First day worship

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Pavel Mosko

Member
Dec 19, 2021
58
20
8
56
Boyertown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@BarneyFife here is another piece of evidence on the issue of regeneration. It comes from the Adventist fear of the dreaded coming "Sunday Law". What is up with that? The Coptic Church and other Middle Eastern Christians are a literal remnant (rather than a hypothetical one as Adventism claims to be) and have a much different attitude when it comes to facing death for their faith.
This last Sunday was Pentecost Sunday in some of the Eastern Christian Churches. I actually reposted a Coptic Essay on the Martyrs that I think is very good on a few different issues (Christian witnessing, the Charismatic / Supernatural gifts and how they relate to the fruit of Spirit etc.).


Church of Martyrs", H.G. Bishop Youssef

"Let's look at the origin for the term, "martyr."
The risen Lord Jesus Christ said, "You shall be MY WITNESSES in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

As He sent out His disciples throughout the world, they were to be HIS WITNESSES. Thus the Greek word for WITNESS is "MARTYR." We may be witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ by the way in which we live our lives, by setting a good example for others to follow, and showing others the love that we have for the Lord. But we may be called upon to follow our Lord Jesus Christ to the end of the way of the Cross. We may be asked willingly to give our lives rather than abandon our loyalty to Him.

The early Church thought of this death as the complete and final act of witnessing. Thus the term "martyr" has become to mean one who witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ by dying for His Holy Name. The Coptic Church has innumerable martyrs and saints. It is historically famous for its long-suffering and courageous capabilities to sustain persecutions and hardships. In honor of these Christians who gave their life so that others might find theirs, lets discuss the Holy Spirit and His work in the life of the martyr.

The Coptic Orthodox faithful believe that all miracles, supernatural gifts, all wonders, and powers are due to the Holy Spirit's work within man. It is not due to a special human power. The Holy Spirit teaches, guides, and edifies. It reminds us that He gives all.

St Paul, the Apostle, asked the believers to pray always with all prayer and supplication, "for all the saints and for me, that utterance may be given to me that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the Gospel." (Ephesians 6:18-19).

St Paul also asserted that, "the manifestation of the Spirit is given" the profit of all" (I Corinthians 12:7) and "that the church may receive edification" (I Corinthians 14:4) and also, "for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God." (Ephesians 4:12)

Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit were not for boasting, for earthly honor, nor for vainglory, but for edifying the church.

The martyrs were strong and non-compromising in their Christian beliefs and never denied the Lord their God. They had absolutely no fear of death, and their difficulties, sufferings, trials, and imprisonments neither troubled them nor deflected them from their purpose. The important thing was that they WITNESSED for the Lord Jesus Christ.

They let whatever was to happen, happen. Death was the only means in which to silence their proclamation of the Lord Jesus Christ as the risen Savior. The cost they paid was not the end to their earthly life but the beginning of an eternal one. They bore and harvested the Fruit of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit leads this Fruit of the Spirit. St Paul the Apostle said, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23) We know the martyrs experienced all these fruits of righteousness even until their death. Death in the Lord Jesus Christ's name meant the ultimate attainment of these Fruits of the Spirit. It would mean Eternal Glory for those who allowed the Holy Spirit to work in them. Therefore the martyrs had the assurance of an unending Joy.

Even faith itself, is the work of the Holy Spirit. Psychologically, a normal person without the comfort of the Holy Spirit would be fearful of facing certain death. Without the Holy Spirit one would view death as the end of life. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself said, "All things are possible to him who believes." (Mark 9:23) The MARTYRS BELIEVED.

I Corinthians 12:3 states, "no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit." The martyrs were able to accept faith due to the work of the Holy Spirit. They allowed the Holy Spirit to fulfill their lives. They were consumed with the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

When God's Spirit dwells in someone, He sanctifies him or her. He sanctified the martyrs. The whole of the martyr was sanctified; his heart, his mind, his body, his spirit and his soul. He sanctified their life in general. "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless"; (I Thessalonians 5:23) God dwelt in the martyrs. He sanctified their life and yielded the Fruit of the Spirit in it.

The martyrs sole aim was the Lord Jesus Christ and their life with Him in blissful Eternity. Simply, that is why they followed Him wholeheartedly even to their death. Unheeding temptations and tortures of which none could alter their heart which abided in the Lord. St Paul the Apostle said, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels not principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:35-39)

The martyrs left us with many lessons and examples that impact upon our lives today. Most probably the most valuable is discernment between Fruit of the Spirit and gifts. Fruit of the Spirit has to do with life and eternity. Gifts are mostly for the benefit of others and can possibly lead to pride and vainglory. Gifts are referring here to wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, working miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, and interpretation (I Corinthians 12:8-11). The martyrs were primarily concerned with Fruits of the Spirit rather than gifts.

