Flat Earth Theory

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Chihuahua

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I did not say "emotionally", I used the word personally. There is a difference. Someone who just joined the forum yesterday, and speaks as you do, may have other interests, perhaps financial, that cause them to be here.
People do not like having their faith or opinions questioned. They tend to get emotional. I can state matters of scientific facts without feeling personally and that really is emotionally, invested. If you want to argue that Bombay is the capital of India - I really don't care. I would point out it is referred to as Mumbai now and it isn't the capital.

It is known that there are Russian, Chinese, and North Korean internet operatives that try to sway opinion. Psychological influence exists. However, there is no reason for any organization to pay me to make posts on a tiny Christian board. If there was a real conspiracy it would be shut down faster than websites that have unsavory and illegal things. Critics would go missing.

But after all, I am a conspiracy theorist, so maybe I'm just being suspicious.
Some people are paranoid and I do not dispute the validity of their feelings and suspicions, but I am concerned when they spread misinformation which can seriously harm people. It may seem funny or "I am just sayin'..." but there is real harm being done when you question science and misinterpret scripture to prevent vaccines or receiving life saving transfusions.
At your suggestion, I will remove my tin foil hat for a moment and present my other hypothesis.

The way you speak to people suggests you don't have many friends,
Actually, I am quite personable in life and play well with others. If I wanted to take a dig at you I'd play armchair psychologist and say you are projecting. You believe in conspiracies and seem hellbent of self reliance. I am not a psychologist and if I were, that would be grossly inappropriate on many levels.

the shallowness of your arguments suggest you are educated just well enough check the readings and adjust the dials in your laboratory.
In what way are my points shallow? I do not check readings and dials except for five minutes in a shift when it is my turn. I work in a hospital laboratory. I previously did purely experimental research in cancer. I do not believe for a moment I am better than anyone else because I have degrees. I refuse to wear a lab coat and sign emails with only my first name.

The face on your badge is probably full of blemishes and void of anything resembling a smile, which probably comes from eating to many hot pockets in mothers basement.

I don't eat hot pockets and my parents do not have a basement. This sounds like a bit of a dig.

Your life is dull and void of meaning, because you have fully embraced the idea that your ancestors swung from trees and one day the sun will explode returning you to the nothingness from which you came.
No, I find God and meaning in all things. I always pray on the way to work, not for me, but in what I do.
I have faith in Christ and in the Resurrection. My body will return to dust and one day the Sun will make life uninhabitable. What is really interesting is what happens after that to what was once our matter.

You're insecure, disingenuous and struggle with reading comprehension.

I thought you wrote I was well educated. How am I insecure or disingenuous?

And yet you enjoy picking apart another persons grammar because of the wholly imagined sense of superiority you get by belittling others.

I do not pick on grammar. I do not belittle others. You throw out accusations without any citations or evidence.

You presume to have insight into the character and motivations of people you have never met, but are void of character or insight yourself.

Is that not what you are doing now? I will not presume or resort to armchair psychology
I personally do not care much for presumption or making presumptuous statements, but since you started this little game, why not play along?
What presumptions or presumptuous statements?
Of course, I'm probably well wide of the mark in everything I said, and well aware of it. But like yourself, I enjoy being an ahole from time to time. Where you and I differ in this regard, is I know when I'm being a prick, where in your case, its simply the default setting.
I think that is a good thing and it is always important to focus on what we lack instead of assuming that we got Jesus and can do whatever. I have consistently avoided talking about my super fancy degrees. What I care about is doing what God made me to do. If I was meant to run a food truck that made amazing food... in Heaven God will show me how many lives I saved by lifting the spirits of those that saved lives. Do not think for one second I believe I am better than anyone.


This is your second day on the forum, it is my last. I don't like arguments or debate, argument and debate is pretty much all that happens here.

I once visited a cancer patient who accepted the end of his treatment. I came back and talked to him sometime later. I sat down on the chair next to his bed.

You do occasionally meet good and decent people that lift your spirits and sharpen your mind, but rarely. So I've decided to get back into my books and the host of other tangible things that add value to my life, and leave this place behind.

I'd like to say its been a pleasure, but with all my obvious faults, dishonesty is not among their number. Do enjoy your stay.

The final word is yours, make better use of it than you have thus far.

Farewell Chihuahua, the name suits you well.

Trust in God, I will praise Him still, my savior and my God.
I memorized the Psalms. I was asked here what my favorite passage/verse was.
Psalm 88.
 
