by applying the Law and traditions of the Jews to the church. In this way such practices are supported by scripture, but by the Old Covenant rather than the New.
For many centuries ignorance was power and wealth to Rome, but only bliss to a few.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Yeah I thought it was a lot of money to operate. I really like the preacher and his preaching and I think he knows Jesus. He baptized me. I now attend another church but I have nothing against them
When the church leadership is carnally minded, they make decisions and conduct church "business" in worldly ways. I bumped into this a little bit while on one church's mission board and when asked to participate on a church expansion project. I suppose that this is one area where we need to be "as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves."

Some churches pick leadership based upon worldly success (and church donations) while others look for spiritual maturity. The former are sometimes larger in number, however the latter seem more faithful and alive. That's just my experience, but I've never even seen a church that held all things in common. It's definitely not the way in the western world except in cults. Perhaps that will change in the last days.

However, even carnal minded elders are preferable to none.
 
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theefaith

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The Church is the Body of Christ! It consists of people. How much authority does the little toe of our left foot have over our physical body?

You insist the Catholic Church is it, but you are unable name a single apostle.
The Church has subjected or is subjecting itself to Christ. While any members are still flawed and sinning, the subjection to the Head is incomplete.


You keep saying that, but you are unable to name one successor actively working God's work today!

But you cannot name a single one...

I can for sure
 

amadeus

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I can for sure
Does this mean my faith should be where yours is... because, you are sure? Is not turn about fair play? Should I take your place and you take mine? Would that please God or anyone?
 

farouk

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When the church leadership is carnally minded, they make decisions and conduct church "business" in worldly ways. I bumped into this a little bit while on one church's mission board and when asked to participate on a church expansion project. I suppose that this is one area where we need to be "as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves."

Some churches pick leadership based upon worldly success (and church donations) while others look for spiritual maturity. The former are sometimes larger in number, however the latter seem more faithful and alive. That's just my experience, but I've never even seen a church that held all things in common. It's definitely not the way in the western world except in cults. Perhaps that will change in the last days.

However, even carnal minded elders are preferable to none.
I do think when for example a Christian couple unsparingly spends years entertaining and encouraging young ppl and older in their home, making them know they are welcome and without regard to their personal inconvenience and cost, then this is more in the spirit of the liberality of NT times than when a cult leader preys on impressionable ppl's bank accounts under the pressurizing guise of 'spiritual leadership'.
 
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Ziggy

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Ps , ziggy is a sister . Just reminding . Now let all that draws breath praise and thank the glorious LORD .
It's ok friend,
I been called brother, dude, soggy..lol
it's all good.
The only time I make a stink about it is when they feel they are the "bigger" man.
Then I need to knock them down a peg or two :)
It don't matter male or female, what is important is respect for each other.
In Christ, I'm as much a brother as a sister as a mother or a son or a daughter for anyone.

Here is the difference:

Hello brother ziggy how are you today?
Awesome thank you!

This dude thinks he's so smart.
Have some respect for your sister. Grrrr.
LOL

It's about respect.
And it's all good.
Hugs
:D
 

amigo de christo

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It's ok friend,
I been called brother, dude, soggy..lol
it's all good.
The only time I make a stink about it is when they feel they are the "bigger" man.
Then I need to knock them down a peg or two :)
It don't matter male or female, what is important is respect for each other.
In Christ, I'm as much a brother as a sister as a mother or a son or a daughter for anyone.

Here is the difference:

Hello brother ziggy how are you today?
Awesome thank you!

This dude thinks he's so smart.
Have some respect for your sister. Grrrr.
LOL

It's about respect.
And it's all good.
Hugs
:D
While i have never been mistaken for a woman
i have been called plenty of names dear sister .
here are a few . Son of perdtion , an anti Christ , devil , satan , blasphemer , hater , danger to society
dangerous . PS , i dont even believe in self defense , yeah i get a laugh when folks think me as dangerous
just cause i stick to the fundamental doctrine of our Lord , that bible . Anway that is just a few of the names .
The cuss words , Yeah i wont repeat . Been yelled at , screamed at . Never punched or kicked , Not yet anyway .
And all because of my love for the peoples and the desire that not one soul would perish
but rather they would come to Christ and learn HIM . You would be amazed at the names you wll get called
for correcting error and etc . But , REJOICE SISTER . REJOICE IN THE GLOIROUS LORD when you are called
names for JESUS sake . Forgive those who persecute you , BUT NEVER CONFORM TO A lie . Never conform
agree to that which is contrary to GOD ,to CHRIST , to sound doctrine .
 

Ziggy

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You may be right. I don't receive broadcast TV out in the boonies, and cable TV is way too expensive here, but I need internet service to use my phone at home and just stream news and entertainment. ABC has a segment for "faith fridays" and their lady "reverend" talks about things like "karma" and reminds me of an old Flip Wilson skit on "the church of what's happening now."

I don't know how men like Joel Osteen are doing these days, but frauds find ways to prosper.
My Dad has Dish Network set up here. He usually watches the westerns when he comes to visit, and he likes Fox news.
So he keeps it active so he has somethhing to watch when he's here.
I don't watch tv, but every now and then my dad will call and ask me if I watched Dr. David Jeremiah.
I like him too but I don't watch. So what I been doing is, when he comes on in the morning I record the program.
So when my dad comes to visit and the sattelite isn't working due to bad weather or something,
we can always watch reruns. Then it's like the first time for both of us. Because I never seen it, and my dad usually doses off in the middle anyways. lol
It's almost April and the weather is getting better. The ground is still real soft. And if you go out walking, your feet sink into the ground.
He uses a walker, and the last time he came over was in January? and he got out of the car, reached for the walker and the 4 legs sank right into the ground. As soon as it dries up a bit, he'll be back to visit. Sometimes he stays for a week or so. Other times it's a night or two.
If nothing else it's a change of scenery for him, and a good time for testing my patience.
:D

Hugs
 
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