The martyr's Fruit of the Spirit made him all-powerful in everything. "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be WITNESS TO ME"; (Acts 1:8). This was the promise of the Lord to His Holy Disciples. Attesting to this, a powerful person, such as a martyr, overcomes fear of losing his life, his ministry is powerful, and they have a strong influence on others. Fruits of the Spirit will distinguish him in every good deed.

The power and strength of the martyrs was found within the work shared with the Holy Spirit. They felt the power of God within them. They were spiritually strong and without weakness. They had communion with God's Spirit.

The martyrs became a temple of God and the Holy Spirit dwelt in them. Psalm 93:5 sums up the existence of their life:

"As He who called you is Holy, you also be Holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be Holy, for I am Holy.' " (I Peter 1:15-16)

The Coptic Church commemorates to this day, its countless martyrs, by a Coptic Calendar in which the years are dated from anno martyrum, (AM) the "Year of the Martyr." This calendar recalls to all Copts the great persecution of the Christians that began in Egypt in 284 A.D.

We thank the Lord our God for these great men and women who had the dedication and courage to remain faithful to Christianity with the totality of their lives. They stood as firm WITNESSES to the Word of God. TRULY THIS IS GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST!
 
Last edited:

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
8,981
6,219
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Pavel Mosko

If you want to start a thread on a topic and focus on discussing it, I'm all in, but I'm not going to dance around amidst some rapid-fire, Mexican jumping bean dialogue. If you think what I've been doing is "rebuking" or "warning," you might want to grow some thicker skin or go find a safe space (I know that CF will do for that) where you won't have to endure plain talk.

Again, welcome to the forum. :)
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
8,981
6,219
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
the Adventist fear of the dreaded coming "Sunday Law"
Why would I dread a Sunday Law? I'm a Seventh-day Adventist.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

Pavel Mosko

Member
Dec 19, 2021
58
20
8
56
Boyertown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
lol your "Mexican jumping bean" comment did get a laugh and a grin from me @BarneyFife. I suppose I will bow out of this conversation if you think I am hijacking things, but you made the mistake of asking to defend my stance and that is very involved. :) Take Care and best wishes. to you and yours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarneyFife

GRACE ambassador

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2021
2,371
1,532
113
71
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I will bow out of this conversation if you think I am hijacking things, but you made the mistake of asking to defend my stance and that is very involved.
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided! (+ I and II!) * ← PG rated "Approved" *

Grace, Peace, And JOY!…

* PG = Perfect God / Parental Guidance:


Study to Be APPROVED Open Bible.png
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
8,981
6,219
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
lol your "Mexican jumping bean" comment did get a laugh and a grin from me @BarneyFife. I suppose I will bow out of this conversation if you think I am hijacking things, but you made the mistake of asking to defend my stance and that is very involved. :) Take Care and best wishes. to you and yours.
No need to run off. Nothing to hijack here—open forum. Sorry for the 'mistake.' ;) Blessings to you. :waves:
 

M3n0r4h

Active Member
Jun 3, 2023
407
154
43
South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have worshiped with Messianic congregations that used a repackaged Jewish liturgy that place the emphasis on Jesus/Yeshua. While I have heard some stories about some congregation making certain practices as being binding, (Sat Sabbath, dietary practices, and facing east towards Jerusalem), most of them that I worshiped at worshiped in a manner akin to other conservative Christian groups. I learned a lot about the culture that Jesus/Yeshua was brought up in, and gained insight to what I had thought were obscure references or statements made by Jesus/Yeshua in the NT.

One thing that became clear is that the feast of Firstfruits, during the week feast of Unleavened Bread, which Christian denominations celebrate as Resurrection Day/Easter, was established in the Torah. This day of Firstfruits was a 'first day'of the week celebration. The counting of the Omer also started during the feast of Unleavened Bread, which was 49 days, or seven weeks plus one day. This was Shavuot/Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (50), and was also celebrated on the first day of the week. So on Firstfruits, Christians celebrate the resurrection of their Savior and become joint heirs of that salvation by uniting by faith with Jesus/Yeshua, and on Pentecost, Christians celebrate the gift of the Holy Spirit, which some would argue was the official birth of the Church of Christ.

When I ponder on these two 'first day of the week' feasts that play a vital role in the practice of Christianity, I have to ask myself if God was telegraphing the new covenant by embedding those two feasts in the old covenant. IMO, the answer to that question is between the individual believer and God, however I have no problem with worshiping on either day.


Hebrews 7:12
King James Version

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Could the fact that we have a new High Priest also mean that there is a change in the old Sabbath as well as the old law? We need no temple during this age of grace, because we have become the temple of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus/Yeshua is our final sacrifice for sins and our High priest forever. Each must decide for themselves. Again, it's either or for me.