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Archie

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You're the second person in this conversation that has him on ignore :)
I'm not proud of a single word I said to him, and I'm sure I'll be repenting later in prayer. But I already hit the button, and I'm not going to delete the post.

This place brings me down and brings out the worst in me. It reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain
"Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig likes it."

I try very hard to be kind,
especially with those whom I have disagreement with, but its exhausting for me, which tells me that whatever I'm doing here, is not being done in the Spirit.

But that's just my experience, I'm sure that there are others who are called to be here and God uses them. I'm not one of them, this is definitely not my ministry, or even somewhere I feel comfortable being. Too much debate, too much arguing, far too little rejoicing, far too little agreement in the Spirit.

Take care rvmb

God bless and Godpeed
 
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Chihuahua

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Yet, you both wrote about me.

Having a bad day Chi ?
"Not at all. If you wish to discuss whatever that is about that is fine. I suggest either explaining how it relates to this topic and what your point is, or create a topic to prevent derailment and we can go from there. You need to explain what you are getting at. This sort of response is not constructive."

You did not. The issue is that you have no basis for what you cling to emotionally and offer this. Archie has said he was going to leave previously.

I wonder if it bothers you that I will not resort to your level. Hot pockets in my mom's basement?
 

Chihuahua

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I'm not proud of a single word I said to him, and I'm sure I'll be repenting later in prayer. But I already hit the button, and I'm not going to delete the post.

It really isn't that big of a deal. That you do not resort to trollish tactics reveals much about your character, and I mean that sincerely.
If you make a mistake, admit it. That is what I learned in research. People mess up and sometimes that mistake, if admitted to,, saves lives.
This place brings me down and brings out the worst in me. It reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain
"Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig likes it."

I try very hard to be kind,
especially with those whom I have disagreement with, but its exhausting for me, which tells me that whatever I'm doing here, is not being done in the Spirit.
All you need to do is pray, not for yourself, but for others. I get mad too. My life isn't about doctrines of science or Jesus necessarily, but what I learn from what he taught. He had some interesting choices.

But that's just my experience, I'm sure that there are others who are called to be here and God uses them. I'm not one of them, this is definitely not my ministry, or even somewhere I feel comfortable being. Too much debate, too much arguing, far too little rejoicing, far too little agreement in the Spirit.

Take care rvmb

God bless and Godpeed
I do not believe for a minute that God calls us to an easy road. I have found myself saying... I can't do this, I am scared. I believe through the people around me that encouraged me, God lifted me up.
 

rvmb

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I'm not proud of a single word I said to him, and I'm sure I'll be repenting later in prayer. But I already hit the button, and I'm not going to delete the post.

This place brings me down and brings out the worst in me. It reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain
"Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig likes it."

I try very hard to be kind,
especially with those whom I have disagreement with, but its exhausting for me, which tells me that whatever I'm doing here, is not being done in the Spirit.

But that's just my experience, I'm sure that there are others who are called to be here and God uses them. I'm not one of them, this is definitely not my ministry, or even somewhere I feel comfortable being. Too much debate, too much arguing, far too little rejoicing, far too little agreement in the Spirit.

Take care rvmb

God bless and Godpeed
""I'm not proud of a single word""
Matt 5:22 - I believe you had a cause.
 

Rudometkin

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I have already explained...
First, if you are complaining that you already explained something, and then explaining it again, then why are you explaining it again? Are you perhaps, as you later talk about, just looking for an excuse to 'throw out random words'?

If you think you explained something the first time, why explain a second time, when I haven't asked, and it is not even relevant to my questions? Don't you think you would be wasting your time repeating yourself when I haven't even asked you to?

I did not ask you to re-explain something you explained. At this point as far as I am concerned, you are going off on a tangent of random words.

I asked you two questions that you avoided. Every sharp person here can see it if they consider our conversation. Please address this topic:

1. Do you consider (not, "do you respond to") video evidence?

2. What is evidence to you? (That is, what constitutes 'evidence'?)

...people that make outrageous claims...
Outrageous things happen in life, so just because someone makes a claim that sounds outrageous to you does not mean the claim itself is absurd. Perhaps the claim is the truth. Don't you want truth? Why don't you handle what might be true more carefully? Would you have to shed too much arrogance for that?

Also, what claim have I made that is outrageous? Or how is this tangent of yours relevant to me? I say the moon landing may have been faked, and there is apparent video footage of the mission being faked. So now are you implying that considering logical possibilities is an outrageous act? It would therefore appear your position is that thinking critically is outrageous. So please clarify and answer all of my questions.

...will resort to the tactic of taking 10 seconds to post a video as if it provides evidence for whatever absurdity they present.
Sometimes videos do provide evidence, and not everything you perceive as absurd is absurd.

And you are the one calling it absurdity. What exactly is the absurdity in our case, and how? Can you explain it without being arrogant or from ignorance? Because so far your claims have been from arrogance and ignorance, and you have given false claims that I already showed and addressed. Please be accurate and logical.

The respondent will take ten minutes writing out how stupid the video is...
What if the video is not stupid? Then the respondent would be the ridiculous one for claiming it is stupid?

You have a dialogue in your mind that you're playing out here, and it was practically a waste of my time to read because it doesn't even apply to me. It is as if you are just complaining that I sent you evidence. Evidence that you claimed I didn't have!

only to be responded to with LOL!! Here is a 59.53 minute video showing you are wrong! LOL.

Use your words.
Great, random words from you that I get to deal with.

You say I have no evidence, and when I provide apparent video evidence, you say, "Use your words". Then you say, "You are not addressing the issue".

You appear to be stuck in a silly loop of remaining ignorant and confused on the matter. Because it is ignorant to say I am not addressing the issue when I have already addressed it, and you seem to be confused because you say I am not addressing it after I addressed it.

So are only words evidence to you? You want me to use my words to address the issue of providing evidence? If so, hmm...what word evidence would lead you to consider the possibility that the moon landing was faked?

What about video evidence? Does your mind carry the rule/assumption:
  • "If it sounds outrageous to me, then there is no video that can prove it."
Is this perhaps a rule you follow or perhaps an assumption you make?

Because you reject my video evidence of something you consider outrageous, and you do it without sufficient explanation or justification.

To be clear, we're not just talking about the moon landing being faked. We're talking about it being possible the moon landing was faked.

How is that arrogant or ignorant? How am I overestimating myself or showing lack of knowledge?
Sure, I can provide elementary reasoning to explain your arrogance on this matter, since you will not reflect on yourself well enough to satisfy your own questions.

You arrogantly and ignorantly said my evidence that 'perhaps the moon landing didn't happen' is non-existent.

It is arrogant because you don't know the quantity of evidence I possess, yet you plainly declare the quantity as if you knew. It is ignorant in the sense that you ignored the possibility that I do have evidence in order to declare I possess none. Or, you lacked fundamental knowledge that it is a possibility at all.

Did you really need me for this?

If you engaged yourself in more self-reflection, I wouldn't have to do so much heavy lifting to help you think critically. I am happy to teach you and explain, but you ought to be careful to not continue being arrogant with me while I spend the time to do this. I hope you will respond rationally, as I am.

I know what you are doing. You are not addressing the very issue. You have been given ample opportunity to show how the moon landing was fake,
I call bologna. Gobblygook. You evidently do not know what I am doing in this case.

You mean the issue of showing how the moon landing is fake?

I showed evident video footage of NASA blatantly deceiving America on the way to their supposed moon destination. This is some evidence the moon landing was faked directly by NASA's evident deception toward the American people who funded them.

So now you have said: "Your evidence is non-existent" to the idea the moon landing was faked, then when I showed you with video evidence that it does exist, you said "you are not addressing the very issue".

Ironically, the 'very issue' in this specific matter has to do with evidence, which I have provided and therefore addressed, and you are right here trying to justify why you are not addressing it. You are accusing me of not addressing the issue, yet you are the one not addressing it. So what is the definition of 'hypocrite'?

Address this issue of the evidence you arrogantly say I do not have!

You are free to discredit the video. But you ought to experience the video first and dismantle it logically while showing your work, otherwise you are blindly discrediting it with little to no basis. I put forth something as evidence, and you refuse to engage with it. How considerate are you? How much are you willing to test? How much of mankind do you simply trust?

the world is flat, there is a multinational, multi-corporational conspiracy over centuries which you have yet to offer any motive towards.
Is this needed? Why?

The multinational conspiracy point was raised to provide another possibility you did not allow for in your dichotomy. I don't have to offer motive. You're just wanting a motive. Also, I already suggested money is a motive for governments to deceive people.

I am holding the rational position with my fair skepticism and respect to logical possibility. You on the other hand say foolish things, like making claims you have no authority making.
 
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Rudometkin

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Now you are writing that perhaps...

  • "I shared apparent footage of NASA blatantly faking the crescent of the earth with some kind of crescent shaped object. Also, lying about their travel times. All while supposedly on their way to the moon."

You did no such thing.
You don't have the authority to reasonably say I didn't.

You are avoiding evidence. You scared of it? If so, don't be scared of it. Address it.

Of course, I am demonstrably right and you are demonstrably wrong in this case, and you don't even want to watch the video. But you ridiculously want to make declarative statements on the video. That is foolish.

So you do not want to watch the video, yet you are so arrogant and ignorant that you publicly declare what it isn't? This is embarrassing for you. Yet it is apparent you have no shame.

How do you know what the video shows and doesn't show if you have not watched it?

It seems you are effectively saying, "You don't have proof!" And when I prove you wrong by showing you proof, you keep your eyes closed, saying "Nu-uh! You don't have any!"

You are not refraining from what a rational person ought to refrain from doing. In this specific case, a rational person ought to:
  1. Not claim someone's evidence is non-existent when they don't even know whether it is.
  2. Not claim someone didn't provide a video that they demonstrably provided.
Perhaps the reality is you just cannot bear to open your eyes and address it. Maybe your mind is too fragile to consider the possibility, and you are protecting yourself from seeing something that you are afraid may crumble the structures you were indoctrinated with as a youngling.

I do not want to watch an hour long conspiracy video...
Then don't tell me I don't have evidence of a conspiracy, bud. Mind your business.

Also, I didn't ask you to watch an hour long conspiracy video. So why are you bringing that up to me?

I said: "Watch from at least the 34:23 minute mark to the 40:30 minute mark."

Chihuahua, that is 6 minutes and 7 seconds.

That is approximately 10.19% of an hour. That is about 1/10th of an hour. So why are you telling me you don't want to watch an hour long video, when I made it clear I dedicated just about 6 minutes of footage, with clear timestamps? Are you so ignorant that you ignored even that?

...narrated by people who use folks like you as click-bait.
How is this relevant to me?

How do you know that? How do you know they aren't simply trying to spread truth, and folks like me are spreading the truth they shared? Now you are the conspiracy theorist in this case!

That is, if the narrator of the video I shared is intending to profit off of my gullibility, then they are conspiring against me. Since you have put forth this concept, it is safe to say you are technically a conspiracy theorist. Also, you have not proven your conspiracy.

You do understand that, right?
Your proposed conspiracy? Well it's a conspiracy theory. It's possible. But how is this question relevant to me? Are you proposing your conspiracy theory as true without providing evidence for it?

I think it is fair to say not even you understand the video nor the intentions behind it. You would be assuming. Ignorant of the possibilities.

But please provide evidence. Or do you not have it?

People profit off of you and your gullibility.
Who? I suppose here is more of your conspiracy theory. I understand you are a conspiracy theorist, but I think you wouldn't know if the people in the video do, especially if you haven't watched it.

Moving forward... Let's see:

  • You seem to take the position NASA is honest and legitimate in their endeavors. This makes you potentially gullible.

  • I take the position of skepticism and affirm "maybe we are victims of an elaborate hoax - and look, here's some footage that works as evidence toward that possibility". Skepticism, therefore no potential of gullibility on this matter, right?
Yet you are the one calling me gullible. Another thing that seems foolish of you.

You can easily access footage of anything debunking it.
What do you mean by "it"? If by it, you mean "anything", then please demonstrate your claim by showing the footage that debunks everything you have ever said in your life.

Or by "it", do you specifically mean the video I posted that you will not respond to? If so, how do you know that, if you haven't watched it?


Yes, both sides openly admit the space race was about proving the superiority of capitalism or communism.
You are assuming honesty in both sides of those governments, which is precisely the general subject matter in question. This is a conspiracy thread of government affairs. I know of some people who would call this type of behavior of yours (assuming honesty where honesty is the subject in question) the informal logical fallacy of 'begging the question'.

'Government admittance' does not equal 'your knowledge'. It is possible they lie and you are gullible to it. So please put away your crystal ball, it does not work.

What you are proposing is not a trade agreement. From what I gather, it is an international conspiracy with no rogue parties or governments saying anything.
On the matter of gathering, you are not an effective gatherer of logical possibilities, and it greatly hinders your performance of rationality in this discussion. You ought to gather logical possibilities and factor them into your reasoning before you make short-sighted declarative statements like you have been.

You said "there would be no reason". This is a highly ignorant statement. A deal may be a reason and it is possible such a deal happened. I am not interested in government deals as much as I was to use it to show the foolishness of your statement "there would be no reason".

Also, a reason does not even necessarily need to be present in order for a conspiracy to be true.

At the end of the day, I'm saying these conspiracies could be true, and you haven't proven they are not. You gave a false dichotomy on considering the potential of a conspiracy, and I showed how that was a false dichotomy by providing another possibility. Now you are framing me as if I ought to prove that possibility as reality, but I do not have to, never intended to, and I don't even have the rational burden to. So keep digging all you want.

There is a flat Earth with a massive conspiracy or the Earth is not flat with no conspiracy and daily life depends on it. The Earth is not a perfect sphere, as gravity causes the equator to bulge out a bit. There is no between regarding a flat Earth and a spherical body.
So what? What was your point for saying this at this part of the discussion?

How do you know "gravity" causes the apparent "equator" to "bulge out"? Or are you just assuming it?

The heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9), so be careful with discerning what you actually know, and what you just assume.
 
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Rudometkin

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That is not a dichotomy. Please stop using words you do not understand.
Well, I own several dictionaries, and evidently although my U.S. school system education admittedly does not exceed the 5th grade (whereas I think I saw you claimed to have a badge that declares you are a scientist), I know more about the word "dichotomy" than you do. That is, evidently, it seems to me. You are free to argue otherwise.

But since you are monopolizing the word (I say this because you operate as if you dominate or have total control over the definition of the word "dichotomy"), it is already not looking good for you as far as whether you understand how language even works on a fundamental level. That is, to say, "X is not what this word means!", is to deny that people may validly apply their own meaning to words, and in which, in the extreme case, not even dictionaries can be valid. Since, how could a valid definition start, if it is not valid for people to apply one to a word? Regardless, I did use the word properly according to an established dictionary, so your declaration is silly on perhaps all counts.

Oxford Dictionary:
Dichotomy: a division into two, esp. a sharply defined one.
&
Especially: much more than in other cases.


Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Dichotomy: a division or process of dividing into two esp. mutually exclusive or contradictory groups.

Oxford Dictionary provides a simple definition of dichotomy, meaning 'a division into two'. It follows up with, 'especially, a sharply defined division'. However it also defines 'especially' as "much more than in other cases'. So it fully allows for the 'other cases' to have the basic meaning to be 'division into two'.

Since this obvious use of the language is obviously sourced in an obviously well established dictionary, my use of this following reasoning is obviously completely fair; and your statement that apparently came from ignorance, likely also from your established account of arrogance, is obviously wrong:

Since established dictionaries fundamentally define "dichotomy" as 'dividing into two", and you have divided the potential of NASA faking the moon landing into two possibilities, you have therefore provided a dichotomy according to established dictionaries.

One might think the reason you confidently said I don't understand the word 'dichotomy' is probably because you only understood the more common use of the word.

However, there is an argument that one of the possibilities you provided includes the Soviets doing the deceiving, and the other possibility you provided includes the Soviets ridiculing the U.S. for doing the deceiving. This may be argued to be in itself contradictory (in that they are fundamentally proposed opposites), which would make it a dichotomy in a more common sense of the word as well. But, I find that argument in itself makes a potentially false dichotomy of interpreting your dichotomy.

Also on that note, there is a common phrase, "false-dichotomy" that is used to label an informal logical fallacy of presenting two ideas as if they are the only two possible options in an equation, when there are indeed more possible options.

Cambridge Dictionary:
False Dichotomy: a choice between two things that is presented as if they are the only two possible things.

For this phrase, Cambridge Dictionary defines dichotomy as a presented choice between two things, and the 'false' aspect of the phrase evidently comes from the action of presenting them as if they are the only two options.

According to Cambridge Dictionary, you presented a dichotomy (false one at that) for presenting two possibilities, but there are logically more possibilities that just the two you presented, which I have already provided in this genuine, carefully crafted article-sized response.

No, that is extremely relevant. A trial with no evidence and no motive goes no where.
No it was not relevant, because it was intended as a proposed logical possibility to demonstrate the falseness of your dichotomy. That ship has sailed and has already arrived back to the dock. It turns out, this so-called 'trial' was the evidence itself.

But if you want it to make it relevant, then what exactly do you want it to be relevant to, and how do you justify making it relevant in the context of our conversation?

Again, you clearly have no idea what is a dichotomy.
This message of yours aged worse than milk twelve weeks after it's expiration date. See my justification for my fair and proper use of the word "dichotomy'.

--------------------
I said:
It is a logical possibility because it doesn't contradict any laws of logic. It is logically possible. You didn't leave room for it.

So this answers your question on how you sound ignorant with your dichotomy.

You replied:
You are throwing out random words that do not further your argument.
Which of those words do you claim are random? All of them? Or what? You probably just don't understand them.

For one, that part of the answer of mine was precisely relevant for answering your question and defining my use of the phrase "logical possiblity".

You can claim it is random words, but that doesn't mean your claim of it being "random words" is true. In fact, you provided no basis for your claim. It appears your claim itself is a collection of random words.

I also considered this from another angle. Perhaps not everything I write intends to further my arguments. For example, some words are intended to be questions to help me simply learn more.

But is everything you write intended to further your argument? That is, is your only purpose here to argue? It seems you are subtly telling on yourself. sml

You have one simple task:
Look at you, as if you are the taskmaster. hlf

First, before we get into my supposed task, if you have the authority to distribute a task to me, then it is fair I have the authority to distribute a task to you:

Your task is to write me a particular essay on the word 'Dichotomy'. It must be at least 30 paragraphs. Explain the apparent origin of the word, and cite several established dictionary definitions. Provide and explain several possible fair uses of the word based on each of these definitions.

Actually, I have more tasks for you. To not overwhelm you, here is just one more: Watch the apparent video evidence I showed you, and write an essay on that. Post it in this forum once you have completed it. Make this one a minimum of 60 paragraphs. The narrative of the essay is to be from a position of general skepticism and no biases from either position of the subject - that is, you are to not give an unfair advantage to either side in contemplating whether the moon landing happened.

What is the evidence for a global conspiracy that involves nearly at this point all governments and corporations to fool the entire population without any motive given by you for such a thing. You won't touch that. You will throw out red hearings.


I am not going to insult you.
What are red hearings? I suppose you meant to type "red herrings".

So here is Chihuahua back with the crystal ball making predictions.

What do you mean my task is: "What is the evidence...etc. etc."?

My task is the evidence itself?! or what? what is your 'what'?

I suppose you meant and should have said, "Provide the evidence...". But you didn't say that. You said "What is the evidence" and eventually followed up with predictions, but no question mark. There isn't even a question mark in the passage, so it is not even a proper question. So it is a very confusing passage in itself.

You act like I don't understand the word "dichotomy" so as to criticize me on my use of the English language, yet I have now backed up my use of the word with exceptional precision, and even cited established dictionaries. Meanwhile, your post evidently contains multiple inaccuracies with the English language.

We should be careful to check ourselves before criticizing others. I know that's hard, and we all have surely been found to be hypocrites at times.
  • "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" [Matthew 7:3]
On the subject of providing evidence for "a global conspiracy that involves nearly at this point all governments and corporations to fool the entire population without any motive given by" ...me..."for such a thing", why would I provide evidence for that?

This appears to be a strawman fallacy, as I have been speaking of a conspiracy with the potential motive of taking a large chunk of taxpayer's money. I think your reading comprehension needs work.

Also, note that I have not plainly declared the earth is flat nor that the moon landing didn't happen. So rationally there is no burden of proof on me to provide evidence for those conspiracies, though I am and have been happy to share what I have found.
 

Rudometkin

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I did not say "emotionally", I used the word personally. There is a difference. Someone who just joined the forum yesterday, and speaks as you do, may have other interests, perhaps financial, that cause them to be here. But after all, I am a conspiracy theorist, so maybe I'm just being suspicious.

At your suggestion, I will remove my tin foil hat for a moment and present my other hypothesis.

The way you speak to people suggests you don't have many friends, the shallowness of your arguments suggest you are educated just well enough check the readings and adjust the dials in your laboratory. The face on your badge is probably full of blemishes and void of anything resembling a smile, which probably comes from eating to many hot pockets in mothers basement. Your life is dull and void of meaning, because you have fully embraced the idea that your ancestors swung from trees and one day the sun will explode returning you to the nothingness from which you came. You're insecure, disingenuous and struggle with reading comprehension. And yet you enjoy picking apart another persons grammar because of the wholly imagined sense of superiority you get by belittling others. You presume to have insight into the character and motivations of people you have never met, but are void of character or insight yourself.

I personally do not care much for presumption or making presumptuous statements, but since you started this little game, why not play along?

Of course, I'm probably well wide of the mark in everything I said, and well aware of it. But like yourself, I enjoy being an ahole from time to time. Where you and I differ in this regard, is I know when I'm being a prick, where in your case, its simply the default setting.

This is your second day on the forum, it is my last. I don't like arguments or debate, argument and debate is pretty much all that happens here. You do occasionally meet good and decent people that lift your spirits and sharpen your mind, but rarely. So I've decided to get back into my books and the host of other tangible things that add value to my life, and leave this place behind.

I'd like to say its been a pleasure, but with all my obvious faults, dishonesty is not among their number. Do enjoy your stay.

The final word is yours, make better use of it than you have thus far.

Farewell Chihuahua, the name suits you well.
I was really enjoying your reasoning and your posts. I hope you (we all) are able to find or make peace in the forum, and that you can happily stick around, but I understand your dilemma and decision.

I think it would be a net loss without you here, especially because of how rare your voice is, at least given this topic, which is admittedly all I know you from. Take care and I hope to see you around somewhere.
 

David in NJ

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I fail to see a connection between the freedom found through faith in Christ and believing debunked theories.


I am not necessarily sure of that. A neonate that dies is ignorant of God's word. Really, this has nothing to do with a false-science theory that the earth is flat.


I am sure Satan makes denial of a flat Earth a high priority.
I am sure Satan makes denial of a flat Earth a high priority.


And you are blind to that fact as well - which is why you are here - God wants you to be set free

1 John 5:19
 
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David in NJ

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I fail to see a connection between the freedom found through faith in Christ and believing debunked theories.


I am not necessarily sure of that. A neonate that dies is ignorant of God's word. Really, this has nothing to do with a false-science theory that the earth is flat.


I am sure Satan makes denial of a flat Earth a high priority.
The damning videos exposing NASA have been SCRUBBED from the Internet

Replaced with "experts" denying what was exposed = satan's high priority
 
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Psalm-147:3

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For a conspiracy to work only few know the truth.

When it's about cosmology tens of thousand (if not more) must deliberately lie.

In your theory you must believe that all astronauts who have been in space are liars.

There always be some with a conscience.

Other than that, Russia, China and other anti Western countries have a vested interest to debunk NASA, ESA. Instead they follow suit, China and India do moon exploration, Russia and US are still cooperating on ISS.

You paint a story as if we are living in the movie of the Matrix with the devil as the architect, meaning we live a life that is not real, but fake.

Love.
For a conspiracy to work only few know the truth.

When it's about cosmology tens of thousand (if not more) must deliberately lie.

In your theory you must believe that all astronauts who have been in space are liars.

There always be some with a conscience.

Other than that, Russia, China and other anti Western countries have a vested interest to debunk NASA, ESA. Instead they follow suit, China and India do moon exploration, Russia and US are still cooperating on ISS.

You paint a story as if we are living in the movie of the Matrix with the devil as the architect, meaning we live a life that is not real, but fake.

Love.
Why do you believe Man over God?

For a conspiracy to work only few know the truth.

When it's about cosmology tens of thousand (if not more) must deliberately lie.

In your theory you must believe that all astronauts who have been in space are liars.

There always be some with a conscience.

Other than that, Russia, China and other anti Western countries have a vested interest to debunk NASA, ESA. Instead they follow suit, China and India do moon exploration, Russia and US are still cooperating on ISS.

You paint a story as if we are living in the movie of the Matrix with the devil as the architect, meaning we live a life that is not real, but fake.

Love.
Why do you believe Man over God?

1. Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
 

Psalm-147:3

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Do I need to ask GOD if water boils at 100 degrees Celsius ?
Do I need to ask GOD if there are 360 degrees in a circle ?
Do I need to ask GOD what the value of Pi to 4 decimal places is ?
No to all because He has given us the ability to work that out for ourselves using His gift to us of plain simple logic.
Now what does PLAIN SIMPLE logic indicate when Canada sees the South Star yet Argentina does not ?
The Earth is a GLOBE & not flat :) << Plain simple GOD given logic :)
Job 38, 1Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
 

David in NJ

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Job 38, 1Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
The Glory of God's Word and how HE ties together Genesis , Job 38 with Jeremiah 31:35-37 and Isaiah 60:2 and more

God's Word is 100% Dependable TRUTH that has never changed and can never be overcome by satan's lies.

God Bless you Today in His Spirit and in His Love and in His Grace
 

ProDeo

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Why do you believe Man over God?

I really don't.

1. Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Passage does not say the Earth is flat.

Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

So, from the North Pole the Lord stretches out the heavens and sees a flat earth, like we learned from the atlas in the classroom.
 
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GodsGrace

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I'm not proud of a single word I said to him, and I'm sure I'll be repenting later in prayer. But I already hit the button, and I'm not going to delete the post.

This place brings me down and brings out the worst in me. It reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain
"Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig likes it."

I try very hard to be kind,
especially with those whom I have disagreement with, but its exhausting for me, which tells me that whatever I'm doing here, is not being done in the Spirit.

But that's just my experience, I'm sure that there are others who are called to be here and God uses them. I'm not one of them, this is definitely not my ministry, or even somewhere I feel comfortable being. Too much debate, too much arguing, far too little rejoicing, far too little agreement in the Spirit.

Take care rvmb

God bless and Godpeed
Hey Archie
I've had occasion to interact with you but, quite frankly, I can't remember when or if we agreed or disagreed.
I'd like to say this:
I don't know if a Forum is a ministry...I guess it could be.
I do know for sure that people post on here and some things that get posted are pretty odd.
I think a good reason to post is so that anyone reading along can read about a post that is different from one another member posts.
For instance, I think the reformed faith is lacking the gospel.
The posts tend to be stating that a person cannot be saved unless God wants them to be.
So I think it's a good idea to declare that anyone could be saved that wants to be saved.

So I'm hoping you don't leave Forums altogether - even if we don't agree on something or other -which, I really don't remember or care.

We should treat each other with kindness and some respect.
And maybe we shouldn't interact with those that are unable to do this.
 

ProDeo

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A round Earth is not something from the 20th century, c.q. NASA.


Spherical Earth or Earth's curvature refers to the approximation of the figure of the Earth as a sphere. The earliest documented mention of the concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it appears in the writings of Greek philosophers.[1][2] In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference. This knowledge was gradually adopted throughout the Old World during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, displacing earlier beliefs in a flat Earth.[3][4][5][6] A practical demonstration of Earth's sphericity was achieved by Ferdinand Magellan and Juan Sebastián Elcano's circumnavigation (1519–1522).[7]

Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

The prophet Isaiah is notable from the 8th century BC, much earlier than the wisdom of the old Greeks :woohoo!:
 
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GodsGrace

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The message being that the time of Israel's being a chosen nation as a light upon a hill, was limited and coming to an end. Which by Jeremiah, He declared to them.

As for the end of Israel--there is no end, but only an end to their being a light unto the nations. Which they were physically, not spiritually, but indeed pointing to the coming of those things being spiritually fulfilled in Christ and by those in Christ to follow during the times of the gentiles. Therefore He said, "for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. (for the remaining half of time--half of seven times)"
But it was also spiritual....
Israel was a chosen nation...
and a light, as you've said - a spiritual light.

Romans 9:6-8
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not
all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the
children of the promise are regarded as descendants.


I might be getting what you're saying conflated with the above.

IOW, God's promises were made through Israel...
spiritual promises.

And, yes, they are spiritually fulfilled in Christ.
 

GodsGrace

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A round Earth is not something from the 20th century, c.q. NASA.


Spherical Earth or Earth's curvature refers to the approximation of the figure of the Earth as a sphere. The earliest documented mention of the concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it appears in the writings of Greek philosophers.[1][2] In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference. This knowledge was gradually adopted throughout the Old World during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, displacing earlier beliefs in a flat Earth.[3][4][5][6] A practical demonstration of Earth's sphericity was achieved by Ferdinand Magellan and Juan Sebastián Elcano's circumnavigation (1519–1522).[7]

Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

The prophet Isaiah is notable from the 8th century BC, much earlier than the wisdom of the old Greeks :woohoo!:
Didn't Magellan confirm that the earth is round?

Let's ask Gemini:

I got this, which is what YOU are saying above....

No single person "discovered" the Earth is a globe; it was a gradual realization by ancient Greek philosophers, notably Pythagoras (6th Century BCE) for proposing it and Aristotle (4th Century BCE) for providing strong observational evidence like the Earth's round shadow during lunar eclipses and changing constellations at different latitudes. Later, Eratosthenes (3rd Century BCE) even calculated its circumference with remarkable accuracy.

Let's try another way:
OK
Got this....


No, Ferdinand Magellan didn't discover the Earth is round; ancient Greeks knew this, but his expedition provided the first tangible proof by completing the first circumnavigation (sailing around it) from 1519-1522, proving it was a sphere and not flat. The successful return of his ship, the Victoria, to Spain after Magellan's death, definitively showed that one could sail west and end up back where they started.


He PROVED earth is a sphere and not flat by demonstrating that one could sail west and end up back where they started.


Interestingly, I posed a question TWO TIMES regarding a flight leaving NY,,,headed east,,,and ending up back in NY.
With a flat earth, the plane would have to make a U-TURN and head back to NY...or, fly off the flat earth.

No reply to my question.
Must be too easy.
 
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